List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2023

[Jen2310]

if hes good enough for afl level he will go past one of them next year,
plus they are both getting on, likely to have some injuries

Fin's just been unfortunate this is the year Adams isn't injured. Thats not guaranteed to stay the course next year.

 

[Bianconeri]

Fly’s policy is to play them when they’re ready. So your guess has little veracity.

More reason for Macrae to move a club that will develop him in the ones.

 

[No SPIN]

More reason for Macrae to move a club that will develop him in the ones.

Macrae would be smart enough to know the Clubs plans for him. And I’d say your assertion that we have no plans to play him, is not what Fly has been speaking to him about throughout the season.

 

[swoop42]

Fly for all of his assistant experience is still only a 2nd year senior AFL coach and in the years ahead might well change or soften some of his views when it comes to his coaching philosophy.

Right now our position on the ladder reinforces the decisions we've made about selection but if we fail to win it all I'd be surprised if we don't question whether we made the right choice playing some of our veterans for 20+ H&A games in preference of giving a player like a Macrae an opportunity to cover for them here and there.

The media often ponder it but I wonder whether we'll ever see a coach be brave enough to make the call to only play certain players for 15 or so H&A games each season?

Feels like a good way to extend the playing life of your best most experienced, you could set them for the start and end of the H&A season/finals and tactically expose your youth on more occasions throughout the middle part of the season.

Winning regularly would obviously help the coach reach this decision and for the fans to accept it.

Regularly lose when your not meant to be in rebuild mode however and good luck getting any coach or fan to embrace this mindset.

 

[sr36]

Our midfield could fall off a cliff as early as next year.

Our midfield isn't going to fall off a cliff next year.There's a weakness around centre square stoppage, but we've got strong midfield depth within the team and Nick will continue to improve his stoppage game.

 

[legendstatus]

I can see Reef, Allen and even Carmy stepping up but hold no hope for Macrae, happy to get a 3rd or 4th for him - would’ve played minutes by now

Think we move McCreery to the middle next year as well

 

[AmericanMustard]

I still standby I don’t see why we would consider trading Finn. His value is rock bottom and at best it’s a third round pick. Geelong have shown time and time again there’s no need to trade contracted players (even though they’re complete hypocrites).

At worst he plays no games next year and he goes for nothing which is basically what we’re getting this year, middle ground is he plays, shows a little and increases his value, at best he actually plays, looks good and stays on.

Fwiw I’m far from sold on him and he’s 22 next year and if he was good enough he would have played by now given we desperately need some mids. Sure maybe he’ll kick up a stink but I’m certain we can weather the storm of a contracted 21 year old who’s not happy and may try to move.

 

[Sub_Zero]

haven't seen Liam Henry play, is he someone we should go after?

 

[Jen2310]

haven't seen Liam Henry play, is he someone we should go after?

He's a speedy wingman.
But I imagine there will be lots of interest in him.
I can see Hill being the one that could transition on the wing, so I don't see need for Henry at this stage.

 

[Bianconeri]

At worst he plays no games next year and he goes for nothing which is basically what we’re getting this year, middle ground is he plays, shows a little and increases his value, at best he actually plays, looks good and stays on.

At worst we have a disgruntled player in the VFL with no pathway to the AFL team that feels harshly done by and cause division in our playing group and wards
off other draftees from committing to us long term.

For the sake of cohesion in the group and our reputation when it comes to dealing with players we’re better off not holding a non required players here against their will.

 

[sr36]

I still standby I don’t see why we would consider trading Finn. His value is rock bottom and at best it’s a third round pick. Geelong have shown time and time again there’s no need to trade contracted players (even though they’re complete hypocrites).

At worst he plays no games next year and he goes for nothing which is basically what we’re getting this year, middle ground is he plays, shows a little and increases his value, at best he actually plays, looks good and stays on.

Fwiw I’m far from sold on him and he’s 22 next year and if he was good enough he would have played by now given we desperately need some mids. Sure maybe he’ll kick up a stink but I’m certain we can weather the storm of a contracted 21 year old who’s not happy and may try to move.

