List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[soreplums]

I’m happy to keep Grundy and I certainly wouldn’t be trading him for the sake of a salary dump. I’d only consider trading him if his currency can immediately improve our list.
I hear the argument that clubs won’t want to pay his salary in full and therefore will limit his currency, I just don’t completely buy into it. If we did have to contribute, it wouldn’t be more than $100-150k for a couple of years.

if that puts us in the frame to acquire an inside mid (let’s say it is Taranto), a KPF and keep JDG at a reasonable price and the club thinks that will improve us, then I’d consider it.

 

[sr36]

I disagree with this. His form tapered in 2021 when we reverted to a slower game style, and we're not sure how his year would look now if he wasn't injured.

His best in 2018 and some of 2019 came when we were transitioning much quicker.

Would you use him as a linking mid with run and carry forward handballing ball movement? I think it was clear that McRae didn't want to.

 

[Anzacday]

Where I think he'll struggle to get full effectiveness back under McRae is around the ground. With Buckley slow ball movement he was an effective linking mid, but you wouldn't want him involved in run and gun chains.

I disagree with this. His form tapered in 2021 when we reverted to a slower game style, and we're not sure how his year would look now if he wasn't injured.

His best in 2018 and some of 2019 came when we were transitioning much quicker.

I’m very keen to know if this is old footage?

 

[unplugged]

I’m very keen to know if this is old footage or not.

Huh?

 

[Anzacday]

Huh?

Fixed, sorry about that!

 

[Rorzza]

Exactly, list management is about improving the list... Trading Grundy is just fairy land stuff!
Clickbait, click, click, click..

I'm really looking forward to getting the Goo, Grundy and Moore back in the team in coming weeks, their top end talent will be required for the last three regularly season games. Huge games in relation to where CFC finish in finals.

 

[unplugged]

Fixed, sorry about that!

That's better. Sheesh, I'm interested to know as well.

Jen2310

 

[AmericanMustard]

Exactly, list management is about improving the list... Trading Grundy is just fairy land stuff!
Clickbait, click, click, click..

I'm really looking forward to getting the Goo, Grundy and Moore back in the team in coming weeks, their top end talent will be required for the last three regularly season games. Huge games in relation to where CFC finish in finals.

Fairy land stuff if your looking at removing Grundy in isolation I agree

 

[Apex36]

Would you use him as a linking mid with run and carry forward handballing ball movement? I think it was clear that McRae didn't want to.

6 games in transitioning to a new style, I’m not sure you can be so definitive about how Macrae did and didn’t want to use Grundy.

 

[Jen2310]

That footage was last Thurday I believe, during the main session. Grundy participated in some drills.

 

[Silky23]

The fact people still want JDG after everything he has done to ruin the culture and brand, constantly being injured, form tapering off worse than Grundy’s and are happy to rid Grundy who puts in 110% every time he wears the jumper just frustrates the hell out of me. Time to stop paying players based on potential, because frankly JDG has done nothing to deserve the money he wants. He has not improved at any stage of his career. Not even averaging a goal a game this year. We have multiple blokes on our list who have passed him for half and even a third of the $

 

[Silky23]

The other thing that baffles me is that we already know how short we are on KPP stock yet some posters on here are happy to lose Grundy like he’s a washed up piece of junk.

 

[AmericanMustard]

The fact people still want JDG after everything he has done to ruin the culture and brand, constantly being injured, form tapering off worse than Grundy’s and are happy to rid Grundy who puts in 110% every time he wears the jumper just frustrates the hell out of me. Time to stop paying players based on potential, because frankly JDG has done nothing to deserve the money he wants. He has not improved at any stage of his career. Not even averaging a goal a game this year. We have multiple blokes on our list who have passed him for half and even a third of the $

Cal Brown puts in 110% effort too. Better sign him up

 

[Silky23]

Cal Brown puts in 110% effort too. Better sign him up

The fact you compared Grundy to Cal Brown just reiterates my point on the amount of posters on here who are literally space cadets.

 

[Anzacday]

That footage was last Thurday I believe, during the main session. Grundy participated in some drills.

If that’s the case then I’m happy.
He looks to be moving extremely well and the sprint effort looked great.

 

[well left]

I feel we are in a much better place to approach this than 2020. We don’t need to trade Grundy but if for some reason he wants to leave we can capitalize.

