List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2023

[No SPIN]

We've had five players from our men's program have their careers ended because of concussion. Maybe it's time to look at why they're happening and see if we can mitigate against it. We'll never stop concussions. Might be able to better train players.

Please explain in detail, how you have concluded our incidence of concussion retirements are due to mismanagement.

Note: Correlation is not always causation.

 

[VinnieB]

And have a disgruntled bloke around the club who doesn’t want to be there. Who even prior to this obviously already felt harshly done by.

Can’t imagine that would be a good thing to have happen given Freo’s problematic attrition rate.

Freo is just a terrible club.
They can't hang on to players.
They fail to offer their non-star players reasonable contracts.
They have an outlier year and suddenly they think they are contenders.
They don't understand putting a year of development into the player they use with our pick will be more valuable to their future than keeping a guy for another 12 months who will then leave and really not make a difference in 2024 to where they are placed.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Does he hate us?

I've always just thought that he's thick.

Sometimes I feel like what comes out of my radio/tv is different to everyone else. I've never thought Johnson hated us. He seems mostly positive about Collingwood I thought.

 

[Bramax]

Your constant bagging of Frampton is tiresome.
He is more than capable of holding down a defensive post, and were it not for the constant need to fill holes this season, he would have proven himself.

I thought Frampton played some very good games down back this year when needed. He was very solid.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

I like it now how everyone rates HH ahead of Gini. Where were they both at the end of their second season?

Not kicking 40 goals, that's for sure.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

I like Schulz but I don't see his midfield potential that way. Certainly not in a way that will replace Mitchell, Pendles or Adams which is what concerns me. We're going to need get a first use on-baller in. Unless there is a big development leap from some of our younger on-ballers.

There's a difference between playing mid and CBA attendance.
CBA is getting more and more planned and set play based.

Mid is just about the ability to be clean, contest fiercely and spread.
He has the tools.

If we're going to begin the transition away from the guys mentioned, then it has to start this year.
Either way, we'll find out how many of about 5-6 players can take the step into the middle.
No need to panic and worry about it until we see how they roll out in Feb and any pre-season positional changes. Because i'm expecting about 4-5 changes to player positions.

 

[VinnieB]

Why are we so intent on recruiting another small forward when we have Hill, McCreery and Ginnivan? Sounds more like we should be hunting for a KPD to replace Murphy (who I would hate to see go) or a more versatile KPF Elliot replacement (I am not averse to him retiring as he didn't have a great season and his finals' games were disappointing). Frampton is not the answer down back, and with Murphy perhaps gone, our strong backline will be severely weakened. Howe turns 33 next year. Pendlebury will be 36 at the start of the season. Cox will be 33 and Mihochek 31. The club is in danger of becoming a retirement home.

Do we need someone to take Adams spot given that Mitchell at 30 isn't going to be around forever? You are all going to throw up names like McInnes, Allan or McCrae, but none of those blokes have yet indicated they are capable of breaking into a premiership line up next year. Still, I guess we only need one of them to succeed, so an Adams replacement is not a real priority, particularly given we won a GF without him.

This time around, lets go for quality replacements who will be instant best 22 players. Given we have a window of opportunity still ajar, why not blow pick 18 on the German chap if we genuinely believe that another small forward is the way to go and 23 (from Adams) on some ready made half decent player who could slot straight into a premiership line up.

Maybe because we want to improve the team and in terms of what's available, and the price, Schulz will instantly make us a better team. He is better than both McCreery and Ginnivan.

The fact is that Ginnivan is a smart skilled footballer who lacks pace for his size and really is poor overhead. Schulz is strong, fast, a high-pressure forward who kicks goals. From memory, I think he can also take a grab.

 

[manicpie]

I just saw that Hawthorn are after ginni

 

[unplugged]

There'd have to be a photo of Schultz in a Moama Magpies kit going around. Won't even need to photo shop the guernsey on!

 

[unplugged]

I just saw that Hawthorn are after ginni

He supported them as a kid so if he ever wanted to leave, they'd have to be a chance.

 

[dick_naicos]

Big game player 20 years old, goal scorer and really clever with ball in hand.

Nah. Slow, plays for free kicks every time he gets the ball, not fit enough to play a full game and has a me, me, me attitude. I’d ship him out for nothing.

Genuinely embarrassing the way he acted post grand final win and goes against every culture change Fly instilled at the club.

 

[manicpie]

Nah. Slow, plays for free kicks every time he gets the ball, not fit enough to play a full game and has a me, me, me attitude. I’d ship him out for nothing.

Genuinely embarrassing the way he acted post grand final win and goes against every culture change Fly instilled at the club.

I thought it was odd after the "read the room " comment that ginni would dress as a jockey on mad Monday

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

I’m on the fence with Ginnivan and as Mr Footy Expert I might as well detail why.

What I love about 2023 Collingwood by contrast to Covid era Collingwood is that they’ve struck the balance between genuine care/ empathy for each other and not suffering fools. Jack Ginnivan was genuinely foolish at times in 2023 which I believe would have pushed the buttons of people internally. A mooted move into a defensive midfield role is very Ginnivan centric and not beneficial to Collingwood because all he offers is an ability to tackle. He can’t spread like others, lacks a yard, doesn’t have quick feet and isn’t a big body. In a comparison to HH, Macrae or McReery in that capacity as someone you’re looking to push through its a non starter.

