List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

[Gabbo64]

Unfortunately I failed year 10 but I'm 62, so I think you might be 68

Close but no biscuit. Clue: We won one the year I was born.

 

[Apex36]

Hoping GC give up pick 20 for Beaker, or at worst 26.

Not sure if Carlton will deal on a bundle pack for thier FS picks. Lol or deal with us at all.

Be interesting to see what they do.

Very quiet on the home front this year, may well be a season we sit on our hands.

You’d hope that more mature heads are in charge at Carlton than there were 15 years ago. If we can do a deal with them that’s beneficial to both parties it would be dumb in this day and age to turn it down because of petty on field rivalries.

 

[Gabbo64]

42,56 or 71

I'd like to give you a biscuit but only one is corret. Clue: I'd love to be either one of your first two answers.

 

[sr36]

at times like these, i just give up and say that you're right. Our recruitment is first class. Derek is picking winners most of the time. As people have said, we won a premiership last year, so Derek must be one of the most successful recruiters in the league. Finn is a star, Reef is a star. I think all pie members are well satisfied with jakob ryan and harry demattia. Obviously I cant question derek's astute choice of nick daicos as a first rounder. Well done Derek. We are more than ready for the transition from the older players and we should return to and remain in the top four for the next decade.

The only suggestion that i would make is to return derek to the postion of list manager. I'm sure that you'd love it too, SR. We were flying when he was in charge. I'd love to return to those days.

Dekka clearly wasn't a good list manager.

But here's my view of what has occured in terms of recruiting.

Took over the reins in about 2004. We recruited a team that won the flag in 2010 and looked capable of a very strong stint at the top. Non-recruiting off field issues resulted in that team blowing up.

So we had to recruit another team and nearly won a flag with the 2018 team. That team included: Pendles, Sidey, Howe, Maynard, JDG, Crisp, Checkers, Cox Elliott, Crisp, Adams, WHE, Moore plus Treloar and Grundy who are still good players. We had the pieces, but list management and coaching issues saw us not do much between 2019 and 2022.

We've had a good run whilst Dekka has been in charge of recruiting, which could have been significantly better but wasn't due to factors outside of recruiting. We recruited well enough for two outstanding periods.

We've had two very good teams recruited in his time that probably had the potential to be great if our other off field areas had been as strong as recruiting.

But drafting seems to have dropped off over recent years, so recruiting might need a shake up in terms of either process or personnel.

 

[manicpie]

Close but no biscuit. Clue: We won one the year I was born.

66, gee I was close

 

[Apex36]

Can't be rigid to a fault.
There is often very little in the 6th best and 7th best if needs is 7th imo you take it.

Trading in a top line KPP has proven far harder then the club thought and many on here still think is doable.

We missed both Cameron and Lynch and nothing to do with picks at the time they just chose to go to other clubs. Also missed Hogan as an opportunity as he wanted out of the spotlight and club had an aversion to him at the time after the death of his father sent him off the footy rails temporarily understandably.

Then most KP stay loyal to thier side who drafted them, very hard to pry them out.

I hope Pies are into A.Cadmans ear. Is developing nicely.

I’d say the biggest miss we’ve had so far was Naughton in the draft because of this strategy. We likely would have had him sitting around the mark of our pick but chose Stephenson instead because he was sitting at number 2 on our list. And if he hadn’t morphed in to an absolute DH lazy unfulfilled talent, instead of becoming a top end mid/fwd like he should have it might have ended up ok, but if we’re honest a young developing high end KPP should have been number 1 on our list of priorities that draft, regardless if he was 3 or 4 positions back on our list.

Hoping that KPP will become available, and are willing to move to our club while we continually piss away our draft hands is not a good list management strategy.

 

[manicpie]

Dekka clearly wasn't a good list manager.

But here's my view of what has occured in terms of recruiting.

Took over the reins in about 2004. We recruited a team that won the flag in 2010 and looked capable of a very strong stint at the top. Non-recruiting off field issues resulted in that team blowing up.

So we had to recruit another team and nearly won a flag with the 2018 team. That team included: Pendles, Sidey, Howe, Maynard, JDG, Crisp, Checkers, Cox Elliott, Crisp, Adams, WHE, Moore plus Treloar and Grundy who are still good players. We had the pieces, but list management and coaching issues saw us not do much between 2019 and 2022.

We've had a good run whilst Dekka has been in charge of recruiting, which could have been significantly better but wasn't due to factors outside of recruiting. We could have had two outstanding periods.

We've had two very good teams recruited in his time that probably had the potential to be great if our other off field areas had been as strong as recruiting.

But drafting seems to have dropped off over recent years, so recruiting might need a shake up in terms of either process or personnel.

Our recruitment needs more funds and fresh eyes. I think that's why Leppa said what he did. Other sides are targeting needs whilst we go by Hines set of questions and his box ticking lists.