The interesting commentary for mine came in the injury report from Wade a week back when he said Grundy is progressing to running normal ruck patterns as well as forward patterns. That tells me we’ve had the chat already and we’re going to get a look at him and Cameron in a more even split.

I think the more likely result is Grundy stays but Mason Cox

46

Mason Cox

Age

33

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

gets a 2 year offer somewhere that we don’t match. And after his performance through the ruck this year I wouldn’t begrudge him that. We then save some cash there and find a state league type.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[AmericanMustard]

The fact you compared Grundy to Cal Brown just reiterates my point on the amount of posters on here who are literally space cadets.

I just said he puts in the same amount of effort as Grundy which is why your advocating to keeping him. Not sure how it’s a comparison of the two

 

[manicpie]

You may as well ask me for specifics on how he's managed to turn around the fortunes of the club.
I have no idea on the specifics, but its happened.
Which is why I have confidence he can do it with Grundy.

All I know, is that Grundy is still at the club and we need him to step up for the remainder of the year. I have my doubts about Grundy but if anyone can get the most out of him, it will be Fly. We might just be able to play all three some how, the more experience come September, the better

 

[Queenie Hearts]

I’m happy to keep Grundy and I certainly wouldn’t be trading him for the sake of a salary dump. I’d only consider trading him if his currency can immediately improve our list.
I hear the argument that clubs won’t want to pay his salary in full and therefore will limit his currency, I just don’t completely buy into it. If we did have to contribute, it wouldn’t be more than $100-150k for a couple of years.

if that puts us in the frame to acquire an inside mid (let’s say it is Taranto), a KPF and keep JDG at a reasonable price and the club thinks that will improve us, then I’d consider it.

I was disappointed when the Grundy deal was signed. Long term deals at such high numbers are a problem not just financially but culturally as it is not a team first approach. When you add to that the role of a ruckman, this was not the deal to do. He could test the market and take what Collingwood could afford or go, with valuable compensation coming our way. A sensible, team first approach to contracting would have avoided the future fire sale of Treloar and we would have a less thin midfield today. In addition, it sends a message to the group about the culture of the whole being more important than the individual.

Clubs who have had dynasty periods of success all say that their players agreed to take unders on salary in pursuit of success. When Grundy wanted the big $$ and very long term, I was happy to let him go despite his AA status. It smacks of an individualistic attitude that is counter-cultural in a team sport. For him to get more, it was inevitable that his team mates would get less and some could be pushed out. Surely, he would know this as there is a salary cap.

Watching hit outs at stellar numbers that failed to connect with the midfield worried me. He was performing like an extra midfielder and getting clearances himself but the tap work and his marking around the ground did not warrant a deal of this magnitude in my view.

Given Wrighty was at the Hawks and McRae was at Brisbane in teams that took less money to stay together and win multiple flags, they understand the flow on effect of long term, high $$$ deals over the longer term for individuals and the constraints it will create on improving the list for the future.

The senior coach made comments before the season started about Grundy needing to connect better with the team (in a glove analogy).
Perhaps this had not improved?

If we have become a destination club as reported this week, there are some high calibre recruits that are in the right age range to improve a list with very senior and very young players with not much in the middle. Some bold moves will be needed to avoid falling over a cliff in the coming seasons as Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Elliot, Adams and Howe start to move on.

Logically, offloading this contract makes sense if it means we can recruit Taranto and either keep Jordy (on less $$) or get a player like Hopper into the midfield and add Hill and a tall forward to support Mihocek in McStay.

If Grundy really wants to be at the club, he can take a pay cut as otherwise the club is a hostage to one individual contract but if the money and long term security is more important, let him go with his $$ and open up possibilities for success.

Same for Jordy, if he wants money snd long term, we should let him go. I have been a big supporter and am compassionate about the impact of ADHD on his off-field behaviour but the reported focus on a contract with high $$ and long term deal is off putting. Maynard took a 3 year deal; Josh Daicos took 2 years.

I think part of the winning culture that they are building is to have a team first culture. Drawing a line in the sand now will bode well for the future.

