List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

[sr36]

We can because I’m definitely of the opinion they’re a factor just in other ways, but I’d highlight three matches where injuries were irrelevant and if we were a finals quality team we’d have won.

• Rd 3 against St Kilda only McStay was missing,
• Rd 16 against GC only McStay, Mitchell, Elliott and Cox were missing and
• Rd 17 against Essendon the same 4 were missing.

Those three flip to wins, which by ladder position a top 8 team should win with 19 of their best 23 available, and we’re currently outside the top 4 on %…

My view is that results are currently so unpredictable because the coaches box is having a bigger influence than ever before with styles getting exposed and exploited.

And we've haven't had a good year in the box.

The preseason changes didn't work and we got torn apart through the midfield - there's 3 games down.

After the bye some quality coaching saw that you could exploit the way we were defending and we were allowing chip kicks and back pedalling too hard,so we got locked into defence. Took too long to adjust. Another 3 games done.

Nil all draws to close out games was found out and we didn't adjust. The Sydney loss and the two draws. We were lucky that we didn't lose a few others with teams missing chances to hit the lead late.

Excellent work though to get us through the injury period.

 

[Vankri]

Fair enough, I don’t think it lands us the picks anyway. His market value is not as high as his value to our team. You may as well trade Jordy to get the right value to add to to get him.

Trying to think of scenarios but to me we’re better off waiting a year and go as hard as we possibly can for LDU or another inside/out mid on the market that would have a lower price point.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

There’s talk of McReery leaving? That would be a serious step backwards for the lost. Young player whose impact has been underrated, it was obvious we were better set up when he came back in to play his forward pressure and +1 at stoppages role.

No there's not.

Someone suggested including him & IQ in a trade for Trac...along with a few high draft picks.

He's far too important to us to even consider trading out, imo.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Yeah they have fallen in with the pack lately. Neither are them are now touted as first rounders. Early on one of them was, and the other later. But now, think both in the 25-40 range.

So they're not as good as they first thought?

That would be a real shame for the Blue Baggers

 

[Jen2310]

So they're not as good as they first thought?

That would be a real shame for the Blue Baggers

They're good, maybe given the depth of this draft it may just be the case of others going ahead of them.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

They're good, maybe given the depth of this draft it may just be the case of others going ahead of them.

Oh.

 

[sr36]

So they're not as good as they first thought?

That would be a real shame for the Blue Baggers

I hope so, but it's the filth. Don't be surprised if they're cheating and have got the brown paper bags out to encourage them to lay low.

 

[Johno9911]

Players drafted after Ash Johnson in 2021 MSD
5. Ned Moyle
8 James Peatling
9 Sam Durham
13 Jed McEntee
20 Jordan Boyd
21 Cooper Sharman
24 Daniel Turner

Aidan Begg also taken after Ash

Bit of an odd thing to post with no context - so would hazard you're either taking irk to the recruitment team or Ash himself.

I think outside of the top three on your list - Moyle, Peatling and Durham, you could make a solid argument that Ash has shown more (or at least the same) at AFL level than any of those others you've listed there. At the time I think Ash made sense as a selection, we were never taking Moyle with our first pick whilst we still had Grundy, DC14 and Cox all on our list, and Ash had produced some great form at the lower levels prior to getting drafted. The fact that in 2022 he finished in our top 10 goalkickers from only 9 games, and finished fourth for our goalkicking just last year shows that he does posses the talent to make it at AFL level, but whether or not the drive/motivation to make a fist of it is there, appears to be the question mark and sadly seems to have curtailed his career at this stage.

At the end of the day Ash was a fine selection for what he was - a speculative mid-season rookie pick up, who produced some great moments for us which includes some fantastic highlights. The fact that others drafted post/around him have, or could potentially, do better is a moot point - as you could pretty much make that argument for any team, in any draft. For context "household names" like Lachlan Hosie, Mitch Riordan and Michael Knoll were all taken before Jonny Noble and Marlion Pickett 2 years earlier - with those 2 combining for 200 games and 2 premiership medals (should've been 3, poor Nobes). In my eyes - if you're going to use a pick on a speculative type like AJ was, the MSD is the place to do it.

