List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2023

[The Royal Sampler]

Bulldogs list cull continues with two decades of experience departing, Saints farewell defender

More list changes at the Western Bulldogs.

www.sen.com.au

Tom Highmore is free.

193cm so unless he’s a beast or takes a bunch of intercept marks…

 

[Gaspard]

Bulldogs list cull continues with two decades of experience departing, Saints farewell defender

More list changes at the Western Bulldogs.

www.sen.com.au

Tom Highmore is free.

Highmore looked really good a couple of years ago and at first glance would seem well worth consideration. I would be asking first up why he was unable to get a game this year when St Kilda really needed tall reinforcements. Has the coach rejected him or is there something more?

 

[Juan Ide]

193cm so unless he’s a beast or takes a bunch of

Highmore looked really good a couple of years ago and at first glance would seem well worth consideration. I would be asking first up why he was unable to get a game this year when St Kilda really needed tall reinforcements. Has the coach rejected him or is there something more?

Can't recall when 'St Kilda really needed tall reinforcements' in their back line. Appeared really settled with the likes of Wilkie, Battle, Sinclair, Stocker, W-Millera, Howard, Hill etc?

Was behind Paton and Cordy, I suppose, but not much shame in that...

 

[Markfs]

I predict that we'll be looking for half-backs in this draft...

 

[Jafo]

193cm so unless he’s a beast or takes a bunch of intercept marks…

So he’s not high anymore?

 

[The Royal Sampler]

So he’s not high anymore?

Not unless Melbourne pick him up as a DFA.

 

[Scodog10]

Assuming you’re talking about Grundy:

1. He was pick 18 and became our number 1 ruck within 2 years. How is that reaching too high?

2. We got our fingers burned because we caved in to stupid contract demands to a ruckman in his prime. I’m not sure what that has to do with drafting?

Grundy was one of the very few cases where selecting a ruckman relatively early was actually a good strategy, so I’m not sure your point is well proven by using him as a reference.

When was the last time any club was burned on a ruckman in the 1st Rd? Looking through I have it as Leslie a decade ago and the real pick burning is on those tweener sized guys that aren’t big enough to be ruckman or mobile enough as KP (or the Begg’s).

It’s become extremely rare for ruckman to be considered high end. The ones that are high end at 18 generally reach a reasonable standard. If we went back to Grundy’s draft I’ve got English, Jackson and Thilthorpe as the others.

 

[Scodog10]

Highmore looked really good a couple of years ago and at first glance would seem well worth consideration. I would be asking first up why he was unable to get a game this year when St Kilda really needed tall reinforcements. Has the coach rejected him or is there something more?

Two words, Cal Wilke. If we chased Highmore it’s unlikely we’d ever want to pair him with Murphy because we’d be undersized and Wilke is the best at that size in the league ahead of Sicily because I think his all round game is better.

 

[Johno9911]

Given our volume of departures I think we'll see 1-2 DFA's added to our list given we have a small draft hand with only 2 live picks really. Highmore and Hayes probably seem the most "logical" fits, a 24 year old ruck that's shown a bit at AFL level - I actually thought he had some really solid games in 2022, with 4 of his 7 games that year having more than 30 hitouts and averaging about 9 touches in those game - which for a young ruck is a fine display. This year seemed to fall down the pecking order a bit, only playing 4 games and getting subbed in 2 of them. Still very young in terms of rucks, and if at worse he becomes a depth option for 1-2 years, than as a DFA there's still value in his recruitment there.

Highmore is the more "curious" option. Burst on to the scene in 2021 and looked the goods with his intercepting and timing, but never really got going in 2022 and unsighted again this year. Obviously there'd be some question marks around his game/attitude, given he will be 26 when the new season roles around with only 16 games under his belt. Does anyone know if there's some knocks on him at St Kilda? Given the departure of Ruscoe, Wilson and Kelly (and before we know what happens with Murphy) another medium sized, marking option wouldn't be the worst shout imo.

