List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[Quicky]

I’m not suggesting I know how good he is but like almost any player he needs to show he belongs as an AFL player. Until he does he isn’t a top 22 lock. Hopefully he will be locked in during 22.

Krueger will start in the 22 round 1 if he's fit. We didn't bring him in not to give him a go. If he doesn't perform, sure he may be out, but he'll start in the seniors.

I understand Krueger is no sure thing and still has a lot to prove. I find some of the pessimism and arguments to support that view a bit exaggerated. Sure he didn't play seniors as a forward but he was sat behind the best key forward combo in the league, during two covid interrupted VFL seasons, which limited his chance to push his claims for selection, punctuated by some poorly timed injuries.

He has some really great playing qualities if he can pull it together. Tall, mobile, strong mark and attacks the contest. I'd say more promising and more ready than our other developing players in fairness. I reckon opportunity may be all he needs. We're developing so he'll be given every chance to succeed.

 

[Quicky]

Probably right. Some will come along who are worth it, but they're really rare. You can't go into a draft saying KPF only with early pick, because most years there isn't one who is worthy of a really high pick.

I agree you're no guarantee to grab a good key forward high but you're chances are significantly improved. Eventually you need to invest. The alternative is to have significant list holes like we've experienced the last almost decade.

So what's the solution if it isn't high picks? Free agency is longer odds than high in the draft. It doesn't get easier deeper in the draft. The rookie list has netted some decent role players but not the stars you need. Do we persist with the NQR? I think you need to accept the risk with high picks at some point.

 

[snagbreac]

I’m confused. De Goey is a Free agent next year isn’t he? How would we get 2 picks from him?

Restricted Free Agents need to be traded before moving. An unrestricted free agent may move at will. de Goey, to my knowledge, is a RFA.

 

[DERKADERRR]

Restricted Free Agents need to be traded before moving. An unrestricted free agent may move at will. de Goey, to my knowledge, is a RFA.

That's only under the assumption that we match the opposition clubs bid to force a trade, if we don't match their bid he gets to leave and we get a compo pick.

 

[TakingThePies]

Bookmark it.

Maynard, De Goey and Moore will be Collingwood players 2023 and beyond.

 

[Gone Critical]

Krueger will start in the 22 round 1 if he's fit. We didn't bring him in not to give him a go. If he doesn't perform, sure he may be out, but he'll start in the seniors.

I understand Krueger is no sure thing and still has a lot to prove. I find some of the pessimism and arguments to support that view a bit exaggerated. Sure he didn't play seniors as a forward but he was sat behind the best key forward combo in the league, during two covid interrupted VFL seasons, which limited his chance to push his claims for selection, punctuated by some poorly timed injuries.

He has some really great playing qualities if he can pull it together. Tall, mobile, strong mark and attacks the contest. I'd say more promising and more ready than our other developing players in fairness. I reckon opportunity may be all he needs. We're developing so he'll be given every chance to succeed.

I think he will start to and agree he looks the most likely. I just don’t believe there would be some guarantee that the gig is his round 1 come what may

I don’t believe it’s likely but if Kelly or one of the others burst out of the blocks in the pre season and eclipse him they should get 1st crack. He doesn’t have a history of AFL performance to fall back on and negate a preseason below his rivals is the point.

 

[BEEG]

What would an Elliott compo look like?

 

[TradeDraft]

I think he will start to and agree he looks the most likely. I just don’t believe there would be some guarantee that the gig is his round 1 come what may

I don’t believe it’s likely but if Kelly or one of the others burst out of the blocks in the pre season and eclipse him they should get 1st crack. He doesn’t have a history of AFL performance to fall back on and negate a preseason below his rivals is the point.

Kelly does not Either and Johnson/McMahon/Begg not played any AFL footy

 

[JuniorB]

I’m confused. De Goey is a Free agent next year isn’t he? How would we get 2 picks from him?

He'll be an RFA on big bucks, which would mean big compensation, or 2 1st round picks as a trade. That's if he actually decides to leave, which is not a foregone conclusion.

 

[partypie]

Even if we trade our future first, surely any FA compo is based on our ladder position?

Yes it does, we finish last then DeGoey gets us pick 2 a compo.

The FA compo system isn't hard to decipher at all, the bit we don't know is how much guaranteed money players are on (or offered) which makes it all seem like a mystery.

 

[sr36]

I agree you're no guarantee to grab a good key forward high but you're chances are significantly improved. Eventually you need to invest. The alternative is to have significant list holes like we've experienced the last almost decade.

So what's the solution if it isn't high picks? Free agency is longer odds than high in the draft. It doesn't get easier deeper in the draft. The rookie list has netted some decent role players but not the stars you need. Do we persist with the NQR? I think you need to accept the risk with high picks at some point.

I think gun mids and solid kpfs trump's the other way around. I'd spend big on mids. You could have gotten the Premiers KPFs last year in trade week for stuff all. They were both on the market. That's not going to happen every year. But I just think you need solid kpfs.

 

[snagbreac]

What would an Elliott compo look like?

Low. His age would keep it down.

