List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[neilk]

Cal Twomey has updated his rankings this morning. Not a mock draft but he has speculated the Suns might be the more likely to bid on Daicos.
so we will get him at pick 3 (or 4 if Either bid on Darcy first)
Which should enable us to live trade 36 out and then trade it back in after matching

Are we allowed to do that?

 

[jatsad]

You clearly haven't seen much of Greenwood if you think that's the case, or that the two are even comparable. Constable is a decent VFL standard accumulator but he's nowhere near the level of Greenwood who gets it done as the big body against AFL-standard opposition virtually every single week.

Constable was only a suggestion and really hasn't been given a chance. There are plenty of big-body midfielders out there.
I just don't think a person of Wayne Campbell's experience would blunder like this, no matter what he says in the news.
Greenwood has injury worries, is 30 and won't be in many, if any, finals appearances for the Suns. I reckon it was a calculated gamble.

 

[sr36]

Are we allowed to do that?

Yes. We've go 5 minutes to choose to match the Daicos bid, during which time live trades are allowed.

 

[neilk]

Yes. We've go 5 minutes to choose to match the Daicos bid, during which time live trades are allowed.

I thought this was stopped after Sydney traded out a pick so it wouldn't be used to match an academy or f/s kid, and then traded it back in after they matched the bid. Something like that, anyway.

 

[sr36]

I thought this was stopped after Sydney traded out a pick so it wouldn't be used to match an academy or f/s kid, and then traded it back in after they matched the bid. Something like that, anyway.

They changed the rules so you can't trade out a pick and then trade it back in later to stop the Sydney thing happening. But you can still trade out or in.

 

[neilk]

They changed the rules so you can't trade out a pick and then trade it back in later to stop the Sydney thing happening. But you can still trade out or in.

The quote which led me to question whether we could still do this was "Which should enable us to live trade 36 out and then trade it back in after matching" which you seem to be saying cannot be done now. It's saying trade out 36 before matching, then trade 36 back in after matching.

 

[sr36]

The quote which led me to question whether we could still do this was "Which should enable us to live trade 36 out and then trade it back in after matching" which you seem to be saying cannot be done now. It's saying trade out 36 before matching, then trade 36 back in after matching.

Yeah we can't do that. We can trade it out and trade in a different pick though.

 

[Harry O]

Yeah we can't do that. We can trade it out and trade in a different pick though.

That is what I was referring to. As an example you could trade 36 out for say another Clubs future 2nd pre bid, and then post matching trade the future 2nd and one of our future 3rds for say the Dogs pick 23? Or many variations of that type of deal.
We will be very keen to not adjust acquire Daicos plus some late hail marys in this draft

 

[partypie]

I thought this was stopped after Sydney traded out a pick so it wouldn't be used to match an academy or f/s kid, and then traded it back in after they matched the bid. Something like that, anyway.

What happened was that Sydney and West Coast conspired to help avoid Sydney using pick 26 to match a bid on Blakey (which they matched with a bunch of later picks) and then immediately traded again to essentially restore Sydney's spot back in the second round (ie. both trades were essentially the one deal struck between the two teams).

What we would be doing is trading out one of our earlier picks for a future pick if / when we wont need it anymore to match the bid on Daicos, and then perhaps trading back into the second round on day 2 of the draft with a different club if a player we like slips to the right spot.

 

[Quicky]

Let's not get carried away, Constable isn't a patch on Greenwood as the latter can actually get around the ground and has more than one gear in his running.

Greenwood is one of the more underrated mids going around in the competition for mine (probably due to playing mostly out of sight, out of mind at the Suns), similar to how Touk is acknowledged as being good when he is really and out and out gun.

Aside from being a tackling machine Greenwood is also a monster at the stoppages with high clearance and contested possession numbers and just keeps showing up and playing his role every week pretty much without fail. He would have made a very solid addition to most (if not all) of the other 17 teams in the competition.

Greenwood is a good player but doesn't fit our circumstances. We're rebuilding.

