List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

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The jouneyman said:
Id like to see battle from St Kilda and barrass,then use Moore on a wing and Howe can be used as a swingman
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I like the idea of Moore on a wing, however it doesn't fix our midfield and clearance issues.

Essendon may be on to something playing Harrison and Cox both on a wing where they're able to drift forward and provide aerial superiority over their respective opponents, moreso Harrison though as Cox doesn't seem to have the competitiveness required to get to the next level.
 
The Magnificent Seven said:
Gee I feel like I've killed Bambi's mum with the hypothetical Moore trade :p Was only ever curiously expanding on a scenario, and I still don't think it would be the end of the world if it happened.

But I would be interested to see what other bolder trade moves we could make to reinvigorate an older, slower list. We have Jamie, Howie who can still put some pace on. But not in the middle, and it's where we seem to get carved up. Besides Nick, and Crispy in some instances, who do we have as clearance monsters who can clear the ball quickly?
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Jordy

I think our issues have been a combination of injuries and game plan no longer holding up in terms of transition in either direction - our method has been studied and pulled apart. List is still fine - we'll try to add a couple and go again with a different system next year.
 
Robroy22 said:
Lol....Darcy's dad ALSO had to contend with playing in 5 losing Grand Finals (and a draw) being captain of losing GF sides and coping with all the turmoil and pressure of the VFL trade wars, administration woes and starting a new family. He went to Melbourne on big dollars and less pressure. And regretted it.

If you've ever met and spoken to Darce, you'd know leaving the club is not on his radar.
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I think Darcy is a dyed in the Wool rather quit footy than leave Collingwood type of man/player (having never met him).
 

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brysie said:
I like the idea of Moore on a wing, however it doesn't fix our midfield and clearance issues.

Essendon may be on to something playing Harrison and Cox both on a wing where they're able to drift forward and provide aerial superiority over their respective opponents, moreso Harrison though as Cox doesn't seem to have the competitiveness required to get to the next level.
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I’ve brought up that suggestion recently. Sort of like Richo toward end of his career and some of Taz. Even though junior years he was a wingman.
 
Jafo said:
I’ve brought up that suggestion recently. Sort of like Richo toward end of his career and some of Taz. Even though junior years he was a wingman.
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The ideal for me would be to play Darcy in a role that's similar to a sweeper in soccer a la Franz Beckenbauer. Starts at the back but is given licence to roam around the field, including initiating and continuing attacks by pushing up the ground and into the forward 50.

Someone would need to sit in for him, so finding the player to drop back and cover is probably the bigger challenge.
 
Anderstake said:
1st rounder and sweetener for Bailey Smith covers the midfield and any players that might drop off with Macrea and Allan to press.

Big big big offer for RFA Todd Marshall to avoid giving up picks, just turned 25, 198cm, almost 2 goal ave, would be the perfect pick up.

That would round us out providing Dean or Eyre comes good as a key defender to cover Howe if he drops off or if we lose Murphy.
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The defensive lineup is on trouble then
 
brysie said:
The ideal for me would be to play Darcy in a role that's similar to a sweeper in soccer a la Franz Beckenbauer. Starts at the back but is given licence to roam around the field, including initiating and continuing attacks by pushing up the ground and into the forward 50.

Someone would need to sit in for him, so finding the player to drop back and cover is probably the bigger challenge.
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See how Eyre might progress or one of our other backs. Maybe even a new recruit.

Can Checkers go back? Yes. I know his worth up forward. But that was his craft too once upon a time.

Look at Taz at the end of his career. Reid. Neon etc.

Even Lobb is looking good at the moment.
 
The Magnificent Seven said:
Gee I feel like I've killed Bambi's mum with the hypothetical Moore trade :p Was only ever curiously expanding on a scenario, and I still don't think it would be the end of the world if it happened.

But I would be interested to see what other bolder trade moves we could make to reinvigorate an older, slower list. We have Jamie, Howie who can still put some pace on. But not in the middle, and it's where we seem to get carved up. Besides Nick, and Crispy in some instances, who do we have as clearance monsters who can clear the ball quickly?
Click to expand...
You don't trade from a list weakness position.
We have limited KPD depth so trading out Moore would only result in a need to bring in another KPD.