Still wouldn't mind having the likes of an Aiden Bonar

16

Aiden Bonar

Age

25

Ht

188cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

4.8

2star

HB

5.3

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.8

5star

MG

101.0

2star

D

9.5

2star

K

4.0

1star

HB

5.5

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

3.5

4star

MG

101.0

2star

D

10.8

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

5.6

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

4.2

5star

, Emerson Jeka, Jackson Hately

6

Jackson Hately

Age

24

Ht

191cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.3

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

6.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.7

3star

D

14.2

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

5.8

3star

M

4.8

4star

T

1.4

2star

CL

0.4

3star

D

17.2

5star

K

8.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

5.6

5star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.8

3star

types training with us over the summer. We might find another Oleg that's worth adding to our list, otherwise move them on.

 

[brysie]

I’d go to America again for sure. Just invite a bunch of 200cm basketballers to a field, put them through their paces and figure out who we want as a test ruck.

Personally think we could look at American football sorts to come over. Punters who already have uno numero skill down, running backs and receivers could all be considered. Most of them are fit, too.

So a running back who hasn't bounced a footy on the run, a punter whose job is to get as much distance and airtime on the ball as possible and a wide receiver whose sole job is to run and catch a ball?

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Assuming you’re talking about Grundy:

1. He was pick 18 and became our number 1 ruck within 2 years. How is that reaching too high?

2. We got our fingers burned because we caved in to stupid contract demands to a ruckman in his prime. I’m not sure what that has to do with drafting?

Grundy was one of the very few cases where selecting a ruckman relatively early was actually a good strategy, so I’m not sure your point is well proven by using him as a reference.

I guess I was thinking specifically of Grundy but also the likes of Cameron Wood (pick 14) and Steve McKee (a complex deal in which we swapped away pick 3). Grundy was the best available at pick 18 and we got nothing in retrospect from our pick 19 and 20 players, though we did not know this when we drafted those guys.

My point was that he may have seemed a steal at 18 and given the lack of decent talls left in that draft he was acquired cheaply. However where we got our fingers burned was the contract we set him up on in 2019 which was inappropriate for what turned out to be a limited player, good in one position and nowhere else. Our other rucks were acquired cheaply and proved perfectly adequate for our needs.

But you are correct. In pure drafting terms in that draft he was a logical selection.

 

[pugsville]

When was the last time any club was burned on a ruckman in the 1st Rd? Looking through I have it as Leslie a decade ago and the real pick burning is on those tweener sized guys that aren’t big enough to be ruckman or mobile enough as KP (or the Begg’s).

It’s become extremely rare for ruckman to be considered high end. The ones that are high end at 18 generally reach a reasonable standard. If we went back to Grundy’s draft I’ve got English, Jackson and Thilthorpe as the others.

Melbourne Luke Jackson 2019 pick 3.

 

[Apex36]

I guess I was thinking specifically of Grundy but also the likes of Cameron Wood (pick 14) and Steve McKee (a complex deal in which we swapped away pick 3). Grundy was the best available at pick 18 and we got nothing in retrospect from our pick 19 and 20 players, though we did not know this when we drafted those guys.

Wood was actually a trade fwiw, we were trying get an established young ruck instead of drafting one. One of our worse trades.

My point was that he may have seemed a steal at 18 and given the lack of decent talls left in that draft he was acquired cheaply. However where we got our fingers burned was the contract we set him up on in 2019 which was inappropriate for what turned out to be a limited player, good in one position and nowhere else. Our other rucks were acquired cheaply and proved perfectly adequate for our needs.

I mean, he was a steal, there’s no debating that. Getting a dual AA ruckman who could take the number 1 mantle in only 2 years in the system is great value from a drafting perspective, regardless of anything else that happens. The contract is another completely separate issue entirely, and could apply to any player, not just a ruckman. Thankfully our contract situation seems to have been repaired with Wright at the helm, and although we do have quite a few long term contracts on the books still none of them are oppressively excessive like Grundy’s was.

But you are correct. In pure drafting terms in that draft he was a logical selection.

 

[Bianconeri]

So a running back who hasn't bounced a footy on the run, a punter whose job is to get as much distance and airtime on the ball as possible and a wide receiver whose sole job is to run and catch a ball?

Their skill might be better than you’d expect if they have basketball and soccer backgrounds.

 

[No SPIN]

Heard a few weeks ago that the Pies are interested in DFA Emerson Jeka. Anything changed?

Source?