 

[partypie]

Greenwood is a good player but doesn't fit our circumstances. We're rebuilding.

I've already noted that in an earlier post, just commenting on the idea that Greenwood and Constable are in any way on the same level.

 

[Scodog10]

It is a lot less likely, but there are clubs that could do with a key back who may see Rory as a cheap stop gap and worth taking the risk on Rory despite his bad run with injuries. I mean Carlton just unexpectedly lost Liam Jones to retirement of the the vaccination mandates, who happens to play the same position as Rory.

Don't get me wrong Rory isn't as bad a decision to try a delist & re-draft scenario as Greenwood, it wouldn't be as devastating if someone else picked him up. But the principle point remains the same. The lesson here is you don't gamble with best 22 (when fit) players, because you think their contract, age or injury situations will discourage other clubs to recruit them out from under you, because if the players are talented enough there'll be someone who will take the opportunity to recruit them.

For me it’s possible in an anything’s possible way, but I don’t think he belongs in the same discussion as Greenwood. I do agree with your overarching POV that clubs shouldn’t be taking the punt on best 22 guys although I’m not totally convinced they’re going to be too distraught over losing Greenwood. A practical example for me would be Steele who I rate higher than Greenwood, but if we made that move to alleviate cap constraints and someone swooped in I wouldn’t lose sleep.

 

[JuniorB]

Its a much more nuanced argument than saying bringing in an established mid will delay the development of your youngsters.

Especially in NM position with a young list development needs careful management. A strong experienced mid can help set the tone for the youngsters and show them how to play and prepare. It can protect them from being exposed too early and thus learning survival mode rather than good habits. For some youngsters VFL time is very important in their development so delaying AFL exposure can be as much a benefit as a problem

I am sure Noble and the NM coaches considered all those factors before signing Greenwood. On the surface it looks a good pick up for them. I think they will see a pretty strong lift in the season ahead as I reckon they are getting their rebuild right.

That's why Pendles is so important to us, even in his twilight years, because the way he prepares & plays is a great example to young players.

 

[sr36]

The lesson here is you don't gamble with best 22 (when fit) players, because you think their contract, age or injury situations will discourage other clubs to recruit them out from under you, because if the players are talented enough there'll be someone who will take the opportunity to recruit them.

Who should they have delisted?

 

[MyManLynch]

Who should they have delisted?

Ben King

 

[Couch Coach]

Who should they have delisted?

One huge question for Gold Coast: Why Hugh?

If you're scratching your head wondering how did this happen, you're not alone

www.afl.com.au

"Wouldn't it have made more sense to delist Macpherson, a player Gold Coast was happy to float as a trade target, with the promise to re-draft him?"
"To a lesser extent, perhaps Chris Burgess? The South Australian swingman was crucial at times last season covering for injured Jarrod Witts and Sam Day, but Mabior Chol's arrival could change that."

 

[RobJD]

One huge question for Gold Coast: Why Hugh?

If you're scratching your head wondering how did this happen, you're not alone

www.afl.com.au

"Wouldn't it have made more sense to delist Macpherson, a player Gold Coast was happy to float as a trade target, with the promise to re-draft him?"
"To a lesser extent, perhaps Chris Burgess? The South Australian swingman was crucial at times last season covering for injured Jarrod Witts and Sam Day, but Mabior Chol's arrival could change that."

Maybe they wouldn't agree to being delisted!

 

[Jen2310]

Maybe they wouldn't agree to being delisted!

Yeah, that's the thing. You've got to get them and their manager to agree

 

[Jen2310]

This is how it went down.

Why them? And more to the point, why Greenwood? The club actually believed no one would come knocking for him. Absurd.

The two parties had an agreement. Greenwood told the Suns hierarchy he would reject any offers, with the 29-year-old able to set the terms on a contract at the draft, and re-join the Suns. Simple, right?

No. Enter the Roos, backed by the man who brought Greenwood to the Adelaide Crows, David Noble, and former Suns list boss Scott Clayton. They offered a three-year when he only had one at the Suns, more money and something that hasn’t been broadcast to the public – the prospect of a job post footy. The goalposts had been moved and Greenwood understandably went for it.


