List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[KinderSmock]

Around the boards Collingwood Focus 9/09:

63 pages added to this thread since my previous post

Adelaide: Frampton to us.
Brisbane: McStay to us.
Carlton:
Essendon: Want Henry.
Fremantle: "Ollie Henry wants $500-600k a season, he'll be leaving Collingwood. No article source, cheeky inside source"
Geelong: Want Henry. Grundy to Melbourne. "I would love to raid the Pies for JDG, Grundy and Henry."
Gold Coast: Fiorini to us.
GWS:
Hawthorn: Want Henry. Mitchell to us.
Melbourne: Grundy to Melbourne, some against it.
North: Fiorini to us.
Power: Frampton to us. Grundy they don't want.
Richmond: Picking on us, saying they get A grade and we get B/C grade Fiorini, Frampton, Mitchell, Hill and McStay. Even with them likely to get Taranto and Hopper they still talk about us. Getting Grundy to replace Soldo?
St Kilda: Not getting De Goey.
Sydney: Minor Grundy wish talk.
Bulldogs: Minor Dunkley to us talk.
West Coast:

RIP Queen Elizabeth 11

I think Frampton, McStay and Hill are effectively done deals. Poulter may be exchanged for Frampton and a pick or something like that because it seems he is leaving.

Mitchell and Fiorini would be the additional extras in the trade period and I'm fans of both, particularly if Mitchell costs a third round pick.

Interesting development about Henry. Essendon have three 2020 first round selections so it seems odd to be chasing another and apparently, his management said he had signed a two year deal when one poster rang them. They are also chasing De Goey so watch this space.

Richmond can brag all they like but at the end of the day, those B graders will set us back considerably less and may well push us further up the ladder in 2023. I suspect negotiations will not pan out well and there will have to be some work done to secure the services of Taranto.

 

[AmericanMustard]

Henry wants $500 - $600k a year. Surely that is a joke!

RIP Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II

Both reasons you hear about Henry are he wants more money, or he’s worried about his spot in the side.

Both are major red flags and might explain why he seemingly can only perform for a quarter here and there and most of the time in the last.

Build up the competition for his services and let him go

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Both reasons you hear about Henry are he wants more money, or he’s worried about his spot in the side.

Both are major red flags and might explain why he seemingly can only perform for a quarter here and there and most of the time in the last.

Build up the competition for his services and let him go

His loss would be felt, because his potential is through the roof, but he isn't worth $500k - $600k a year now. Once he is playing consistently well at AFL level then he will earn more than that.
lf money is the issue for him, and he is in a rush to start earning big $, then l say goodluck with the club that wants to pay you overs....

 

[Scritchyscroony]

I think Frampton, McStay and Hill are effectively done deals. Poulter may be exchanged for Frampton and a pick or something like that because it seems he is leaving.

Mitchell and Fiorini would be the additional extras in the trade period and I'm fans of both, particularly if Mitchell costs a third round pick.

Interesting development about Henry. Essendon have three 2020 first round selections so it seems odd to be chasing another and apparently, his management said he had signed a two year deal when one poster rang them. They are also chasing De Goey so watch this space.

Richmond can brag all they like but at the end of the day, those B graders will set us back considerably less and may well push us further up the ladder in 2023. I suspect negotiations will not pan out well and there will have to be some work done to secure the services of Taranto.

Targeting and recruiting a bunch of B/C grade players while offloading at least 1 A grader is not a recruitment strategy that fills me with confidence.

 

[KinderSmock]

Targeting and recruiting a bunch of B/C grade players while offloading at least 1 A grader is not a recruitment strategy that fills me with confidence.

I feel that the players we are targeting are undervalued and so that fills me with confidence. Remember, there were some who were sceptical about Lipinski.

 

[RobJD]

Actually in the short term Mitchell creates more problems than he solves. His opponent runs amok because he can't spread, his skills are in decline not to mention the lack of impact his disposals have, then there's the salary and his potential blocking of elite talents like Daicos and newsflash, he won't be blocking him for long then you're stuck with an expensive VFL player. Cheap and gets some clearances but rubbish at just about everything else, the Hawks can hang onto that.

I can't see Mitchell keeping either of the Daicos' out of the side - different role - he'll be competing for a spot against Adams/MacRae/McInnes/Carmichael. If he was available this week, we'd pick him - if we got one good year out of him then he'd be value.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

Hopefully as many clubs want Henry as bigfooty boards, should net a nice return

They want him, they want him. He'd be really good get but of course it'd only cost a SeCond RoUnDer at best.
arggh bigfooty.

 

[KinderSmock]

I can't see Mitchell keeping either of the Daicos' out of the side - different role - he'll be competing for a spot against Adams/MacRae/McInnes/Carmichael. If he was available this week, we'd pick him - if we got one good year out of him then he'd be value.

