List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2023

[magpies42]

I like the idea of Baku as a Howe replacement at half the price of Doedee without the injury concerns.
Replaces Ruscoe, Kelly and Wilson playing bigger than his size as a Utility who can play forward or back.
I'd throw our 1st at Gold coast for Hollands, they need points and list spots.
Make a reasonable offer to James Jordan
And see what Hawks would want for Granger-Barrass
I back our development program.

Why would Gold Coast accept our first for Hollands??

 

[KinderSmock]

We didn’t trade our second to Carlton for Richards?

No we traded our second to Carlton as we didn't need it because Richards was going to be available later.

 

[KinderSmock]

Why would Gold Coast accept our first for Hollands??

Agree here. Our first this year is Pick 20+. That's not a good deal for them at all.

 

[Apex36]

We didn’t trade our second to Carlton for Richards?

No we traded our second for Carlton’s 2023 second rounder.

 

[stormskye]

No we traded our second for Carlton’s 2023 second rounder.

Yeah that’s what I meant. We haven’t even used Carlton’s second so it’s a bit early to call the trade a fail.

 

[Apex36]

Yeah that’s what I meant. We haven’t even used Carlton’s second so it’s a bit early to call the trade a fail.

In terms of draft value it’s a failure. A worse/equal pick in a shallow draft. But you’re right in that it shouldn’t be judged a failure until we actually do something with it. Hopefully we’re able to find a gem.

 

[adammania9]

Why would Gold Coast accept our first for Hollands??

Agree here. Our first this year is Pick 20+. That's not a good deal for them at all.

Hollands ain’t going for a first rounder haha. The Suns would jump at that deal. They won’t throw him away but they don’t rate him. He’s been poor even at VFL level while his other depth teammates have dominated.

 

[Quicky]

There was an article a while back or perhaps I heard it on SEN that they shopped him around last year and are expected to do so again as they view him as a third tall and not a kpd - thus with Sicili there's no place for him.

We need a third tall in defence.

 

[No SPIN]

No, Begg's ruck craft is awful. Regularly beaten by a country mile by VFL-level ruckmen. Oscar overtook him by the end of the season. Begg, if he has a future, will be a KPP. And that's a big if. I wouldn't be surprised if we chopped him at the end of the year and found some VFL ruck to fill his place. His best skill is tackling.

I suggest you go and watch his game against Rich in the first VFL final - he changed a lot of minds that day.

 

[manicpie]

Hollands ain’t going for a first rounder haha. The Suns would jump at that deal. They won’t throw him away but they don’t rate him. He’s been poor even at VFL level while his other depth teammates have dominated.

Hollands would be gettable with a second rounder. GC are maxed in the salary cap and would move him on for a second rounder

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

I suggest you go and watch his game against Rich in the first VFL final - he changed a lot of minds that day.

He was very impressive in that match.

 

[stormskye]

Hollands would be gettable with a second rounder. GC are maxed in the salary cap and would move him on for a second rounder

What’s his knock? Is he better than macrae? Or just another stephens from syd? Think lots of us look to much at where they were picked rather than where they are now

 

[manicpie]

What’s his knock? Is he better than macrae? Or just another stephens from syd? Think lots of us look to much at where they were picked rather than where they are now

I'm not sure about what's holding him back but he took a bit longer than usual to gain confidence in his knee and it would be hard to break into the GC midfield atm. It could be just a case of not settling into GC.
It probably didn't help having our man Flanders hit the sort of form he did either

 

[BEEG]

I love how we got Carlton 2nd and of course it was a bust.

One day hopefully a pick trade works for us hasn't been great since the Treloar trade.

 

[Anzacday]

I love how we got Carlton 2nd and of course it was a bust.

One day hopefully a pick trade works for us hasn't been great since the Treloar trade.

We gave GWS our 2023 2nd for Bobby and our 2023 3rd for Frampton.
We got a 2nd for Grundy and one for Mitchell, having traded our original one to GCS the year before.
Trading out one of our 2022 2nds was to get back into this year and we used the other one on Jakob Ryan.
I don’t see at as a bust, particularly if we finish above Carlton, (just wish they finished outside the 8).

 

[KinderSmock]

I suggest you go and watch his game against Rich in the first VFL final - he changed a lot of minds that day.