What he has is smarts and a nouse for goal which will always have him in contention for a forward role. I don’t buy that there’s no room for him if Shultz is brought in because a better pre-season will see growth in those improvement areas in a forward space which would no doubt put him in the frame given he was best 25 for the majority of 2023. He’s a fan fav as well which carries zero weight with me, but is likely to be a consideration internally. My preference is that he attaches himself to IQ’s hip this offseason and starts making smarter decisions away from the club.

The big question really is what’s the steak knives with 18 for Shultz? Is it a future pick or with decisions potentially required on Murphy do we need currency to make a move on KPD cover? If Fremantle ask the Ginnivan question I think it’ll be a 50/50 call and anyone staunch either way is kidding themselves.

FWIW Murphy plays on in 2024, IMO. We just need to be planning for a future without him whether that be a move this offseason or in the mid season trade period. I floated yesterday that we might shift to Haynes (not what I’d do), but that was before the Murphy stuff dropped so now we might need to pivot to a Gardiner or Dougal Howard. Gardiner’s a straightforward like for like whereas Howard has more scope v the 200cm types, but is lacking in other areas that make Murphy the player he is. Both are a much better options than Frampton or Dean if Murphy decides he’s done.

Whether he makes it or not, he needs to try and add another string.
We have very few one positional players.
IMO its what kept McCrae out and what saw the end of Bianco and Ruscoe and the retention of Kelly.
i'm not fussed about whether he makes it (its on him), but pleased at the way the coaches have identified this.
No one seems to be getting pigeon holed.

As for Muprh.....Suspect we'll carry 2 spots over for SSP / MSD this year and fill defensive depth from there.
Would like to see Begg spend the entire summer in defence.
Bring a ruck as cover via SSP and then get to work on identifying defensive cover for the following year.

 

[Mick F]

We do tend to rate Bobby rather highly around these parts, he did sort of win us a premiership the other week

He is likely to only get better, as his fitness improves following health issues in 2022.

 

[PieBeast]

I thought it was odd after the "read the room " comment that ginni would dress as a jockey on mad Monday

That's as the opposite of reading the room as it gets.

 

[Ugene41]

If we're going to give up pick 18 for Schultz, we need to squeeze everything out of the Adams trade. Otherwise I wouldn't mind if the Schultz deal falls over this year if Freo play hardball and we sign him up for free next year and give the Ginnivan/Hill/McCreery/Elliott combo another chance next year. Elliott could also retire next year and Schultz takes his spot and there's none of this talk about Ginnivan being pushed out.

 

[dick_naicos]

I thought it was odd after the "read the room " comment that ginni would dress as a jockey on mad Monday

Just a genuine lack of respect. Fly was not happy. That’s about as animated as I’ve seen him. Same discussion points on when chatting on the run home. All the “light work” bullshit too. Just an A grade flog.

 

[South of the Yarra]

When did Schultz become prime Dusty Martin?

He had a better season than Martin

 

[Jafo]

When did Schultz become prime Dusty Martin?

When Peter Bell says so. Bell known to be worse to deal with than Dodoro.

 

[vindaloo]

If we're going to give up pick 18 for Schultz, we need to squeeze everything out of the Adams trade. Otherwise I wouldn't mind if the Schultz deal falls over this year if Freo play hardball and we sign him up for free next year and give the Ginnivan/Hill/McCreery/Elliott combo another chance next year. Elliott could also retire next year and Schultz takes his spot and there's none of this talk about Ginnivan being pushed out.

The problem with this is. In 2019 Joe Daniher chooses Sydney. No deal. At the end of 2020 he's traded to Brisbane.
In 2021 Ian Hill chooses Essendon. No deal. At the end of 2022 Ian Hill is traded to Collingwood.
Granted one could argue the club with bird in hand was seeking overs; but is pick 18 really too much for Schultz considering we'd merely be being pushed back a few spots in the draft?
Arggghh the beauty of trade week.

 

[Seedsfan]

I thought it was odd after the "read the room " comment that ginni would dress as a jockey on mad Monday

**** me, he would have been blind Saturday night, Sunday then Monday. Also you realise you pre plan your mad Monday costume

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

If we're going to give up pick 18 for Schultz, we need to squeeze everything out of the Adams trade. Otherwise I wouldn't mind if the Schultz deal falls over this year if Freo play hardball and we sign him up for free next year and give the Ginnivan/Hill/McCreery/Elliott combo another chance next year. Elliott could also retire next year and Schultz takes his spot and there's none of this talk about Ginnivan being pushed out.

Just get it done this year.
Pick 18 is unders.

if we play the 'wait a year and get him for free' card.....all other Melb clubs are going to have a crack next year. Its potentially a bidding war.
The element of surprise is what has us in this position.....so would be silly not to waste it.
But we only have so much we can give, trade wise.
Will know more after we know what we might get for Adams.

 

[Seedsfan]

Nah. Slow, plays for free kicks every time he gets the ball, not fit enough to play a full game and has a me, me, me attitude. I’d ship him out for nothing.

Genuinely embarrassing the way he acted post grand final win and goes against every culture change Fly instilled at the club.

Just goes to show how ****ing clueless you are champ. You don’t like him, that’s fine. But he is contracted if he was to get traded it’s incumbent on the club to get the best return possible

 

[left at home]

If we lose Murphy we've got a big list problem to address. I wonder what our contingency is.

Kelly

 

[Unknown Identity]

Ralph reporting Ginni had a positive end of year review, wants to stay with Pies and he and club both agree he needs to get fitter.