To me our list has two areas of depth:
  • Small forwards: Elliott, Hill, Richards, McCreery, WHE, HH
  • Small defenders: IQ, Bruzzy, Noble, Demattia, Jiath, Ryan, Markov, Parker
Realistically due to age, exposed form, etc. the only ones with value are bolded.
Wether or not we would be willing to trade them or could get good value for them is another question.
 
Jafo said:
See how Eyre might progress or one of our other backs. Maybe even a new recruit.

Can Checkers go back? Yes. I know his worth up forward. But that was his craft too once upon a time.

Look at Taz at the end of his career. Reid. Neon etc.

Even Lobb is looking good at the moment.
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I haven't seen anything of Josh Eyre, but I think if he's fit then it's worth debuting him before the season's out.

The ideal player in my opinion is Battle, however I don't like the asking price that is being spoken about. Maybe it's possible to front load his contract for the next 2 years, recognising that he will fill a need in that time, however the length of deal is also concerning as I assume he'll be expecting a long term deal.

Nick Haynes is still tempting, provided any contract we offer him is a short term one. He wouldn't be the ideal and is maybe a break glass type option.
 
Couch Coach said:
You don't trade from a list weakness position.
We have limited KPD depth so trading out Moore would only result in a need to bring in another KPD.

To me our list has two areas of depth:
  • Small forwards: Elliott, Hill, Richards, McCreery, WHE, HH
  • Small defenders: IQ, Bruzzy, Noble, Demattia, Jiath, Ryan, Markov, Parker
Realistically due to age, exposed form, etc. the only ones with value are bolded.
Wether or not we would be willing to trade them or could get good value for them is another question.
Click to expand...
Samll defenders isn't a strength though - despite the numbers - only a couple of them are good.
 
The Magnificent Seven said:
Gee I feel like I've killed Bambi's mum with the hypothetical Moore trade :p Was only ever curiously expanding on a scenario, and I still don't think it would be the end of the world if it happened.

But I would be interested to see what other bolder trade moves we could make to reinvigorate an older, slower list. We have Jamie, Howie who can still put some pace on. But not in the middle, and it's where we seem to get carved up. Besides Nick, and Crispy in some instances, who do we have as clearance monsters who can clear the ball quickly?
Click to expand...
I’m really confident that the only thing standing between Moore’s current performance level and regaining his best form is Collingwood adding a half decent key backman. Doesn’t need to be a superstar, just a solid, dependable player like Murphy was. That will free Moore up to intercept the footy coming in much like 2022 and 2023.
Players that appear available are Keane (Crows), Battle (Saints) and Lobb (Bulldogs). There’s probably others that can be suggested.
Most posters on here don’t want Keane, most think Battle will pick the Hawks.
I suggested Lobb and some posters hated the idea. My rationale was:
1) he’s not the long term solution but a stop gap for a couple of years
2) we lack picks but appear to have some cash so maybe we can acquire him cheaply by taking him off the books for the dogs.
3) Lobb is currently playing tremendous footy and is being praised everywhere except on this forum.
In fact, Lobb may be playing so well that Beveridge wants to keep him now.
Other posters have also cautioned that he has a tendency to only play well in contract years and I take that on board.
However, in line with my thoughts on how to get Moore back to his best, it’s important we grab a key backman and Lobb can also ruck in the backline which enables our ruckman to remain a kick behind the play and mark the ball for when we need to clear our backline.

All that said, I also understand our desperate need for another midfielder because we are getting slaughtered out of the middle at present. Perhaps if the footy is going our way out of the middle more often, then our backline isn’t such an issue? I don’t profess to have the answers, just suggestions. I’m sure these same discussions are being had within the club as we speak.
 
Couch Coach said:
You don't trade from a list weakness position.
We have limited KPD depth so trading out Moore would only result in a need to bring in another KPD.

To me our list has two areas of depth:
  • Small forwards: Elliott, Hill, Richards, McCreery, WHE, HH
  • Small defenders: IQ, Bruzzy, Noble, Demattia, Jiath, Ryan, Markov, Parker
Realistically due to age, exposed form, etc. the only ones with value are bolded.
Wether or not we would be willing to trade them or could get good value for them is another question.
Click to expand...
How do we address our taller defenders though? Besides Moore - and touch wood he won't get injured like he was earlier in his career - we have Big Bad Billy who is B- grade, Howe who is great but bolder, Chaz who is still learning and shows some promise, TJ who is still very raw and... ???? We get some more injuries for 2025 and we're in deep.
 