Third round pick is what he'd go for I think - you can trade a 3rd round pick for a bloke with a decent chance of stepping into the team, which he might be at some clubs. I don't think Macrae is a great list fit for us as I suspect that Mitchell and Adams will still be playing 2025 and we shouldn't add another mid without acceleration into the team before then and he won't wait until after then - if he really is good enough - I'm skeptical on that bit though.

 

[Scodog10]

Third round pick is what he'd go for I think - you can trade a 3rd round pick for a bloke with a decent chance of stepping into the team, which he might be at some clubs. I don't think Macrae is a great list fit for us as I suspect that Mitchell and Adams will still be playing 2025 and we shouldn't add another mid without acceleration into the team before then and he won't wait until after then - if he really is good enough - I'm skeptical on that bit though.

His biggest issue and it’s the one you’ve touched on previously is he’s a one position player. For all the detractors (myself included because his decision making for an experienced player is mind numbing at times) Adams has had a strong year in a predominantly forward role. If I were to guess I’d say his stoppage numbers forward of centre have been elite and I know his goal assist numbers are because he’s top 5 league wide. Macrae isn’t doing that.

I’m less sure about Mitchell. I’m sure he’ll be around in 2025, but the question is will he be around like Hannebery in 2022 or Pendles this year? It’s the constant going to ground that has me second guessing his spot in the side in 2024 and beyond. If Macrae’s retained I think replacing Mitchell is his path to senior footy. He’s a long way off it currently because he needs to be high production in that role to improve us. He’s not even high production at VFL level so how does he do it v Bont/ Oliver/ Cripps/ Dawson/ Dunkley etc? A 21yo Mitchell playing at that level would be putting up 40+ each week on his ear.

It’s a case of buyer beware on Macrae and I’d have him well down the pecking order if I were a prospective club recruiting him. My pecking order on market value at VFL would be:

1. McInnes
2. Daylight
3. Bianco
4. Ruscoe
5. Carmichael/ Macrae

McInnes needs patience because it’s there, but he struggles to put it together at senior level and most likely never will (I call it the Tyler’s). Bianco is small, slow and doesn’t really have a position. Ruscoe has issues with competitiveness and concentration (Langdon without the closing speed or amazing dukes). Carmichael has the Treloar hack it on at all costs mentality without any of the other traits that made Treloar a gun.

 

[gerryg400]

His biggest issue and it’s the one you’ve touched on previously is he’s a one position player. For all the detractors (myself included because his decision making for an experienced player is mind numbing at times) Adams has had a strong year in a predominantly forward role. If I were to guess I’d say his stoppage numbers forward of centre have been elite and I know his goal assist numbers are because he’s top 5 league wide. Macrae isn’t doing that.

I’m less sure about Mitchell. I’m sure he’ll be around in 2025, but the question is will he be around like Hannebery in 2022 or Pendles this year? It’s the constant going to ground that has me second guessing his spot in the side in 2024 and beyond. If Macrae’s retained I think replacing Mitchell is his path to senior footy. He’s a long way off it currently because he needs to be high production in that role to improve us. He’s not even high production at VFL level so how does he do it v Bont/ Oliver/ Cripps/ Dawson/ Dunkley etc? A 21yo Mitchell playing at that level would be putting up 40+ each week on his ear.

It’s a case of buyer beware on Macrae and I’d have him well down the pecking order if I were a prospective club recruiting him. My pecking order on market value at VFL would be:

1. McInnes
2. Daylight
3. Bianco
4. Ruscoe
5. Carmichael/ Macrae

McInnes needs patience because it’s there, but he struggles to put it together at senior level and most likely never will (I call it the Tyler’s). Bianco is small, slow and doesn’t really have a position. Ruscoe has issues with competitiveness and concentration (Langdon without the closing speed or amazing dukes). Carmichael has the Treloar hack it on at all costs mentality without any of the other traits that made Treloar a gun.

