be nice if Collingwood found someone actually ...
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List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade & FA 2024
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Buckley outlines what has gone wrong at Collingwood in recent weeks
“I think it’s logical.”
www.sen.com.au
Tadpole
Premium Gold
They might win the Battle, but they won’t win the war.
Agree he is a great kick and better than most at WB.
But that’s clearly not enough for Bevo.
Daniel gets exposed as suggested above - so unless there’s a way to overcome that, then his elite kicking is not enough.
RobJD
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The Hawks as still paying a good chunk of Mitchell's salary.
sr36
TheBrownDog
He'd be worth a shot I think. Can find it and use it from the back half. I get the potential for him to be a defensive liability, but unless we get better at transitioning it than we currently are we'll continue to have to do a heap more defending than we should have to. And if we continue to have our defenders switch opponents the way we currently do, his defensive weaknesses can be mitigated.
sr36
TheBrownDog
He would.
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It's either keep him for 2 more years at 750k or trade him and pay part of his salary
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I’m not too concerned with Bevo’s opinion.
Sounds like that’s just half the Battle
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I actually wouldn’t mind seeing how Reef goes as a half back flank option.
As a club they need to explore the chuck them back before you chuck them out philosophy a bit more IMO.
I reckon part salary pay would be on the cards. Gone from a B&F to barely played. Even with their injuries this year.
Top footy mind but the skill level has dropped away.
sr36
TheBrownDog
Yeah, I would have run him through there by now, but I don't think he's the kicker we need back there. Parker is the only one in the ressies who looks like he could become a good distributor.
We can hope that Parker and Condon play and come on for us. It would def help out with the lack of other upcoming talent we have.
Personally, I'd prefer Daniel over Noble. There's a year between them in age, however Daniel has played 80 more games and to me seems a more versatile player.
He might be small, however I think he makes up for this through his footy IQ and distribution. In contrast, Noble's run and effort are his outstanding attributes, however teams have begun to adjust the way in which they defend our transition (as others have noted), by forcing Noble and our other backs to kick long to a contest, which dilutes our potency and makes us more predictable.
Daniel's hands are pretty good in traffic and his kicking is elite - for me he'd be capable of providing some decent minutes in the midfield and would give us the option of using him as a link between half back and midfield, or a midfielder who starts at half forward and becomes the extra player at stoppage.
Defensively, we play in a zonal system which should somewhat alleviate his obvious deficiencies, although these won't be entirely negated. There are two caveats I have if we seek to recruit him:
He might be small, however I think he makes up for this through his footy IQ and distribution. In contrast, Noble's run and effort are his outstanding attributes, however teams have begun to adjust the way in which they defend our transition (as others have noted), by forcing Noble and our other backs to kick long to a contest, which dilutes our potency and makes us more predictable.
Daniel's hands are pretty good in traffic and his kicking is elite - for me he'd be capable of providing some decent minutes in the midfield and would give us the option of using him as a link between half back and midfield, or a midfielder who starts at half forward and becomes the extra player at stoppage.
Defensively, we play in a zonal system which should somewhat alleviate his obvious deficiencies, although these won't be entirely negated. There are two caveats I have if we seek to recruit him:
- We need to recruit another defensive pillar who is capable of freeing up Moore to play the intercept role. It feels like we have been one quality key position defender short this season which has had a domino effect on the team.
- We also need to recruit a midfield stopper. Too many times on Friday night Dangerfield or another Cats midfielder was able to burst from stoppage and send Geelong into its forward 50. It was especially noticeable at centre bounce, which we lost on a consistent basis.
No they aren't. The last year of his contract at Hawks was 2023.
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Hawks will pay traded stars O’Meara, Mitchell $750,000 in 2023
Hawthorn will pay about $750,000 next year for the salaries of traded veterans Tom Mitchell and Jaeger O’Meara, who will be playing at other clubs.
FromTheBoundaryLine
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Harrison? I’ve toyed with this idea because I like him in the team and there will be a squeeze coming up for our smalls.
sr36
TheBrownDog
I'd love us to add a kpd to upgrade Frampton. Shift WHE back to release Maynard into more of a flanker role and add Daniel or someone else who can kick it better than what we've got in the back half atm.
Indicative draft order: Freo holds best hand ahead of trade raid
The Dockers hold the best draft hand in the competition after their moves last year
www.afl.com.au
Picks 26, 44 and 45 atm.
Might be able to package up 44 and 45 to move up ever so slightly if we like a player still around or use them in a lipinski type trade
All moving parts atm obviously
Until we know what changes the AFL is making to the F/S and Academy (both types) bidding processes and with future trading and when these changes come into effect it’s difficult to accurately assess what we have to play with.
And the mixed messages coming through about what we are doing at the end of the season makes it difficult to predict what we are going to do at the end of the season.
And the mixed messages coming through about what we are doing at the end of the season makes it difficult to predict what we are going to do at the end of the season.
sr36
TheBrownDog
I think we'll still be in trying to win the flag mode. So I'm expecting a couple of top ups.
The hard thing is going to be creating list space. I think we've stuffed up with a couple of extensions - Johnson and Macrae - in particular. I don't think we'll want to keep them and will struggle to find a new home for either of them.
Caleb Daniel ain’t the solution (nor part thereof) to our lack of run & ability to move it from D50 and he would get mercilessly exposed down back defensively, as has happened at the Bulldogs.