One good year could well be a flag. It's somewhat similar to Luke Ball and that proved a very smart move.

 

[Big Bryza]

If Fiorini is such a hot prospect…why can’t he can’t get a game for a middle of the road team?

Will Brodie 2.0

Weird shit goes on at the Suns.

 

[Anzacday]

Henry wants $500 - $600k a year. S

Those numbers may have a bit of mayo on them.
Potentially wants $400k.
Even at that price - bye Ollie.

 

[brysie]

Without engaging in speculation about whether Henry is more likely than not to stay etc. (which is futile, as only he would know), I'd like to see the following:

1. (assuming he signs a new contract) - back-end any significant earning ability, thereby providing him with incentive to prove he is capable of becoming what most think he is capable of becoming (i.e. an A grade Jack Gunston

19

Jack Gunston

Age

33

Ht

193cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.5

4star

K

10.5

4star

HB

5.0

4star

M

5.7

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

0.6

3star

-style forward). Look to give him as many minutes as possible, knowing that there are always injuries throughout a season. If he doesn't come on, or if he's disgruntled, explore options to trade him in the next two years or so. There's obviously risk for the club in that he doesn't develop and we're left with a reduced trade asset, but equally the upside could be worth that risk.

2. (assuming he requests a trade) - match whatever offer any club is willing to pay him, leaving him with the decision to either walk to the draft (thereby parking him at North for 2 seasons) or stay at the club and justify his demands. If (and only if) we receive an offer that our coaches/recruiting team consider to be too good to refuse, should we accept any such offer. In this instance, in order to maximise the chances of receiving such an offer, the club should in my view be getting on the front foot and making it known that we will find a way to match any offer put to him; further, from my reading of free agency (admittedly not the rules, just a basic explanation from the AFL), the higher the offer the higher the draft pick, regardless of whether he transfers via the draft.

I'll be incredibly disappointed if he finds a way to end up at Geelong, as that's where I think he'll attempt to land if he's in fact looking to move.

 

[JuniorB]

Will Brodie 2.0

Weird s**t goes on at the Suns.

Or Jarryd Lyons 3.0

 

[Unknown Identity]

Money would be the issue there, you'd think...

Apparently only on 600-650k
That's not much for a player of his quality imo.

 

[No SPIN]

His loss would be felt, because his potential is through the roof, but he isn't worth $500k - $600k a year now. Once he is playing consistently well at AFL level then he will earn more than that.
lf money is the issue for him, and he is in a rush to start earning big $, then l say goodluck with the club that wants to pay you overs....

No one will offer Ollie 500-600k to leave, that’s just madness - so I don’t believe he’s asking for that money..

 

[TheGreatSwan]

There is one downside when a champion in Pendlebury has longevity in the game or players like Sidebottom at age 31 (32 in January) or Howe 32 (33 in June) are still playing solid football and it's the situation where you are somewhat sacrificing your future prospects for the now.

While I believe all are contracted for next season and should remain at the club if you were to play devils advocate you could mount a case that if one or two weren't signed beyond this season our club if not in a better position in 2023 would certainly be in 2024 if we sacrificed the now for the future and moved one or two of them on for players like Taranto and Hopper.

Unfortunately for us the stars haven't been aligning in recent years when it comes to trading and if it wasn't a salary cap bursting at the seams it's been club greats playing football at a good enough standard that they can't easily be sacrificed for our future prospects.

Next year however it might be a different story and the club will start calling time on some aging stars if their form dips enough to justify the decision and/or younger options emerge we believe can replace them.

I somewhat disagree regarding Pendles. It's not just about how many touches he gets. Have you seen how he carries himself on the field? The guy is a educator and leader. Players like Nick Daicos might have all the talent in the world, but to get to the level of Pendles he has a long way to go and why not learn live from the champion himself.

Watch the video below and tell me if you can't see how he improves the future by hanging around.

 

[AmericanMustard]

No one will offer Ollie 500-600k to leave, that’s just madness - so I don’t believe he’s asking for that money..

I don’t think clubs like Geelong would.

But why wouldn’t Essendon or Hawthorn who have a heap of room in the cap do it? Theoretically you burn 2-3 years paying a premium to get some extra young talent onto your list while your not in the market for the premium players. Have a handshake agreement it could even out at a later contract if his growth demands another increase

Brisbane style, 2x800 or whatever it was for Daniher then extend a few years later to even it out

 

[MyManLynch]

Has anyone thrown their Henry jumper in the bin as yet?