I trust in Wright and Fly on knowing what good looks like.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Silky23]

I just said he puts in the same amount of effort as Grundy which is why your advocating to keeping him. Not sure how it’s a comparison of the two

Ha ha I’ve already pointed out why we should keep Grundy. On top of his effort and durability, it’s the fact he’s our best ruckman by a landslide.

The fact people find DC a good ruck is hilarious. Good contested mark and kick for goal but that’s about it. Grundy at least keeps us competitive with a weaker midfield to most.

 

[Silky23]

Personally I don’t think the argument has anything to do with the fact he’s our best ruckman though (not for mine anyway because he clearly is), the fact is on list make up 1-1.1m a season for a ruckman is too expensive for any ruck in the league, let alone one who’s recent output wouldn’t even be a top 5 ruck in the league.

As an avid watcher of American sports and the amount of salary % eaten by certain players, I can honestly say that Grundy on $1,000,000 when the salary cap has been mentioned at over $14,000,000 is absolutely nothing. He’s 7% of the cap, and when you consider you have 36-38 primary listed players before your rookie listed players he’s only 2-3x more than your average player. Where lists become intangible is when you’re offering mediocre afl players 500-600k such as our estimated contract to Stepho, Cox etc

They are what haunt your list in terms of salary cap and space, not contracts like Grundy’s. It is incredibly over analysed big contracts, and it’s something the media love to eat up on to create a story. It then shifts your mindset to suit the narrative, that Grundy is an overpaid player. When in reality, he’s not.

You also have to consider club finance as a business and not just the construct of the team that plays on the weekend. Grundy locked in for 7 years created huge hysteria, would’ve sold jerseys, bums on seats, you name it. People like to flag the Buddy deal as unsuccessful, however in terms of the business side of the franchise, he has made his contract back and tenfold for the Swans. Huge success.

 

[KinderSmock]

If there’s a modicum of truth to the Grundy rumours that’s interesting too.

I do think he’s our best ruckman, but comparing adding Grundy back into the current lineup vs a Taranto type (with Grundy cap savings), and IMO the stronger net gain is with the latter.

Taranto + someone else = Grundy's 1 million.

From a business standpoint, it's a wise move.

 

[Silky23]

Taranto + someone else = Grundy's 1 million.

From a business standpoint, it's a wise move.

It’s not that simple. You always have to pay overs for blokes to leave where they’re at, so it’s likely a case of Taranto plus McStay = 1.3 mil which means we lose Grundy and a Murphy / Quaynor type and then struggle to re - sign others.

 

[Bianconeri]

The other thing that baffles me is that we already know how short we are on KPP stock yet some posters on here are happy to lose Grundy like he’s a washed up piece of junk.

Grundy is a ruck not a kpp

 

[AmericanMustard]

As an avid watcher of American sports and the amount of salary % eaten by certain players, I can honestly say that Grundy on $1,000,000 when the salary cap has been mentioned at over $14,000,000 is absolutely nothing. He’s 7% of the cap, and when you consider you have 36-38 primary listed players before your rookie listed players he’s only 2-3x more than your average player. Where lists become intangible is when you’re offering mediocre afl players 500-600k such as our estimated contract to Stepho, Cox etc

They are what haunt your list in terms of salary cap and space, not contracts like Grundy’s. It is incredibly over analysed big contracts, and it’s something the media love to eat up on to create a story. It then shifts your mindset to suit the narrative, that Grundy is an overpaid player. When in reality, he’s not.

You also have to consider club finance as a business and not just the construct of the team that plays on the weekend. Grundy locked in for 7 years created huge hysteria, would’ve sold jerseys, bums on seats, you name it. People like to flag the Buddy deal as unsuccessful, however in terms of the business side of the franchise, he has made his contract back and tenfold for the Swans. Huge success.

But isn’t that the problem in essence with Grundy? It’s almost undeniable over the last 10 weeks without Grundy we haven’t had a major difference with him missing and we have rattled of 8 wins out of 10 including victories against 3 of the top 5 sides and he’s been replaced by one of these “average” players in the side

I agree re Franklin, his has definitely been worth the money, when he moved in 2013 he was undeniably the best key forward in the game and upto 2018/19 was still considered that or at the very least in the top 5 without even considering the business side

From business perspective I’m not sure how many people think “I want to go see Collingwood to see Brodie Grundy” anymore, and 2 years later is he even a top 5 ruck in the league?