List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2023

[well left]

Having lunch with his old man in the next 2 weeks - any questions

A couple:

Is he thinking about coming home?
How does he feel about black and white stripes?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[legendstatus]

A couple:

Is he thinking about coming home?
How does he feel about black and white stripes?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Big Geelong family for obvious reason but done

 

[KinderSmock]

Of course they're joking.

Tom Mitchell and Jakob Ryan for Moaning Moping Henry was a great deal. Not many walked away from that deal unhappy.

 

[KinderSmock]

This.

There’s still a gap in our list in the 22-26 range.

Daicos, IQ, Lippa, Murphy, Hill.

Good, but not an inspiring list.

We need to regenerate over the next two off seasons and target players in this range. Hence why I wouldn’t be against giving up our first for someone like Bergman.

Can't forget Carmichael, Ruscoe and Bianco who all offer something at AFL level when given the chance. Ah wait, I forget that according to our BigFooty list managers, Bianco and Ruscoe will be off the list by the end of the year.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Tom Mitchell and Jakob Ryan for Moaning Moping Henry was a great deal. Not many walked away from that deal unhappy.

We did lose out as a club by a reduction in the key metric of “Aggro Jazz Hands”. Good thing Mason can make up for some of the shortfall.

 

[Mollythedolly]

With the addition of McStay and Frampton last off season and the continued emergence of both Murphy and Johnson should Himmelberg be a priority use of our salary cap space?

If those within the club knew Johnson was going to jump ship for a larger payday or the body of Mihocek was a ticking time bomb you could justify the move but outside of that targeting an A grade midfielder around that 26/27 years age group is probably a wiser move with all of Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Mitchell, Adams and Crisp 30+ come next year.

The one caveat is that if we go on and win the flag or fall painfully short once again history says we'll go looking for anyone that is realistically available and can improve us in the short term.

If that happens to be Himmelberg and not a mid then so be it. Better not be another Beams like mistake however.

P.S- With Tasmania now a go it's important we keep one eye on our future and make sure we invest in enough draft capital in the coming years so we aren't left short for quality young talent when draft concessions inevitably begin.

HH would be coming as a FA so doesn't impact our draft capacity other than his occupation of a list spot meaning we'd take 1 less pick at the draft table.

 

[KinderSmock]

HH would be coming as a FA so doesn't impact our draft capacity other than his occupation of a list spot meaning we'd take 1 less pick at the draft table.

Given we have four picks this year, I would be surprised to see us bundle up a handful and offer them up.

1x first rounder
2x second rounder

We have the capital to turn that into

2x first rounders or better.

 

[Mollythedolly]

This is our 22-26 players

Beau
Bianco
Kelly
Murphy
Richards
IQ
Carmichael
Kreuger
Josh Daicos
Lippa
Johnson
Wilson
Noble
Frampton
Maynard

And Hill.

While the 3 highlighted may be under pressure to continue with us beyond 2023, and the next wave (Macrae, Dean, and Ruscoe are the 21yo's who will be 22 in 2024) is also a little questionable, that's still a pretty healthy cohort available to play senior footy with 8-9 current best 22 performers.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Given we have four picks this year, I would be surprised to see us bundle up a handful and offer them up.

1x first rounder
2x second rounder

We have the capital to turn that into

2x first rounders or better.

Don't have any picks until we start to shed players to activate them. Be very interesting to see how hard we want to hit the draft.

 

[JOELY]

Given we have four picks this year, I would be surprised to see us bundle up a handful and offer them up.

1x first rounder
2x second rounder

We have the capital to turn that into

2x first rounders or better.

We only have one second rounder. Last year we traded ours for Carlton's, which looks like a nice move right now.

 

[JOELY]

And our first rounder. No? Don't think we traded our first rounder out.

Still have that

 

[partypie]

Himmelberg the swingman is no selling point for me. If you fork out what he's going to cost you'd damn sure wanna know where you intend on playing him.

I don't see a role up forward for him. He's only marginally better than McStay by that position.

Defence is where we could use more tall players but I would have expected cheap depth rather than top price.

It makes for an interesting rumour and not sure how I feel about it one-way or another.

If we were looking at someone for GWS I'd be in Jake Riccardi's ear.

Turning 24 in in November, never really gotten a consistent run at it with the Giants but has still shown be can play a bit at either end at different times. If we decide to bail on Kelly which imo is looking more likely as the season progresses then Riccardi as a reclamation project might be worth considering.

 

[partypie]

Given we have four picks this year, I would be surprised to see us bundle up a handful and offer them up.

1x first rounder
2x second rounder

We have the capital to turn that into

2x first rounders or better.

We only have two picks in the first three rounds, currently picks 18 and 23.

Hopefully both picks remain exactly where they are currently at seasons end, for different reasons...

 

[KinderSmock]

We only have one second rounder. Last year we traded ours for Carlton's, which looks like a nice move right now.

Ah, sorry.

 

[3rdMan]

I actually think this helps us. It means heavy draft concessions for one team, scooping up the cream of the talent. Meaning it'll be harder for the other teams in the bottom half to bounce back through topline picks. Plus Tassie will be a fertile poaching ground.