 

[KJpie]

Without engaging in speculation about whether Henry is more likely than not to stay etc. (which is futile, as only he would know), I'd like to see the following:
2. (assuming he requests a trade) - match whatever offer any club is willing to pay him, leaving him with the decision to either walk to the draft (thereby parking him at North for 2 seasons) or stay at the club and justify his demands. If (and only if) we receive an offer that our coaches/recruiting team consider to be too good to refuse, should we accept any such offer. In this instance, in order to maximise the chances of receiving such an offer, the club should in my view be getting on the front foot and making it known that we will find a way to match any offer put to him; further, from my reading of free agency (admittedly not the rules, just a basic explanation from the AFL), the higher the offer the higher the draft pick, regardless of whether he transfers via the draft.

I,m confused if I'm reading this correctly.
Henry is not a free agent & thus we don't have to match any offer. He would only become a DFA if we didn't offer him a new contract (which we have) and delist him. We would then get zero for him compo wise and he could walk to any club.
I can't see that happening under any circumstance.

 

[JLC]

"The Herald Sun reports Collingwood has preliminary interest in the 25-year-old, who remains contracted to the Suns for one more year on more than $500,000."

Well, hopefully he can come for a fraction of that price.

$500,000 lol

That would be a big mistake to pay that much.

So if I understand correctly he is surplus to the Suns needs.

If we take on that contract for next year the deal should be.

Fiorini and a second rounder and we give the Suns a third rounder back.




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[jonbe54]

I somewhat disagree regarding Pendles. It's not just about how many touches he gets. Have you seen how he carries himself on the field? The guy is a educator and leader. Players like Nick Daicos might have all the talent in the world, but to get to the level of Pendles he has a long way to go and why not learn live from the champion himself.

Watch the video below and tell me if you can't see how he improves the future by hanging around.

That was actually riveting viewing with no attempt at sarcasm . . .

For a guy that has made a career out of evading opponents with a shift in weight or a shift in shoulders Pendle's truly understands the physicality of 1v1 contested situations.

 

[brysie]

I,m confused if I'm reading this correctly. Henry is not a free agent & thus we don't have to match any offer. He would only become a DFA if we delist him and we then get zero for him compo wise.
I can't see that happening under any circumstance.

My understanding is that he will be a restricted free agent. If he accepts an offer from another club, we have the right to match that offer. Should we match, he can then elect to enter the draft if he chooses to leave the club and becomes a player we have lost to free agency which is then factored into any compensation we received at the end of the free agency period (i.e. net gain/loss)

I don't tend to get into the weeds regarding the rules and application of same to free agents, but that's my understanding of the situation based on a basic explanation offered by the AFL - Free Agency - AFL.com.au

 

[Big Bryza]

Brown and Wright embarrassed the entire AFL list management profession that year, not just the clowns running ours at the time.

You would think there was a magical tree that grew 200cm 23-year-old former top 10 draft picks who had kicked 30 goals in his first two seasons or 200cm guys who were near Coleman territory.

There were genuine question marks sure, but it was weird how so many clubs that needed guys like that on their list didn't even bother to look at the bargain basement prices on offer.

Ben Brown is very mediocre these days.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Man I really hope the Tom Mitchell rumours are true. Would love to get him for a few seasons.

Also hope Ollie reconsiders. Would hope he’d take a 2 year deal on “unders”, work his butt off to live up to his potential and then cash in on a bigger deal

 

[JuniorB]

I somewhat disagree regarding Pendles. It's not just about how many touches he gets. Have you seen how he carries himself on the field? The guy is a educator and leader. Players like Nick Daicos might have all the talent in the world, but to get to the level of Pendles he has a long way to go and why not learn live from the champion himself.

Watch the video below and tell me if you can't see how he improves the future by hanging around.

Yes, Pendles is a great on field mentor & coach.
He still got 34 disposals against Geelong, so he's not done yet.

 

[legendstatus]

I think Frampton, McStay and Hill are effectively done deals. Poulter may be exchanged for Frampton and a pick or something like that because it seems he is leaving.

Mitchell and Fiorini would be the additional extras in the trade period and I'm fans of both, particularly if Mitchell costs a third round pick.

Interesting development about Henry. Essendon have three 2020 first round selections so it seems odd to be chasing another and apparently, his management said he had signed a two year deal when one poster rang them. They are also chasing De Goey so watch this space.

Richmond can brag all they like but at the end of the day, those B graders will set us back considerably less and may well push us further up the ladder in 2023. I suspect negotiations will not pan out well and there will have to be some work done to secure the services of Taranto.

Meh, Taranto & Hopper are at a different level of B Grade (pay scale) mids but B grade nevertheless - If ninethmond wont to throw the kitchen sink & the plumbing to ensure players pick them rather than where said players would really love to play at - then so be it.

I also think other clubs strategy when looking at our players certainly rests on them knowing we have a tight cap and play on this when sniffing around our elite players - I'm all for locking in our Elite A-Graders for 5-7 years now so we can get them to look elsewhere (other than Grundy, that was a massive mistake)