So with Daylight, I don’t watch any VFL, can he play as a flanker or is he a one position player too?

 

[JuniorB]

So with Daylight, I don’t watch any VFL, can he play as a flanker or is he a one position player too?

He can't play night games, so he'll be a bust.

 

[sr36]

His biggest issue and it’s the one you’ve touched on previously is he’s a one position player. For all the detractors (myself included because his decision making for an experienced player is mind numbing at times) Adams has had a strong year in a predominantly forward role. If I were to guess I’d say his stoppage numbers forward of centre have been elite and I know his goal assist numbers are because he’s top 5 league wide. Macrae isn’t doing that.

And when that one position is midfield - you've got to be extremely good. I think people who think it would be a big deal if we lost him are underestimating how good he has to become to be a pure mid in a quality team - which is what we need to be aiming for. You just look at the midfielders in the top teams and he's not close to tracking to become as good as the mids who will be playing finals.

 

[Scodog10]

So with Daylight, I don’t watch any VFL, can he play as a flanker or is he a one position player too?

JB nailed it he’ll struggle in the night games, but he’s a genuine chance to be absolutely everywhere early season and on GF day

Unfortunately I just don’t rate the smalls at VFL level that haven’t played senior footy this year (could chuck Draper into that mix as well). Another way to look at it is who of that group would you be interested in if they were playing VFL footy for say Sydney or Carlton? I’m tipping none of them would jump out at you except maybe McInnes if he were at a club that gets plenty of VFL exposure. He’s a bit like Johnson in that he can do things that will turn your head, but lacks the consistency to put it together across 4 quarters. My guess is it’s a mixture of fitness, confidence and perhaps role.

 

[Big Bryza]

Ruscoe, Kelly and Murley are all near certainties to go. Perhaps Begg as well.

Bianco, Carmichael and Macrae are probably seeking other opportunities.

These 2 should be backing themselves in to displace the older midfield brigade next season.

You only get one chance to play for a club like Collingwood. If you want to run off and play for an also ran then, see you, bye.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Is the idea that all our VFL players are disgruntled and want to leave due to lack of opportunity a Collingwood exclusive thing? lol

Like, how do all these other teams keep their fringe players without an issue but all of ours seem to be on the way out...according to BigFooty pundits at least anyway

 

[manicpie]

Is the idea that all our VFL players are disgruntled and want to leave due to lack of opportunity a Collingwood exclusive thing? lol

Like, how do all these other teams keep their fringe players without an issue but all of ours seem to be on the way out...according to BigFooty pundits at least anyway

It's crazy, I've said it before, we won't be giving away all our depth, we would be the only club to do so. Fin might go but Reef, Carmicheal and Bianco will stay

 

[Scodog10]

Is the idea that all our VFL players are disgruntled and want to leave due to lack of opportunity a Collingwood exclusive thing? lol

Like, how do all these other teams keep their fringe players without an issue but all of ours seem to be on the way out...according to BigFooty pundits at least anyway

I don’t think they’re disgruntled it’s more that the writings on the wall. Bianco, Draper, Ruscoe and Carmichael are all off contract and we’re now at the point where they’re beholden to what happens at the trade table. The expectation would be that their manager is hustling to find them a new home.

Macrae’s slightly different because we don’t have a good gauge on what the clubs thinking on him is and he could be “disgruntled”. If he is though that says more for him than the club because he hasn’t done enough in 2023 to be disgruntled.

The only one that’s had reasons to be a bit salty is AJ. He’s been handled poorly the past 6 weeks by getting dropped on the back of good form and then getting recalled only to go out the very next week. That’s tough. Even Ginnivan has been treated well from my perspective because he’s only just turned the corner and his behaviour post 2022 was shit.

 

[KinderSmock]

Agree with the first part, I think this is spot on. I’m sure the other three mentioned are looking but I hope Finn stays, our aging mids are getting slower he would slot in nicely to that inside mid spot. Future starting mids, Finn, Nick and Ed Allan. Bobby getting mid time with the bull dozer Beau and as someone mentioned, sorry I don’t know who, imagine IQ in that midfield, what a beast.
I’m not as down on our future players as I thought, our forwards are iffy depending on what the club chooses to do with Steene and Begg key positions or second rucks.