The Magnificent Seven said:
Gee I feel like I've killed Bambi's mum with the hypothetical Moore trade :p Was only ever curiously expanding on a scenario, and I still don't think it would be the end of the world if it happened.

But I would be interested to see what other bolder trade moves we could make to reinvigorate an older, slower list. We have Jamie, Howie who can still put some pace on. But not in the middle, and it's where we seem to get carved up. Besides Nick, and Crispy in some instances, who do we have as clearance monsters who can clear the ball quickly?
Click to expand...
If you're spit balling why don't you float the idea of trading Nick Daicos! Would get a kings ransom return and get you lots more attention, off you go!
 

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Selwood retired after their 2022 Premiership aged 34. Isaac Smith at 34 the following season. Tom Hawkins at age 35 kicked 49 goals last season from 20 games. One year later he's now kicked 15 goals in 12 games. The end looks to have come.

Dangerfield is 34 and averaging 19.56 disposals (lowest since 2011) this season. He was averaging 27.08 in 2019.

Tuohy turns 35 at the end of the year, Duncan is 33, C. Guthrie soon to be 32, Stewart and Cameron currently 31.

In comparison next season....

Pendlebury will be turning 37 in January. Even by veteran standards that's old. Sorry Pendles. He is averaging 20.67 disposals this season (lowest since 2007). He was averaging 27.29 in 2019.

Howe 35 in June, Sidebottom another January Birthday. He'll be 34. Cox 34 in March. Elliott 33. Hoskin-Elliott 32. Mihocek 32. Mitchell 32. Crisp 32 after the season ends.

My point.

Sure, we saw Geelong bounce this season but I think we all know they aren't winning this years flag either. A prominent poster on this site said they'd miss finals only a month back. While our challenges this season are varied one of them is definitely our midfield and it's why Geelong aren't a legitimate Premiership chance also.

Like Geelong one of problems within that midfield is clearly the age profile and the understandable lessening of output due to age.

While I see a lot of people are backing us to bounce next season I'm less convinced or at least not confident that our Premiership window hasn't now closed in the short term. With a lack of elite young talent seemingly coming through to support Nick (and to pick up the slack of those veterans in decline) I struggle to see how that midfield improves in the short term and propels us back to being a Premiership fancy. At worse I fear our recent form is more indicative of what's to come next season, age has finally caught up with the list and people are currently in a state of shock and denial.

Even if you legitimately believe we can bounce back to being a top 4 contender next season I think there is a couple of lessons some on here can learn from Geelong experience that they are quick to reference.

The first one is that the Geelong bounce this year has come after the retirement of an all time Geelong great at the end of 22 and a 4 time Premiership winger Smith last season.

I think both men are worthy comparisons to Pendlebury and Sidebottom, the decisions that might be made and demonstate that while it's sad when champions of the game retire, clubs go on, opportunities arise for others, fresh faces arrive and it's possible to maintain a level of competitiveness.

The second lesson comes from Tom Hawkins and his decision seemingly to play on for 1 season to many. Even for champions who performed admirably the season before the end can come quickly.

Personally I don't now see a top 4 finsihing position being realistic next season with or without the likes of Pendlebury, Sidebottom or Howe.

I could certainly see us being worse, with our veterans effectively acting as a band aid solution but is that really what's best for the next stage of our list development? That's the hard question we need to ask.

Personally I'm in favour of ripping off some of the band aids and we see what comes of it one way or another.

If we thrive then bloody fantastic. If we dive then at least we know where we stand and our "prize" is a valuable selection in what should be the last of the uncompromised drafts (prior to the Tasmania draft concessions).
 
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Carlthetruth said:
If you're spit balling why don't you float the idea of trading Nick Daicos! Would get a kings ransom return and get you lots more attention, off you go!
Click to expand...
Oh now you're just being silly :p

I was looking at the older end of our list and who still had the better trade currency. Clearly a Moore or DeGoey would command a good price for a team who was looking to balance their youth vs experience if they were in or near a premiership window. And like I said, it was more for curiosity and to see what the pros and cons were.
 
brysie said:
As you've said, the focus should be on targeting big name free agents who will be out of contract at the end of next season, while adding bits and pieces here and there this off-season.

