List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[Stifler's mom]

The North board already have a thread “JHF - Selection 1 in the 2021 Draft - Welcome to North Melbourne”.
No secrets what the Roos supporters think
This doesn’t guarantee anything but it’s feeling like he’s a done deal.

Absolutely no doubt in my mind. They are future planning to keep JHF as happy as they possibly can and this seems important to the young fella.

And i am also very confident that GWS will bid on Darcy at pick 2 and then probably trade that pick down 5 or 6 spots before choosing Mac Andrew.
Daicos is then likely to be bidded on at 3.

 

[Kappa]

I think Keane does meet the criteria of a Category B rookie. partypie explains how here.

I disagree, he isn't coming from a non-AFL background or coming from Ireland, he's played AFL for the past 2 years. Can we put Zac Tuohy on a Cat B contract because he's Irish? It makes a mockery of the system to put blokes already on AFL lists for years onto Cat B rookie lists.

 

[partypie]

If we chose to take Brander would it have to be in the PSD now that he is delisted or could we just take him any time.

There's another 48-hour DFA signing period after final list lodgements in mid-November, but given our need to preserve open list spots to match the bid on Daicos we'd either need to delist someone (Madgen?) or pick any DFA we may have our eye on during the PSD.

In any case the problem with Brander isn't whether we could get him in, it's more a case of whether he'd want to come as he would want to play senior footy rather than run around in the VFL so we might not be as an attractive a destination for him that other clubs may be.

I still think we should have a free swing at him (The Royal Sampler - tagging you in given your creeping doubts about him) if he's willing to come as he might be a handy third tall at one end of the ground or the other. I think his delisting is more of a product of West Coast's cap squeeze and them not being able to re-sign him on anything reasonable than anything to do with him specifically as a footballer.

I also keep going back to the fact that he has been and still will be behind Kennedy, Darling and Allen in the pecking order for next year (and the need to have a ruck-forward in the mix given Nic Nat only plays 65-70% of game time most weeks) as being as being key reason for Brander not cementing a spot in the Eagle's forward line as a third tall (with a similar situation in their D50).

It doesn't seem like he has any off-field issues or doesn't put in the hard yards on the training track so I'd have a crack if I were GW.

 

[Stifler's mom]

That's a good point. I'm hoping we have a plan to improve our 2022 draft hand by bundling those three 3rd rounders into a higher pick(s), which would be attractive to a team chasing points next year.

Brisbane.

 

[Jen2310]

I disagree, he isn't coming from a non-AFL background or coming from Ireland, he's played AFL for the past 2 years. Can we put Zac Tuohy on a Cat B contract because he's Irish? It makes a mockery of the system to put blokes already on AFL lists for years onto Cat B rookie lists.

But its not like you're transferring between senior to cat b. Just from one rookie list to another.

 

[Quicky]

Brisbane.

Yep. Brisbane or Melbourne.

 

[partypie]

I disagree, he isn't coming from a non-AFL background or coming from Ireland, he's played AFL for the past 2 years. Can we put Zac Tuohy on a Cat B contract because he's Irish? It makes a mockery of the system to put blokes already on AFL lists for years onto Cat B rookie lists.

One of your shakier efforts there Kappa.

Keane obviously did came from Ireland and has been a Cat B rookie given his entry pathway the entire time, he's just been taking up a Cat A list spot for past year (or couple of years), if reports about him and Tohill being flipped around last year in their second year were correct.

Nice try with the Tuohy strawman but he's obviously been in the league for longer than three (four) years and is a senior listed player. Keane has only been here for three years as a rookie and thus, now that the AFL have permitted all 3rd year rookies to be extended to a 4th year for 2022 only, he should still be eligible for Cat B rookie status / listing next year.

 

[Scodog10]

Excitement is well and truly tempered by the fact that as it stands we're looking at one pick inside the top 40 this year and one pick inside the top 40/50 next year.

It's not a great position for a team in re-build mode.

Although considering the hand GW was dealt he's done a good job.

I share your doubts, but there might be one element in all of this that we’re overlooking which is that the club don’t think we’re mid rebuild. I think we’d need 4 of the 2020 draft group to be “hits” and 2 to be guns in order to skip that completely, but loading up with 3rd and 4th rounders for next year might be a way to hedge our bets.

 

[TradeDraft]

 

[Couch Coach]

Yep. Brisbane or Melbourne.

Brisbane - Ashcroft F&S, Fletcher F&S
Essendon - Davey x 2 F&S

Our 3 x 2022 3rd rounders are valued at 1,049 points (based upon this years finish) which is approx. Pick 16.

 

[Quicky]

Brisbane - Ashcroft F&S, Fletcher F&S
Essendon - Davey x 2 F&S

Our 3 x 2022 3rd rounders are valued at 1,049 points (based upon this years finish) which is approx. Pick 16.

I got it wrong. Essendon not Melbourne.

 

[Apex36]

Thanks for the clarification. But, wouldn't Richmond's pick move up the order and effectively becom late 2nd rounders after the dogs and we use our picks for matching?