 

[stormskye]

Poulter dropped. Will Phillips dropped. Can’t be great for their development…

 

[sr36]

Why delist one of the few depth Talls on our list? His best stuff this year was actually pretty good and, let’s be honest, he’s not boring to watch. Something always happens when Freddie’s near the ball!


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It was a joke about injuries. However I do think he'll get delisted. I love him but u wouldn't Field him in the slips. He can't catch.

 

[Scodog10]

My view is that results are currently so unpredictable because the coaches box is having a bigger influence than ever before with styles getting exposed and exploited.

And we've haven't had a good year in the box.

The preseason changes didn't work and we got torn apart through the midfield - there's 3 games down.

After the bye some quality coaching saw that you could exploit the way we were defending and we were allowing chip kicks and back pedalling too hard,so we got locked into defence. Took too long to adjust. Another 3 games done.

Nil all draws to close out games was found out and we didn't adjust. The Sydney loss and the two draws. We were lucky that we didn't lose a few others with teams missing chances to hit the lead late.

Excellent work though to get us through the injury period.

That’s a good shout! I think their ability to isolate Naicos through that midseason patch was significant in our attempts to fight our way back into it. I believe they can course correct on all that.

The one element to it all that I’m struggling with though is our % because even with the unpredictability of wins and losses sitting at 100% (1 point off parity) after 21 matches is a fair indication of a team that is involved in too many close contests to separate themselves from the middle rungs of the ladder.

 

[FromTheBoundaryLine]

On the back of ludicrous trade speculation to land Petracca. I don’t think there’s any real chance of him leaving unless it’s part of a deal to attract a more realistic target such as Bergman. He’s much loved at the club and plays an important if under appreciated role on here.

We’d lose McCreery’s Mum as well

 

[Scodog10]

Fair enough, I don’t think it lands us the picks anyway. His market value is not as high as his value to our team. You may as well trade Jordy to get the right value to add to to get him.

Trying to think of scenarios but to me we’re better off waiting a year and go as hard as we possibly can for LDU or another inside/out mid on the market that would have a lower price point.

This is what I’d be doing, but my question is why the love for LDU over Rayner? Not talking you here Vank either, but more a general vibe for where the boards preferences lie. Don’t get me wrong in tight LDU is as good as any except Bont and Neale, IMO, as a total package though I’d prefer Rayner.

 

[Pedro]

I don't think it was because we thought it was a strong draft. A few different factors.

1. Salary dumps due to salary cap issues - half our own doing, half covid related.
2. The salary dumps were unpopular and I'm convinced that the trading of our future first for not much was about marketing to appease us angry mob with a big draft haul.
3. Our salary cap strategy wasn't just about the high profile salary dumps - we also cleaned out experienced depth to replace with cheaper kids. Picking up more 18 year olds than normal. And we didn't want all of those draftees to be late picks.

If you go through that draft - it is looking like a dud draft and the last one that you'd want to have loaded up in - but we did. Here's the top 15:

1. Western Bulldogs: Jamarra Ugle-Hagan

2. Adelaide Crows: Riley Thilthorpe

3. North Melbourne: Will Phillips

4. Sydney Swans: Logan McDonald

5. Sydney Swans: Braeden Campbell

6. Hawthorn: Denver Grainger-Barras

7. Gold Coast Suns: Elijah Hollands

8. Essendon: Nikolas Cox

9. Essendon: Archie Perkins

10. Essendon: Zach Reid

11. Adelaide Crows: Luke Pedlar

12. GWS Giants: Tanner Bruhn

13. North Melbourne: Tom Powell

14. Fremantle: Heath Chapman

15. GWS Giants: Conor Stone

16. Port Adelaide: Lachlan Jones

Agree with point 2 espeially. I recall at the time that most clubs were abandoning that draft, yet we loaded up. I'm sure a lot of it was about making up lost ground with the fanbase who were very unhappy after the trade period. Felt that way anyway.

 

[No SPIN]

Like I said .. a lot of clubs who are now playing well, did not play well in the first part of the season when they had a healthy list.

We went 8 weeks winning 6 matches & 2 draws before our next loss, after our first 3 losses at the start of the year. It very easily could have been a run of 8 wins in a row. Monumental effort with the injuries we were copping during that period, imo.