Our zonal defence doesn’t mitigate his lack of height, it exacerbates it. If you play 1v1 man-on-man (which hardly anyone does anymore) you pick the guy that matches your height /weight /mobility etc and go and defend him. Even if you’re taken to the goals-square at least you have the best ‘physical match’ available from the oppo’s attack. If, however, you play a step-forward /next-man-roll defence, which we do, then you could roll across to guard or defend someone much taller & heavier than you. One of the reasons why Noble was dropped end of last year bc he consistently became the weak link in a rolling defensive chain. Daniels likewise, would be a massive weakness in this style of system defence.
In any event, before you spend $750k /year on a non-key part of the rebuild jigsaw, Joey Richards could easily play a similar distribution role from half-back at one-fifth of the price. He’s quicker than Daniel’s and, only a handful of games into his career, has way more upside.
Ps: our rebound D50 isn’t currently the ‘burning’ issue, in fact, we’re still heavily skewed scoring profile wise, in D50 transition goals.
What’s fallen away heavily is
i. leaking goals in transition (system defence from f50 to d50 is broken);
ii. getting destroyed at CB & losing clearance (Pendles too slow; JDG lacking defensive intent; lack of other viable options to roll through eg. McCreery, Hill, Elliott, Maynard ..need more soldiers that can go into CB, compete & at least break-even) and
iii. inability to gain or sustain territory (playing Coxless and with such an under-sized forward line means we don’t have a down-the-line marking option or presence to aerially contest & bring the ball to ground ..therefore getting stuck in our D50 with repeat entry after repeat entry).
The lack of marking talls also means we have only one route to exit our d50 and that is through run ‘n gun chaos style, either by hand or foot. Oppo teams know this and are shutting it down /pressuring us until we give it back. The lack of a get out of jail tall option (Kreuger can’t mark above his head; WHE is ok one-out but is a flanker punching outside his weight division, Reef is played for 30 seconds at end of games etc) is really hampering our ability to move and control the ball, gain territory and, unsurprisingly, results in this haphazard one quarter “on” and three quarters “defend for your life” outcome.
Run n gun chaos is super tiring and not sustainable for 4Qs. But the burning issue is our inability to defend the ground ie. defensive system broken and individuals also out of form.
Collective defence:
-Method: predisposition to come forward at all costs, irrespective of whether you’re going to impact the ball carrier and/or leave a guy in a more dangerous position, needs to be addressed. Mid-bloc set-up, giving the oppo, free rein to move the ball in their defensive third - and latterly their own half - is also part of the system breaking down
-Attack (1st line of defence) - Lippa too slow can’t close space, Schultz also is not the quickest, missing McCreery speed & manic pressure,
-Mids - often, too many rolling the dice & running forward of the ball
-Defence - defenders out of form (see Moore, IQ), Frampton too reactionary /lacks intensity, Dean very slow off the mark & no jump
Our zonal defence doesn’t mitigate his lack of height, it exacerbates it. If you play 1v1 man-on-man (which hardly anyone does anymore) you pick the guy that matches your height /weight /mobility etc and go and defend him. Even if you’re taken to the goals-square at least you have the best ‘physical match’ available from the oppo’s attack. If, however, you play a step-forward /next-man-roll defence, which we do, then you could roll across to guard or defend someone much taller & heavier than you. One of the reasons why Noble was dropped end of last year bc he consistently became the weak link in a rolling defensive chain. Daniels likewise, would be a massive weakness in this style of system defence.
In any event, before you spend $750k /year on a non-key part of the rebuild jigsaw, Joey Richards could easily play a similar distribution role from half-back at one-fifth of the price. He’s quicker than Daniel’s and, only a handful of games into his career, has way more upside.
Ps: our rebound D50 isn’t currently the ‘burning’ issue, in fact, we’re still heavily skewed scoring profile wise, in D50 transition goals.
What’s fallen away heavily is
i. leaking goals in transition (system defence from f50 to d50 is broken);
ii. getting destroyed at CB & losing clearance (Pendles too slow; JDG lacking defensive intent; lack of other viable options to roll through eg. McCreery, Hill, Elliott, Maynard ..need more soldiers that can go into CB, compete & at least break-even) and
iii. inability to gain or sustain territory (playing Coxless and with such an under-sized forward line means we don’t have a down-the-line marking option or presence to aerially contest & bring the ball to ground ..therefore getting stuck in our D50 with repeat entry after repeat entry).
The lack of marking talls also means we have only one route to exit our d50 and that is through run ‘n gun chaos style, either by hand or foot. Oppo teams know this and are shutting it down /pressuring us until we give it back. The lack of a get out of jail tall option (Kreuger can’t mark above his head; WHE is ok one-out but is a flanker punching outside his weight division, Reef is played for 30 seconds at end of games etc) is really hampering our ability to move and control the ball, gain territory and, unsurprisingly, results in this haphazard one quarter “on” and three quarters “defend for your life” outcome.
Run n gun chaos is super tiring and not sustainable for 4Qs. But the burning issue is our inability to defend the ground ie. defensive system broken and individuals also out of form.
Collective defence:
-Method: predisposition to come forward at all costs, irrespective of whether you’re going to impact the ball carrier and/or leave a guy in a more dangerous position, needs to be addressed. Mid-bloc set-up, giving the oppo, free rein to move the ball in their defensive third - and latterly their own half - is also part of the system breaking down
-Attack (1st line of defence) - Lippa too slow can’t close space, Schultz also is not the quickest, missing McCreery speed & manic pressure,
-Mids - often, too many rolling the dice & running forward of the ball
-Defence - defenders out of form (see Moore, IQ), Frampton too reactionary /lacks intensity, Dean very slow off the mark & no jump
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