I think GC and GWS entry into the comp was a factor in the Cats being able to stay up for so long - bottoming out didn't come with a bounce when you didn't get top picks for doing so. So the stronger teams that were better placed to develop their recruits didn't get overtaken by the sheer talent that the other teams - excpet the expansion teams -were able to bring in.

Agreed. It's going to make it more difficult for bottom teams to improve, and Tas will take time, just like Giants and Suns did.

We do need to keep refreshing our list though. As a team entering contention, we're not as young as you'd want for sustained success.

 

[3rdMan]

Himmelberg the swingman is no selling point for me. If you fork out what he's going to cost you'd damn sure wanna know where you intend on playing him.

I don't see a role up forward for him. He's only marginally better than McStay by that position.

Defence is where we could use more tall players but I would have expected cheap depth rather than top price.

It makes for an interesting rumour and not sure how I feel about it one-way or another.

What are we currently paying our defensive talls? Only Moore would be on significant money as a long term prospect.

I consider quality taller defenders to be more important than forwards. In terms of salary outlay, you can afford to have two on pretty good coin and we have a spot close to opening up there with Howe getting on.

Himmelberg is a fairly similar type to Howe and a good option as replacement. I'd prefer someone younger right now, but if we're looking at free agents then 27+ is what you're going to get.

 

[partypie]

What are we currently paying our defensive talls? Only Moore would be on significant money as a long term prospect.

I consider quality taller defenders to be more important than forwards. In terms of salary outlay, you can afford to have two on pretty good coin and we have a spot close to opening up there with Howe getting on.

Himmelberg is a fairly similar type to Howe and a good option as replacement. I'd prefer someone younger right now, but if we're looking at free agents then 27+ is what you're going to get.

If his price starts pushing up towards 800-900k over 4-5 years then I'm taking a pass personally.

He's clearly a $600k per year type imo (and he'll realise probably a "hidden" $50-100k on top of that depending on where he lands just from moving away from Sydney), but the FA market is going to push that asking price up significantly.

 

[soreplums]

If his price starts pushing up towards 800-900k over 4-5 years then I'm taking a pass personally.

He's clearly a $600k per year type imo (and he'll realise probably a "hidden" $50-100k on top of that depending on where he lands just from moving away from Sydney), but the FA market is going to push that asking price up significantly.

Cost if living in Melbourne is cheaper apparently so we can shave $$ off any offer

 

[partypie]

Cost if living in Melbourne is cheaper apparently so we can shave $$ off any offer

That's what I meant by the "hidden $50-100k" - probably $50k a year cheaper to live in Melbourne and $100k cheaper if he goes to SA.

(or he could live a $50-100k more expensive lifestyle moving to VIC or SA for the same $$$ he's chewing through up in Sydney now, if that's how he wants to look at it)

 

[stormskye]

What are we currently paying our defensive talls? Only Moore would be on significant money as a long term prospect.

I consider quality taller defenders to be more important than forwards. In terms of salary outlay, you can afford to have two on pretty good coin and we have a spot close to opening up there with Howe getting on.

Himmelberg is a fairly similar type to Howe and a good option as replacement. I'd prefer someone younger right now, but if we're looking at free agents then 27+ is what you're going to get.

I think an elite intercept like Moore on good coin is needed, but I think then a more budget KPd works well, like we’ve had in Dunn, roughy etc. I’d prefer the other big $ be left for a mid or KPF. Just my opinion though

 

[live fast pieyoung]

If we were looking at someone for GWS I'd be in Jake Riccardi's ear.

Turning 24 in in November, never really gotten a consistent run at it with the Giants but has still shown be can play a bit at either end at different times. If we decide to bail on Kelly which imo is looking more likely as the season progresses then Riccardi as a reclamation project might be worth considering.

too slow, cant jump

 

[legendstatus]

too slow, cant jump

Harsh? think Riccardi and Georgiades types at the right price are the type of players ( like AJ) that could thrive in the right environment

I’m not expecting a HH or a Naughton to land with us, we just dont do those deals and not in a position to.

 

[stormskye]

Lipinski and frampton are two that have proved there is talent in the vfl not playing on other lists for varied reasons. I’d still be looking there and not writing anyone off because they aren’t playing seniors. I still say no to himmelberg because his price will be too much. We need an elite mid in the mid 20’s range as pendles, adams, Mitchell aren’t getting any younger. You can get away with a moneyball KPD, a mid is a different story.

 

[live fast pieyoung]

Harsh? think Riccardi and Georgiades types at the right price are the type of players ( like AJ) that could thrive in the right environment

I’m not expecting a HH or a Naughton to land with us, we just dont do those deals and not in a position to.

hes not awful, just not the right profile for our list Id say. I think he could make an alright fullback because hes strong. but if im honest I cant see him in a premiership 23, but i definitely could see AJ in one

 

[windchimes]

Harry Himmelberg, while a good player, wouldn’t seem to make sense for us as a deal, imo. He wants $800k + per year, no? We have too many similar sorts (particularly AJ, who’s showing heaps of promise himself) to be spunking that sort of money up for him.

HH would be on the same money as De Goey. If we recruit a key position player on that sort of cashola, they just have to be an elite level specialist key forward (not many of them available) or it’s not really worth it.