Just one out of left field, I’d be trying to get Eyre onto our main list he’s definitely got promise, kicking needs improvement but it’s not terrible.

Macrae needs to play next year if he is to stay but don't blame him leaving.

Steene has a future as a forward, I'm not sure about Begg.

Bianco won't be named as an emergency this week so I suspect he'll start looking elsewhere. Nobody will be left from our 2019 draft class by the end of the season.

Carmichael will likely be retained should he wish to stay.

I feel the same way about Eyre and to be honest, I'm starting to notice him step up in the VFL more and more. They're giving him the minutes. If we sign him, it'd be more height, too.

IN: Eyre, 2-3x draft, 1-2x trade
OUT: Kelly, Ruscoe, Bianco*, Murley and Begg

Needs: ruck, taller players, wingmen.

*=may be re-rookied.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

The only one that’s had reasons to be a bit salty is AJ. He’s been handled poorly the past 6 weeks by getting dropped on the back of good form and then getting recalled only to go out the very next week. That’s tough. Even Ginnivan has been treated well from my perspective because he’s only just turned the corner and his behaviour post 2022 was s**t.

He hasn't been handled badly.
He was going to be dropped for our preferred mix, but injuries to Checkers & Cameron saved his spot.

So its fair to say he is first man up in the fwd line....but only through injuries at this stage.
With Howe going fwd, he's probably one more back in the queue.

He hasn't done enough to be considered 'unlucky'. Nor harshly treated.
In the same way you say Macrae hasn't done enough as a mid.

 

[KinderSmock]

Is the idea that all our VFL players are disgruntled and want to leave due to lack of opportunity a Collingwood exclusive thing? lol

Like, how do all these other teams keep their fringe players without an issue but all of ours seem to be on the way out...according to BigFooty pundits at least anyway

You're always going to have players perfectly content to bide their time. Maybe Bianco will?

 

[Couch Coach]

Macrae needs to play next year if he is to stay but don't blame him leaving.

Steene has a future as a forward, I'm not sure about Begg.

Bianco won't be named as an emergency this week so I suspect he'll start looking elsewhere. Nobody will be left from our 2019 draft class by the end of the season.

Carmichael will likely be retained should he wish to stay.

I feel the same way about Eyre and to be honest, I'm starting to notice him step up in the VFL more and more. They're giving him the minutes. If we sign him, it'd be more height, too.

IN: Eyre, 2-3x draft, 1-2x trade
OUT: Kelly, Ruscoe, Bianco*, Murley and Begg

Needs: ruck, taller players, wingmen.

*=may be re-rookied.

Noble needs to be elevated from the rookie list doesn't he?
Not sure if AJ needs to be elevated?
Wilson has had his max years on cat b so will probably go.
Murley and Begg are rookies so they don't create draft/trade spots.

Departures:
Main List: Kelly, Ruscoe, Richards (to rookie). Possibly Bianco/Draper.
Rookies: Murley. Possibly Begg/Carmichael.
Cat B: Wilson

In:
Main List: Noble?, AJ?
Rookies: Richards, Markov (no longer LTI replacement)
Cat B:

EDIT: Markov was an injury replacement for Dean so probably needs to come onto the rookie list forone of the promoted players.

 

[sr36]

It's crazy, I've said it before, we won't be giving away all our depth, we would be the only club to do so. Fin might go but Reef, Carmicheal and Bianco will stay

Lists are 42. I think we've got 36 signed, all of whom would be considered senior players or depth - except probably Steene. There's a senior squad of 35. We might pick up a couple of project players who are miles off, but if we cut depth guys like Carmichael, Bianco, Ruscoe, Kelly etc.. most of them will be replaced with other guys who will become our depth - and might be more likely to become more than that, or alternatively more game plan/list need suitable depth.