 

[Apex36]

Anyone know if they have thier fathers strong hands and booming kick on them?

Iirc Josh Fraser's young lad has a fair bit of height to him already. Josh always had the talent if his son has similar will gold us in good stead.

Those boys both look like they’re going to be tall too. Playing u14’s and it looks like they’re both pushing 180cm already, I think it’s very likely that they become at least as tall as their dads.

 

[manicpie]

I’d say the biggest miss we’ve had so far was Naughton in the draft because of this strategy. We likely would have had him sitting around the mark of our pick but chose Stephenson instead because he was sitting at number 2 on our list. And if he hadn’t morphed in to an absolute DH lazy unfulfilled talent, instead of becoming a top end mid/fwd like he should have it might have ended up ok, but if we’re honest a young developing high end KPP should have been number 1 on our list of priorities that draft, regardless if he was 3 or 4 positions back on our list.

Hoping that KPP will become available, and are willing to move to our club while we continually piss away our draft hands is not a good list management strategy.

I'm over Hines draconian list. Time to get with the times and draft for needs like the good clubs are doing

 

[No SPIN]

It wasn't the best. Hawthorn handle ginni much different to us. They embrace ginni's idiosyncrasies and had no problem with him being at the pub the night before. Not sure I like the "my way or the highway " mantra we have atm. We can't be giving away players for nothing because they are a little bit different

As MM used to say - you treat star players differently ( alluding to Swans transgressions) and give them more latitude - Ginnivan was not a star or ever likely to be the full package, so there was no latitude.

 

[No SPIN]

The irony is, this was always the knock on bucks, but actually this far into mcraes tenure he has demonstrated far less patience for character and off field shenanigans than bucks did.

Really? Apart from Ginnivan what other examples do you have?

 

[Apex36]

I'm over Hines draconian list. Time to get with the times and draft for needs like the good clubs are doing

I think there needs to be give and take from both perspectives. Sometimes there will be a player too good to pass on despite list needs. Other times there will be even drafts (this year for example) where you can throw a blanket over a bunch of players and then choose your best list fit.

I’m not against replacing Hine, but it would have to be for someone absolutely proven, because his talent ID is still very good imo.

 

[loki04]

I’d say the biggest miss we’ve had so far was Naughton in the draft because of this strategy. We likely would have had him sitting around the mark of our pick but chose Stephenson instead because he was sitting at number 2 on our list. And if he hadn’t morphed in to an absolute DH lazy unfulfilled talent, instead of becoming a top end mid/fwd like he should have it might have ended up ok, but if we’re honest a young developing high end KPP should have been number 1 on our list of priorities that draft, regardless if he was 3 or 4 positions back on our list.

Hoping that KPP will become available, and are willing to move to our club while we continually piss away our draft hands is not a good list management strategy.

I don't think Stephenson's body was ever going to allow him to be the player we wanted him to become.

Once teams put time into him physically and stopped the out the back goals his trick was found out.

 

[cakewalk06]

I think there needs to be give and take from both perspectives. Sometimes there will be a player too good to pass on despite list needs. Other times there will be even drafts (this year for example) where you can throw a blanket over a bunch of players and then choose your best list fit.

I’m not against replacing Hine, but it would have to be for someone absolutely proven, because his talent ID is still very good imo.

I believe Hine is as good as anyone in the league at talent ID. We just have not had a strong hand at the draft over the past decade. Contrast that with the Swans. It's been like shooting fish in a barrel for their recruiters in recent years.

Out list management has let us down more at times IMO

 

[NMBB]

I believe Hine is as good as anyone in the league at talent ID. We just have not had a strong hand at the draft over the past decade. Contrast that with the Swans. It's been like shooting fish in a barrel for their recruiters in recent years.

Out list management has let us down more at times IMO

Nice to see the distinction between talent ID and list management - drafting and trading different cats too - every club will manage this exotic mix a bit differently

 

[loki04]

I think there needs to be give and take from both perspectives. Sometimes there will be a player too good to pass on despite list needs. Other times there will be even drafts (this year for example) where you can throw a blanket over a bunch of players and then choose your best list fit.

I’m not against replacing Hine, but it would have to be for someone absolutely proven, because his talent ID is still very good imo.

Really he hasn't had the luxury of using non FS top 10 picks all that often the last 6 years.

But think we could still improve on what we have done across other bands.

Also the whole future first trading strategy needs a massive rethink.

The whole KPP aren't worth spending top picks on is another that needs review.

I believe the club much like Sr36 is of the belief mids and flankers are a better bet to succeed then the talls and think a good role player like McStay is all that required no need for a 70 goal FF etc.
Whilst I think it's sufficient to a degree you'd always prefer at least 1 Hogan or Curnow or Mackay up front.