Doesn’t matter. They want top 30 picks, that’s where the talent that has the best chance of making it lies. It was a smart play by them, playing the percentages.

 

[partypie]

Excitement is well and truly tempered by the fact that as it stands we're looking at one pick inside the top 40 this year and one pick inside the top 40/50 next year.

It's not a great position for a team in re-build mode.

Although considering the hand GW was dealt he's done a good job.

If we manage to avoid a Daicos bid until pick 3 or 4 then we're actually armed with 6 x 3rd round picks from there (including one, possibly two fairly early future 3rd round picks), whish is a fairly strong position to be in given the number of clubs that will be looking for bid matching points this year (as there are a number of NGA and academy prospects who could receive bids in the second round) and next year where there is a decent crop of FS and northern academy prospects.

It's a pretty good place to be in if we want to move back into the second round this year or next year (or both).

 

[Apex36]

Keane does not meet the criteria for cat b so I would say definitely not.

How so?

 

[LarryKinn]

Can take him in the 24 hr window when DFA opens its about a week before the draft.

does that then take up a list spot forcing another delisting or is an agreement to sign him after the draft legal ?

 

[jmac70]

How so?

Apparently he’s not really Irish.

 

[Apex36]

Madge is defense and Brander is midfield/forward? Not the same. Not against Brander just why Madgen?

Brander isn’t a forward, he’s a better defender.

 

[Quicky]

The big knock on Brander by WCE supporters seems to be that he is soft. If true that's the one thing you can't be as a KPP. I don't know the truth of that though.

I think there are similarities with Henderson and the development path he took. It took awhile for him to find his feet too. Or just as likely could be another Watts or Schache.

 

[Apex36]

I doubt they will. It wouldn't make sense.

Iirc Tohill was originally our cat a and Keane our cat b Irish rookie. In year 2 they swapped over as Keane was looking more likely. So going by that it should be possible.

 

[Quicky]

Brander isn’t a forward, he’s a better defender.

WCE threw Brander around so much it's hard to know where his best position is. I think tall defender is the best bet though.

 

[Quicky]

Let's go Brander.

In my head I read that with a "let's go. clap, clap" instead of a period.

 

[Apex36]

I disagree, he isn't coming from a non-AFL background or coming from Ireland, he's played AFL for the past 2 years. Can we put Zac Tuohy on a Cat B contract because he's Irish? It makes a mockery of the system to put blokes already on AFL lists for years onto Cat B rookie lists.

Tuohy has been elevated from the rookie to the senior list though. You’re comparing apples and oranges given that Keane is still a rookie, and the fact that he and Tohill already swapped cat a/b status in year 2 on the list.

 

[partypie]

The AFL may take the view…that the existence of the Cat B list is to encourage Clubs to recruit from non traditional path ways, without impacting the main list. A free hit.
Considering the Keane is already recruited (3 year rookie), they may justify that he’s no longer eligible for a Cat B spot.
He is already in the Collingwood main list system (As a Cat A rookie). Collingwood should use the spare Cat B spot to recruit another eligible player?

I don't think there is any "spirit of the rule" consideration here. IMO he's either eligible to go back onto the Cat B rookie list based solely on his entry pathway / us having a vacant Cat B list spot / all "year three" rookies having (now) one additional year of rookie list eligibility, or he isn't.

Last time I checked his entry pathway hasn't changed, he hasn't been promoted to the senior list and we have a vacant Cat B rookie spot, so we'd be well within our rights make the request and expect it to be approved. The fact that he was swapped with Tohill in their second year also speaks to the idea of one of them being on the Cat A list as being an "overflow" situation, rather than a permanent branding of one of them as a Cat A rookie.

I seriously don't think the AFL will refuse the request to list Keane as a Cat B rookie - not losing any sleep over it at all to be honest.

 

[sr36]

Iirc Tohill was originally our cat a and Keane our cat b Irish rookie. In year 2 they swapped over as Keane was looking more likely. So going by that it should be possible.

If you've been able to previously swap them it could be possible. On the surface though, it'd seem strange for a cat A rookie with afl experience to be able to be recategorized as cat b.

 

[Jen2310]

does that then take up a list spot forcing another delisting or is an agreement to sign him after the draft legal ?

It does take up a list spot, as given the next list lodgement when the DFA opens is post draft, it gets included in the list spots you'll be taking to the draft.

• List Lodgement (1)
  Friday 29 October
  
  
• List Lodgement (2)
  Wednesday 10 November
  
  
• Delisted Free Agency Period
  Thursday 11 November – Friday 12 November
  
  
• AFL pre-season commences (1-4 year players)
  Monday 22 November
  
  
• NAB AFL Draft (Round 1)
  Wednesday 24 November (7pm EST)
  
  
• NAB AFL Draft (Rounds 2 to completion)
  Thursday 25 November (7pm EST)
  
  
• NAB AFL Pre-Season and Rookie Draft
  Friday 26 November (3.20pm EST)
  
  
• Final AFL Club List Lodgement
  Monday 29 November