Incredibly, the Suns were willing to let Greenwood go, despite the belief he would stay. They want to move from a Hawthorn-like list strategy to one the Sydney Swans have used where the core group are secured and the others are role players.

All-Australian Touk Miller

11

Touk Miller

Age

29

Ht

178cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.7

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

12.3

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

5.4

5star

CL

4.2

5star

D

22.0

5star

K

11.4

4star

HB

10.6

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.8

5star

CL

4.1

5star

D

17.8

5star

K

5.8

3star

HB

12.0

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.0

5star

and captain David Swallow

24

David Swallow

Age

32

Ht

186cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.1

5star

K

11.7

4star

HB

9.4

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

4.4

5star

MG

307.5

4star

D

18.4

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

7.3

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

4.6

5star

MG

283.9

4star

D

19.4

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

9.4

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

5.0

5star

are midfield mainstayers and they want to give youngsters Matt Rowell

18

Matt Rowell

Age

23

Ht

180cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

D

17.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

D

17.4

5star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

, Noah Anderson

15

Noah Anderson

Age

24

Ht

192cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

6.0

4star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

6.0

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.0

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

CL

0.0

1star

, Brayden Fiorini

8

Brayden Fiorini

Age

27

Ht

187cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.9

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

9.1

5star

M

4.7

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

2.9

4star

D

16.3

4star

K

11.0

4star

HB

5.3

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.7

3star

CL

0.7

3star

D

21.2

5star

K

10.2

4star

HB

11.0

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

4.2

5star

CL

3.2

5star

, Sam Flanders and Elijah Hollands game time to ensure they remain at the club.

Ideally they wanted Greenwood to play half of the season and for the youngsters to go past him but Greenwood is in outstanding shape and while he knew spots in the best 22 were going to be tough, those inside and outside of the club backed him to get there.

 

[snagbreac]

We are trying.
What forward line are you watching?
I think you’ve misread.

It's stacked because of the quantity we have. There are something like 11 forwards without Kreugs ... that's a lot.

 

[Jafo]

Cal Twomey has updated his rankings this morning. Not a mock draft but he has speculated the Suns might be the more likely to bid on Daicos.
so we will get him at pick 3 (or 4 if Either bid on Darcy first)
Which should enable us to live trade 36 out and then trade it back in after matching

Maybe more so given ND has also stated he wants to go high (be named) in the draft. So after Nth of course is GWS.

 

[snagbreac]

Per Twomey's updated form guide, Hammelmann isn't a Top 35 pick. We could get him quite late. He's 25 but I don't think that should be a turnoff. If he turns out to be another Mihocek and we get three years of AFL-level service plus more, then it's worth it. Hardly going to be selling our future drafting him.

 

[Jafo]

So then is this delisting thing a loophole clubs could set up as a work around to acquire a player?

Say Club B wanted a player from Club A and have a talk and said just say you’ll be happy to play for less and smaller contract to help the club retain other players on the list.

Club A delists a player looking to rename him come draft day.

Nek minut Club B signs him up.

can this be done or is this Suns thing a strange anomaly?

 

[Jen2310]

So then is this delisting thing a loophole clubs could set up as a work around to acquire a player?

Say Club B wanted a player from Club A and have a talk and said just say you’ll be happy to play for less and smaller contract to help the club retain other players on the list.

Club A delists a player looking to rename him come draft day.

Nek minut Club B signs him up.

can this be done or is this Suns thing a strange anomaly?

It can be done, but usually isn't. There has been a vibe its an unspoken rule that just doesn't happen. But clearly North disagreed.

 

[sr36]

It can be done, but usually isn't. There has been a vibe its an unspoken rule that just doesn't happen. But clearly North disagreed.

How many decent players have been delisted and then re-drafted by the same team? I'd suggest that it doesn't usually happen because it's usually guys like Adam Oxley, Sam Murray suspended waiting a drug charge, Tim Broomhead with a busted up leg, etc...