Can Dan lift his Goals Per game Ave? Potentially but I still only see a Checkers level from him (30 to 40 goals bracket).
Given his previous best was 28 goals a few seasons ago.

 

[loki04]

You kind of feel if we can get back into the first round of this year, especially as it's likely to be in the 10-20 bracket (before FA compo and academy bids are added) that we may target talls, especially as it was reported earlier this year that we had an interest in the Whitlock twins.

The question is how we do it. The obvious one is to trade our F1 for a round 1 this year. Given everyone wants involvement in the draft this year that will be tricky but a couple of options could be:

• Richmond: If they end up with the swag of first rounders as expected, they are almost certainly going to want to move a couple into next year and spread them over a couple of drafts.
• Gold Coast: This is a case of taking advantage of the changes in the points table not coming in until next year. Depending on what Gold Coast have left after acquiring Rioli and Noble, they may look to move at least one first rounder to next year given that they have an academy pick this year under the old points table.
• WA and SA teams: If there are any SA or WA talent they are trying to lure home (I know Warner may be one for the WA teams) the WA and SA teams may look to build up a bit of draft capital to be able to use in those possible trades.

Another way may be to see if we could package up a couple of second rounders we might be able to trade into the first round especially from teams like Carlton, GWS (I think), Brisbane or Gold Coast who have Academy or Father/Son bids to match. We do currently have a second rounder tied to Hawthorn and we possibly have a couple of players in Noble and Richards (the longer we hear nothing about his contract, the more likely it seems he's waiting probably for Port to finish their season) who are possibly going to attract an end of first round or second round selection in trades. Macrae and McInnes may also look to move on for opportunity but I have no idea what they are worth.

Of course it's always possible to trade a player out for picks, but you would have thought we'd have heard of any moves in that direction by now.

For those worrying about McGuane, especially with the new points table, remember that they are also bringing in the trading of picks two years in advance and history tells you that there is likely to be a player looking to be traded next year so I wouldn't panic about needing to have the points for him sorted this year.

I highly doubt Richmond who are in rebuild phase are willing to part with any top 30 picks.

It's a strong draft and they have a strong draft hand.
Perfect timing to load up and spring board back up if the draft is as good as reported.
Means when they do rise they are going to have a very good core group come through together.

 

[Markfs]

Dekka clearly wasn't a good list manager.

But here's my view of what has occured in terms of recruiting.

Took over the reins in about 2004. We recruited a team that won the flag in 2010 and looked capable of a very strong stint at the top. Non-recruiting off field issues resulted in that team blowing up.

So we had to recruit another team and nearly won a flag with the 2018 team. That team included: Pendles, Sidey, Howe, Maynard, JDG, Crisp, Checkers, Cox Elliott, Crisp, Adams, WHE, Moore plus Treloar and Grundy who are still good players. We had the pieces, but list management and coaching issues saw us not do much between 2019 and 2022.

We've had a good run whilst Dekka has been in charge of recruiting, which could have been significantly better but wasn't due to factors outside of recruiting. We recruited well enough for two outstanding periods.

We've had two very good teams recruited in his time that probably had the potential to be great if our other off field areas had been as strong as recruiting.

But drafting seems to have dropped off over recent years, so recruiting might need a shake up in terms of either process or personnel.

i agree entirely SR. Hopefully with the redistribution of graham wright's salary into recruiting, we'll see derek get a pay rise...

 

[Markfs]

Both father son

yes but derek found out that they were related...

 

[SchuPie]

I don’t think that Hine has an aversion to a particular player type tbh, it’s just that he has a rigid rule of best available regardless of list need. From a talent ID perspective it makes sense but from a list management perspective it ends up putting us in the situation we’re currently in. No high end KPP talent coming through in our youth, and us having to try to find established ones to trade in, which is more difficult than it sounds when we’re constantly weakening our own draft hands through unfavourable trades.

I’m hoping that Leppitsch coming in to list management and a better budget will change the way we look at our drafting strategies.

It’s really great watching Logan Morris develop.
Really great.
Really.

 

[Markfs]

Might be waiting on the FS Fraser and 2 Roccas. Just rely on FS to keep coming through.

elon musk says that pie players should be having more babies...

 

[Fat Jesus]

elon musk says that pie players should be having more babies...

He will send them to Mars to start a new world AFL.

 

[Markfs]

Dan McStay!!!Mihocek!!!

well done fat one.... derek was the one that found out that dan was living in brisbane...

 

[Mollythedolly]

The fine isn't so soft. It's a 200% fine.

I don't know if that fine then gets included in the next footy department numbers, but if t does, it's pretty easy to see why clubs don't have a strategy of exceeding the cap.

I thought it was +75%. When did it increase to 200%?

 

[Markfs]

He will send them to Mars to start a new world AFL.

maybe we can relocate the club and make derek president...