We didn't start the year well in the first 3 rounds, that's not in dispute.

I just happen to think our injuries had a huge impact on our year.

I don't think we've played well this year, I'm not suggesting that we have. I just think if we hadn't been hit by so many injuries every single week, there's a couple of close games we would have won..and we all know finals games are a different type of game & anything can happen. Particularly with our experience.

But it's not going to happen for us this year anyway.

It's okay. We disagree.

Agree - of course an injury list as heavy as ours is a major contributor to our poor results.

 

[Vankri]

This is what I’d be doing, but my question is why the love for LDU over Rayner? Not talking you here Vank either, but more a general vibe for where the boards preferences lie. Don’t get me wrong in tight LDU is as good as any except Bont and Neale, IMO, as a total package though I’d prefer Rayner.

Speaking only for me it’s because of De Goey. As a burst forward mid he’s got some years left (unless we think his groin will hamper the rest of his career) so I’m looking for something we strictly do not have on the list and I see that more in LDU.

But I’d happily over invest in free agents including Rayner now that we’ve fixed our salary cap structure. An easy way to reinforce the list.

 

[JLC]

No there's not.

Someone suggested including him & IQ in a trade for Trac...along with a few high draft picks.

He's far too important to us to even consider trading out, imo.

Pretty sure McCreerys dad came down for the Carlton game. Maybe he attends all games l, I'm not sure but I have it on good authority he was at the Carlton game.

One of the dads at basketball training met him (McCreerys dad) at a pub - two things to come out of it - McCreery loves the club a lot and definitely doesn't want to leave. The second thing was the dad spoke with IQ and gave him the advice of forget about the perfumes and social media and just focus on football.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Pretty sure McCreerys dad came down for the Carlton game. Maybe he attends all games l, I'm not sure but I have it on good authority he was at the Carlton game.

One of the dads at basketball training met him (McCreerys dad) at a pub - two things to come out of it - McCreery loves the club a lot and definitely doesn't want to leave. The second thing was the dad spoke with IQ and gave him the advice of forget about the perfumes and social media and just focus on football.

Good to hear re Beau.

I wonder if Beau's Dad gave similar advice to his son & told him to focus less on his clothing range, cars & social media too Strange.

 

[Fruit]

Marchbank is a spud no way

Marchbank has a lot of bad luck with injury and always finds a way to miss. This year he’s had concussion and COVID. Carlton are always quick to play him when he’s available though which means they rate him.

 

[Kappa]

You sure about that? With HH’s ACL trading McReery could leave us with only Elliott (who’s near done), Schultz (the most maligned player on the list) and Hill as our only small forwards if Richards chooses to leave. We would 100% have to add a mature option if McReery left.

Hill Schultz and Elliot with Richards and Harrison the depth, that's plenty for me. We need more midfield depth not small forwards. Finding a fast player who can apply good pressure is the easiest thing to find in the draft, and u can get em cheap.

De Goey will be spending more and more time forward as he gets to 30 too.

 

[JLC]

Good to hear re Beau.

I wonder if Beau's Dad gave similar advice to his son & told him to focus less on his clothing range, cars & social media too Strange.

Haha I am not sure.

With IQ against Carlton he only had 4 disposals that game.

But I dare say he might give similar advice. Whether Beau listens is an entirely different matter lol

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Haha I am not sure.

With IQ against Carlton he only had 4 disposals that game.

But I dare say he might give similar advice. Whether Beau listens is an entirely different matter lol

Didn't they say he had that toe injury during that game? He's played much better in the past couple games.

I think Beau would listen to his mum more

 

[FromTheBoundaryLine]

Hill Schultz and Elliot with Richards and Harrison the depth, that's plenty for me. We need more midfield depth not small forwards. Finding a fast player who can apply good pressure is the easiest thing to find in the draft, and u can get em cheap.

De Goey will be spending more and more time forward as he gets to 30 too.

I think McCreery will be part of that midfield mix so we’d be losing that as well.

 

[Apex36]

Mcreery was about to be dropped before his injury, he was fumbling everything and giving away frees.

Yes, he was about to be dropped, that’s why he was put straight back in the senior team on his return

 

[soreplums]

Also known as the Dan Rioli collateral

Ahhh… Tu che