 

[KinderSmock]

So a running back who hasn't bounced a footy on the run, a punter whose job is to get as much distance and airtime on the ball as possible and a wide receiver whose sole job is to run and catch a ball?

No. My point is that these positions have some desirable skills.

A punter - they can kick. That’s a big advantage they have over say a basketballer.

A running back - has bulk. There’s potential for an inside midfielder.

A wide receiver - smaller and nibble. Small forward potential.

We’re so close-minded about recruits and have an obsession with Gaelic football and basketball rather than looking side ways.

 

[12kilos]

Source?

Would he be worth taking?
pick 9, 198cm tall, personally don't know nothing about him

 

[The Royal Sampler]

No. My point is that these positions have some desirable skills.

A punter - they can kick. That’s a big advantage they have over say a basketballer.

A running back - has bulk. There’s potential for an inside midfielder.

A wide receiver - smaller and nibble. Small forward potential.

We’re so close-minded about recruits and have an obsession with Gaelic football and basketball rather than looking side ways.

Wide receivers aren’t small. They’re usually over 6’0” and built. The smaller, more nimble players are the cornerbacks who have to keep up with them.

There is massive difference going from a territory game like grid iron or rugby to a 360 degree game like basketball/soccer/AFL anyway.

 

[Scodog10]

Melbourne Luke Jackson 2019 pick 3.

Jackson one was one of the three I mentioned?

 

[Scodog10]

Would he be worth taking?
pick 9, 198cm tall, personally don't know nothing about him

Of the rookie draft…

 

[Apex36]

Melbourne Luke Jackson 2019 pick 3.

They got pick 13, pick 6, a future second, and his help winning a premiership to boot. I’m not sure you can classify that as being burned.

 

[JuniorB]

No. My point is that these positions have some desirable skills.

A punter - they can kick. That’s a big advantage they have over say a basketballer.

A running back - has bulk. There’s potential for an inside midfielder.

A wide receiver - smaller and nibble. Small forward potential.

We’re so close-minded about recruits and have an obsession with Gaelic football and basketball rather than looking side ways.

One thing to bear in mind is, that because of the stop start nature of gridiron, there's no particular emphasis on endurance - it's more about power.
Not all running backs are big bruisers - Tony Dorsett played at 87kg and was 180cm tall.

 

[sideswipe]

No. My point is that these positions have some desirable skills.

A punter - they can kick. That’s a big advantage they have over say a basketballer.

A running back - has bulk. There’s potential for an inside midfielder.

A wide receiver - smaller and nibble. Small forward potential.

We’re so close-minded about recruits and have an obsession with Gaelic football and basketball rather than looking side ways.

Punters actually can't kick - in terms of AFL technique - and they are invariably relatively ordinary athletes. That's why they end up punting.

As for the other positions on the field, the conversion to the endurance requirements, as well as the completely different ball handling skills, just makes it way too hard/unlikely. The big big thing about nearly every position in the NFL - they just don't touch the ball that often. Don't underestimate how important kicking is as a skill in AFL and how hard it is to learn.

Cox, and to a lesser extent, Mike Pyke made it primarily on height

Refer Karmichael Hunt for how challenging that conversion might be. And you would be looking at starting with trying to convert a 22/23yo after college. Too hard.

 

[sideswipe]

Wide receivers aren’t small. They’re usually over 6’0” and built. The smaller, more nimble players are the cornerbacks who have to keep up with them.

There is massive difference going from a territory game like grid iron or rugby to a 360 degree game like basketball/soccer/AFL anyway.

Although it would be awesome to see a handy wide receiver plant himself next to the goal umpire then lead into space to take what would end up being recorded as uncontested marks.

 

[sr36]

No. My point is that these positions have some desirable skills.

A punter - they can kick. That’s a big advantage they have over say a basketballer.

A running back - has bulk. There’s potential for an inside midfielder.

A wide receiver - smaller and nibble. Small forward potential.

We’re so close-minded about recruits and have an obsession with Gaelic football and basketball rather than looking side ways.

Nah. Grid iron like rugby is too one directional. Basketball, soccer and Gaelic are much more likely as the spacial awareness is much more similar and transferable. All your getting from grid iron is athletic traits - so both skills and game awareness will be completely unknown.