Two big acquisitions that are free agents at the end of 2025 are Darcy Fogarty and LDU.

Fogarty is 24 years old and seems to me to be on the cusp of breaking out as a forward you can build a forward line around, particularly with someone like Dan McStay acting as the taller target. LDU is well-known to most footy observers and presents as the two-way midfielder we need, capable of winning the ball himself but also able to run and spread from contests.

Other notable players who are out of contract at the end of 2025 include Andrew Brayshaw, Finn Callaghan, Tom De Koning, Sam De Koning, Mac Andrew, Leek Aleer, James Worpel, Judd McVee, Noah Balta, Chad Warner, Oscar Allen, Jake Waterman, Marcus Bontempelli and Ed Richards.

Obviously the cost (salary and possible picks) to prise out some of the names above won't be worth the potential reward (e.g. Bontempelli), however the market appears a lot more appealing than this year's free agency/out of contract player market.

We should also give credit to our club's list management team for ensuring that most of our players are under contract until the end of 2025, with Maynard, Hill and Harrison probably being the stand-outs and who I would expect will receive new deals between now and the end of next season anyway.
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Should have just drafted Fogarty (or Naughton for that matter) when we had the chance instead of Jaidyn Stephenson 🙄
 
sr36 said:
It's a complete spud - delist. I blame Hine.
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Bramax said:
I’m really confident that the only thing standing between Moore’s current performance level and regaining his best form is Collingwood adding a half decent key backman. Doesn’t need to be a superstar, just a solid, dependable player like Murphy was. That will free Moore up to intercept the footy coming in much like 2022 and 2023.
Players that appear available are Keane (Crows), Battle (Saints) and Lobb (Bulldogs). There’s probably others that can be suggested.
Most posters on here don’t want Keane, most think Battle will pick the Hawks.
I suggested Lobb and some posters hated the idea. My rationale was:
1) he’s not the long term solution but a stop gap for a couple of years
2) we lack picks but appear to have some cash so maybe we can acquire him cheaply by taking him off the books for the dogs.
3) Lobb is currently playing tremendous footy and is being praised everywhere except on this forum.
In fact, Lobb may be playing so well that Beveridge wants to keep him now.
Other posters have also cautioned that he has a tendency to only play well in contract years and I take that on board.
However, in line with my thoughts on how to get Moore back to his best, it’s important we grab a key backman and Lobb can also ruck in the backline which enables our ruckman to remain a kick behind the play and mark the ball for when we need to clear our backline.

All that said, I also understand our desperate need for another midfielder because we are getting slaughtered out of the middle at present. Perhaps if the footy is going our way out of the middle more often, then our backline isn’t such an issue? I don’t profess to have the answers, just suggestions. I’m sure these same discussions are being had within the club as we speak.
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We could get Lobb with a nice payrise also "Lobb, who began his career with GWS then made his way to Fremantle, joined the Bulldogs at the end of 2022 on a three-year contract worth a reported $1.5 million" aka $500 k p.a
 
Daicosian silk said:
Should have just drafted Fogarty (or Naughton for that matter) when we had the chance instead of Jaidyn Stephenson 🙄
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Yeh, in hindsight.

Who knows though, maybe Fogarty or Naughton wouldn't have developed the same way they have at their respective clubs if we had drafted them and subsequently moved back to WA or been traded as part of salary cap easing.
 
The Magnificent Seven said:
Gee I feel like I've killed Bambi's mum with the hypothetical Moore trade :p Was only ever curiously expanding on a scenario, and I still don't think it would be the end of the world if it happened.

But I would be interested to see what other bolder trade moves we could make to reinvigorate an older, slower list. We have Jamie, Howie who can still put some pace on. But not in the middle, and it's where we seem to get carved up. Besides Nick, and Crispy in some instances, who do we have as clearance monsters who can clear the ball quickly?
Click to expand...

Moore has had a shocking 2024 season but he’s worth more to us (in the hope he recaptures form) than he is in a trade.