 

[snagbreac]

He'll be an RFA on big bucks, which would mean big compensation, or 2 1st round picks as a trade. That's if he actually decides to leave, which is not a foregone conclusion.

I made up that hypothetical as some sort of conspiracy for why a trade for Adelaide's pick would be a good idea. There's a lot of ifs, whens, maybes, onlys, etc. Trading for Pick 6 would/wouldn't make sense if we had 2025 goggles available. Unfortunately we don't so hypothetical questions and star gazing are the closest probabilities.

 

[soreplums]

There is a magic formula that makes even less sense than anything you'll touch in maths. It has a lot to do with salary, age and what tier they are in. Ladder position does factor but so does wage.

My comment was more about whether not having a first round pick next year would affect band one compo.

I.e if we trade out our first rounder next year and we’re granted band 1 compo, surely it would still be pick 3 if we finished 17th.

 

[JuniorB]

I think gun mids and solid kpfs trump's the other way around. I'd spend big on mids. You could have gotten the Premiers KPFs last year in trade week for stuff all. They were both on the market. That's not going to happen every year. But I just think you need solid kpfs.

I agree - look at Petracca & Oliver this year. In the GF these 2 went bang - game over!

 

[soreplums]

GWS, knowing our plans, wouldn't be accepting a first rounder for a team expected to rise. If GWS has Pick 2, they'll be charging us a premium for it. Pick 2 is worth 2400 points and I doubt whether Adelaide's going to be 2nd last! It's a huge risk. They got lucky this year.

If they are looking for a tall and the player they want is still there at Adelaide’s pick, it might not take much more than that to get it done.

 

[Kappa]

Restricted Free Agents need to be traded before moving. An unrestricted free agent may move at will. de Goey, to my knowledge, is a RFA.

All this years and you still don't understand how the system works?

 

[BEEG]

Low. His age would keep it down.

I could see him getting a 4 year deal on decent money if he plays all year.

I can't see him getting that with Collingwood.

Carlton/Essendon would be my pick.

 

[cityslick1]

I wouldn't include Travis as he was a father/son - he, IMO, is a good benchmark for a quality forward. I'd accept Chris Tarrant as the only quality KF the Pies have recruited from the National Draft - that's just one.

We still have to agree to pick the player. And he was drafted from the national draft, as a forward, regardless of father / son.

if we drafted 20 Trav clokes across 10 years, would you still say that we haven’t drafted any key forwards, because they’re all father sons…….

 

[cityslick1]

Stepho's attitude wasn't seen as an issue. Even once on the list, we spoke glowingly about him for two years - even after the gambling fiasco. Naughton was drafted as a full back who could mark but couldn't kick - his development has been amazing. Having predicted Naughton and Stephos development and lack thereof would have been freakish recruiting and not having predicted it shouldn't be viewed as an error. It wasn't bad recruiting, it was the luck that goes with the very nature of picking which 18 year old is going to be the best player. And whilst it isn't currently looking likely, I still wouldn't be majorly surprised if that ends up being Stepho by the end of their careers.

Predicting a players social issues very hard, I agree. But you talk as if naughton was picked in the 40’s. He wasn’t. He was picked 3 picks after stepho… and was in our calculations. He was just seen as a bit short for a KPP, a back rather than a gun forward… whilst Jayden was seen to have pace and x factor.
Inexact science, but we got it wrong, even after the due diligence.

 

[sr36]

I wouldn't include Travis as he was a father/son - he, IMO, is a good benchmark for a quality forward. I'd accept Chris Tarrant as the only quality KF the Pies have recruited from the National Draft - that's just one.

It'd be interesting to count up how many each have drafted.

If we're not including father sons, I suspect Cats are at zero. Richmond 1, Swans zero etc...

 

[sr36]

Predicting a players social issues very hard, I agree. But you talk as if naughton was picked in the 40’s. He wasn’t. He was picked 3 picks after stepho… and was in our calculations. He was just seen as a bit short for a KPP, a back rather than a gun forward… whilst Jayden was seen to have pace and x factor.
I exact science, but we got it wrong, even after the due diligence.

I've got doubts about our player management and development over the last decade, thus am not sure that we can judge the recruitment decision as wrong. I doubt Naughton would be a quality chf if he came to us.

 

[Quicky]

I think gun mids and solid kpfs trump's the other way around. I'd spend big on mids. You could have gotten the Premiers KPFs last year in trade week for stuff all. They were both on the market. That's not going to happen every year. But I just think you need solid kpfs.

I think you need both. I think you need at least one A-Grade key forward. You need a 1st or early 2nd rounder to get them. Or to pay the price at free agency.

 

[sr36]

I think you need both. I think you need at least one A-Grade key forward. You need a 1st or early 2nd rounder to get them. Or to pay the price at free agency.

Who do you consider to be the leagues A grade kpfs forwards? I think you can throw a blanket over a lot of blokes, and I'd include Mihocek under the blanket. Which to me makes none of them hugely valuable.

 

[Gone Critical]

Kelly does not Either and Johnson/McMahon/Begg not played any AFL footy

Yep so it’s the one who looks best in the pre season will get the spot most likely