It's one game, not a season. We can't sign kids on the premise of one ressie game. He played well as a forward against Richmond, not so much a ruck.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Looks like we after Tom doedie or however you spell it

I’d be stoked with an off-season of Khamis and Doedee

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

He'd be in there... he kicked 41 goals... They'd shuffle around a few but hes in there. Don't be silly.

Not sure it’s that simple is it? Every team is different has has different setups/roles

If Henry couldn’t crack the 23 regularly before we added McStay and Hill, then I’m not sure how he gets in after?

Oleg Markov couldn’t get a game at Richmond during a successful period. But the couldn’t get a game at Gold Coast when they were garbage.

Yet he’s a lock in a Premiership contender. It’s not so black and white. Pardon the pun.

 

[3rdMan]

He'd play Elliott's deep role and Elliott would play higher up the ground. I'm not convinced it would improve us though.

Don't see it. Forward line would be too slow. Would only work if we dropped a ruckman, four KPFs is too many. AJ isn't too far off for goal output but is also not playing as a fourth KPF.

 

[Mollythedolly]

No, Begg's ruck craft is awful. Regularly beaten by a country mile by VFL-level ruckmen. Oscar overtook him by the end of the season. Begg, if he has a future, will be a KPP. And that's a big if. I wouldn't be surprised if we chopped him at the end of the year and found some VFL ruck to fill his place. His best skill is tackling.

Happy for you to think that.

 

[Bramax]

if the hawks get Mckay, is DGB one to watch? Or is he really a fail? I know they paid pick 6 for him, but they’d take a lot less obviously given he’s stuck in the 2’s

He looked like a very good future player leading into the draft. He was outstanding at U18 level and I’m not sure why it hasn’t translated to on field success in AFL. He definitely looked good enough back then to be worth a look now. Maybe he just needs a different environment.

 

[manicpie]

I’d be stoked with an off-season of Khamis and Doedee

Absolutely

 

[Gone Critical]

Not sure it’s that simple is it? Every team is different has has different setups/roles

If Henry couldn’t crack the 23 regularly before we added McStay and Hill, then I’m not sure how he gets in after?

Oleg Markov couldn’t get a game at Richmond during a successful period. But the couldn’t get a game at Gold Coast when they were garbage.

Yet he’s a lock in a Premiership contender. It’s not so black and white. Pardon the pun.

The big difference between Henry and a payer like Markov is ones a journey man who has a great story in 2023 and the other is tracking early in his career as an A gade talent

The A grade talent is much more predictable

Any marking forward who plays 10,15 then 22 games in his 1st 3 seasons is tracking wonderfully. To say a 2nd year player wouldnt crack our 23 when he played 15 games the year before is unlikely. He gets talked down on this board because of the way he left. A marking forward who does 10 then 15 in their 1st 2 seasons usually steps up again. Henry did that ++ this year but he was always likely to play a lot

As it stands he has played about 6th number of games in his draft year and cleared out as the player who has kicked most goals from that year. If the draft was redone I think he would go close to top 5.

Goals from 2020 draft

Henry 67
JUH 60 is next best

High end talents are different from run of the mill players. Once you know he can cut it at AFL level he should show marked improvement through those 1st 4 years. He is likely to have another spike in performance in 2024 and over time will become a bigger and bigger loss to us

If he was with us in 23 he would have played lots. The really good kids do, we would have shuffled our team to include him as his improvement continued to rise rapidly

 

[gouki88]

I'm definitely growing to like the idea of Khamis as a cheapy addition. Think he's significantly better in the swingman role than Wilson, and provides more as a defender than Ruscoe.

I think from the rest of the guys we've been 'linked' to, I'm most interested in is Max Holmes. Only just turned 21, and would provide some great run and skill on the outside as a long-term Sidey replacement.

I like Hollands & Doedee, but admittedly don't know enough about the former and am wary of the latter's injury history.

 

[Bianconeri]

To say a 2nd year player wouldnt crack our 23 when he played 15 games the year before is unlikely.

Yet in the case of Ginnivan (who played even more games) it happened.

I don’t think it was likely for a player outside our best 22 last season to force his way though after increasing depth especially since all three of McStay, Hill and Mitchell’s spot came at the expense of a forward.

Henry playing 15 games last season were because the alternatives of Krueger and Johnson were injured most of the year and not a true reflection of how he was tracking.

He gets talked down on this board because of the way he left

There’s a bit of that with some posters however I was happy for him to leave the whole time he was year.