Nobody would pay up what it would take.
 
swoop42 said:
Selwood retired after their 2022 Premiership aged 34. Isaac Smith at 34 the following season. Tom Hawkins at age 35 kicked 49 goals last season from 20 games. One year later he's now kicked 15 goals in 12 games. The end looks to have come.

Dangerfield is 34 and averaging 19.56 disposals (lowest since 2011) this season. He was averaging 27.08 in 2019.

Tuohy turns 35 at the end of the year, Duncan is 33, C. Guthrie soon to be 32, Stewart currently 31.

In comparison next season....

Pendlebury will be turning 37 in January. Even by veteran standards that's old. Sorry Pendles. He is averaging 20.67 disposals this season (lowest since 2007). He was averaging 27.29 in 2019.

Howe 35 in June, Sidebottom another January Birthday. He'll be 34. Cox 34 in March. Elliott 33. Hoskin-Elliott 32. Mihocek 32. Mitchell 32. Crisp 32 after the season ends.

My point.

Sure, we saw Geelong bounce this season but I think we all know they aren't winning this years flag either. A prominent poster on this site said they'd miss finals only a month back. While our challenges this season are varied one of them is definitely our midfield and it's why Geelong aren't a legitimate Premiership chance also.

Like Geelong one of problems within that midfield is clearly the age profile and the understandable lessening of output due to age.

While I see a lot of people are backing us to bounce next season I'm less convinced or at least not confident that our Premiership window hasn't now closed in the short term. With a lack of elite young talent seemingly coming through to support Nick (and to pick up the slack of those veterans in decline) I struggle to see how that midfield improves in the short term and propels us back to being a Premiership fancy. At worse I fear our recent form is more indicative of what's to come next season, age has finally caught up with the list and people are currently in a state of shock and denial.

Even if you legitimately believe we can bounce back to being a top 4 contender next season I think there is a couple of lessons some on here can learn from Geelong experience that they are quick to reference.

The first one is that the Geelong bounce this year has come after the retirement of an all time Geelong great at the end of 22 and a 4 time Premiership winger Smith last season.

I think both men are worthy comparisons to Pendlebury and Sidebottom, the decisions that might be made and demonstate that while it's sad when champions of the game retire, clubs go on, opportunities arise for others, fresh faces arrive and it's possible to maintain a level of competitiveness.

The second lesson comes from Tom Hawkins and his decision seemingly to play on for 1 season to many. Even for champions who performed admirably the season before the end can come quickly.

Personally I don't now see a top 4 finsihing position being realistic next season with or without the likes of Pendlebury, Sidebottom or Howe.

I could certainly see us being worse, with our veterans effectively acting as a band aid solution but is that really what's best for the next stage of our list development? That's the hard question we need to ask.

Personally I'm in favour of ripping off some of the band aids and we see what comes of it one way or another.

If we thrive then bloody fantastic. If we dive then at least we know where we stand and our "prize" is a valuable selection in what should be the last of the uncompromised drafts (prior to the Tasmania draft concessions).
Click to expand...
I could not agree more, I kind of think youth is now the name of the game. 2022 and 2023 were great years and we do have some talent on our list that we don't want to waste. But I think people on here think we will waste our talent if we bottom out but you can also waste your talent by pasting bandaids over list cracks and remaining at the bottom with older players.

Hopes and prayers we somehow manage to scrape together a pick between 15-20 (Carlton or Brisbane's 1st for F/S) this year and get a player before our Thomas McGuane bid next year.
 
KillerMagpies said:
Hey guys, do you realise we swapped 2nd round picks with the Hawks this year… lol!!
Fly is learning that we lose like losers, because we ARE losers!
FFS… 😂😂😂
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Hmmm. May only be 1 or two spots in the second round. Not that bigger deal from our perspective. If we somehow finish above them then we are still in front.....just
 
The Phantom said:
Gotta say, I can’t believe some of the hysterical tripe being suggested and posted here.

You’d think it’s the Richmond board.

I’m still basking in the glow of a premiership and an amazing 2 year ride. Wouldn’t trade it for the world.

Sure, the house needs a little renovating. We’ll work through it.

Can we trade a few posters instead?
Click to expand...

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List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

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