List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

[soreplums]

I personally hope it’s true.

McStay, Cox, Checkers, Walker….

 

[satanshoof101]

View attachment 2076379

“It’s certainly a phenomenon in all walks of life”
- “What do you mean?”
-“Well, at one time, you've got it, and then you lose it, and it's gone forever. All walks of life: George Best, for example. Had it, lost it. Or David Bowie, or Derek Hine”
-“Derek Hine? Some of his recent drafting is not bad
-“No, it's not bad, but it's not great either. And in your heart you kind of know that although it looks alright, it’s actually just shite.”
-“Ok so what’s the point you are trying to make?”
-“All I'm trying to do is help you understand that Father-Son selections are merely a blip on an otherwise uninterrupted downward trajectory.
-“What about Harvey Harrison?”
-“I don’t rate him at all.”
-“Despite the Rising Star nomination?”
-“That means **** all. It’s a sympathy vote”
-“Right. So we all get old then we can’t hack it anymore. Is that it?”
-“Yeah”
-“That’s your theory?”
-Yeah! Beautifully ******* illustrated”

You are my hero

 

[Harry O]

I actually am.

Oh dear….

 

[sr36]

Sorry if the list if off topic

Looking at the below, it would be interesting to debate Hine’s impact on the 2023 premiership

Murphy - slid to pick 39 2017 - recruiting

Moore - FS (injured 2018) Lucky

Howe - trade - football department

Maynard - pick 30 2014 recruiting

Frampton - trade - recruiting

Q - NGA - Lucky

Sidey - 2005! - Good drafting

Pendles - 2005! - drafting

Markov - SSP - football department

Hill - trade - recruiting/football department

Checkers - Rookie recruiting

Billy - pre draft trade - recruiting

Beau - pick 44 2020 - recruiting

JDG - pick 5 2014 - recruiting

Jaicos - FS (but taken as a “live” pick) - recruiting

Naicos - FS luck

Crisp - steak knives 2014 - recruiting

Cox - Cat b years ago - recruiting

Titch - trade - footy department

Cameron - trade - recruiting

WHE - trade - recruiting/footy department

Ginni - rookie - recruiting

Lippa - trade - recruiting/footy department

A lot depends on who does what regarding recruitment of players from other lists - and there's a fair bit of guesswork on my behalf, but my assumption is that a bloke like Cameron was the product of the recruitment department's scouting, whereas Titch would have been overall footy department decision where the recruiters are just a vote with coach and list manager holding more sway. With some of the guys who were more exposed but not established like WHE and Hill, I think that the recruiters would do a heap of work in order to assess them - a bit of a combination of recruiter and footy department. I've highlighted what I think is likely to have played the biggest role in getting the bloke to the club

Premiership teams come from about 15 years of recruiting (18 in our case). We added about 8-10 blokes a year - heaps of misses, a lot of trades that didn't help us get there, as well as some great trades and great drafting with the added luck of father son and academy access players. We won that flag having been significantly above average for the relevant years - and thus having been given below average recruiting chips by the AFL. Overall, building a premiership team is bloody good recruiting. And whilst Dekka has been in charge, we've recruited two very different premiership teams with only two pieces overlapping.

 

[KillerMagpies]

In every case Coll has done the same thing.
Hawks Mids - just natural maturity and development of youth. No different to JDG, Pendles, Sidey coming of age.
Geel - we converted Brodie from back to fwd, Howe from fwd to back. Turned an American into an excellent Ruckman. Converted a reject in Markov to a premiership player, similarly an outcast in Frampton. Turned Cameron into what’s looking like an AA Ruckman.
GWS - restart of Hogan is no different to what we’ve done with Brodie, Howe, Markov, Noble etc
Dogs - our record of Finals and GF’s and Flags since 2016 is better.
I think Richards and West are example of good development, but current success is due to high draft picks.

In summary I don’t see huge advantages in player development from any of your examples over Coll.

All the players you mentioned were from Buck’s/Malthouse era. Fly simply put the full stop on their work.
Markov has gone backwards and is worthy of delisting.
Nick Daicos started training with us when Bucks was around (I would imagine the same will happen with McGuane). Over the past 3 years, Fly has brought no kids along that has claimed their place and improved.
Bucks had: DeGoey, Moore, Murphy, Cameron, Cox, Checkers, Langdon, Bruz, Grundy, Phillips… even Mayne was re-tooled.
Malthouse: Thomas, Pendles, Rocca, Sidebottom, Beams, Wellingham, Reid, Brown, Blair, Macaffer, Anthony, Swan, Fraser, Davis (Nick and Leon).
McCrae….?
Who?
That’s on McCrae (as head coach) and his team of coaches. Not one junior has come in and come on. He has nothing to replenish with. I can only see us sliding down the ladder unless he pulls out a rabbit. Heat will be on next year.
12 months is a long time in football.
We’ve had a great time giving eachother tongue baths in 2024. He needs to do a lot of re-tooling during summer or shit’s gonna get ugly real quick.

 

[KillerMagpies]

Which opportunity starved young talent?

Fin Macrae has had ample opportunities.

Correct. He hasn’t been able to stake his claim. He was given chances.
Ditto McInness.
Allen and Ryan have been around for 2 years.
Nothing. None of em.

 

[KillerMagpies]

Strong word is, Keane and Berry across from the Crows. I’m tipping JFN will go home as part of the deal.
Johnno as steak knives. I can imagine we’ll pay part of his last year (just to get rid of him).
Plus either McCrae/McInness/Steene or a second rounder (weren’t the Crows keen on Steene at the end of 2023).
Offloading JFN will create a large need for a good user out of defence. We have the cap space. I can see us making a play for Perryman (UFA).
So, getting Keane, Berry, Perryman
and losing cash + Johnson, Steene, JFN would be awesome!

 

[Jen2310]

Strong word is, Keane and Berry across from the Crows. I’m tipping JFN will go home as part of the deal.
Johnno as steak knives. I can imagine we’ll pay part of his last year (just to get rid of him).
Plus either McCrae/McInness/Steene or a second rounder (weren’t the Crows keen on Steene at the end of 2023).
Offloading JFN will create a large need for a good user out of defence. We have the cap space. I can see us making a play for Perryman (UFA).
So, getting Keane, Berry, Perryman
and losing cash + Johnson, Steene, JFN would be awesome!

Steene is about to sign a new contract.
Not sure why noble would go home when his parents live in QLD and his twin brother is in vic - or was, not sure where he lives atm.

 

[KillerMagpies]

Steene is about to sign a new contract.
Not sure why noble would go home when his parents live in QLD and his twin brother is in vic - or was, not sure where he lives atm.

How do we make this Berry + Keane thing (which is the strong word) happen?

 

[Jen2310]

How do we make this Berry + Keane thing (which is the strong word) happen?

Not sure.
Maybe Johnson and a future 2nd?


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[KillerMagpies]

Not sure.
Maybe Johnson and a future 2nd?


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Johnson and a future 2nd for Berry + Keane?
I’d imagine Crows would tell us to go pound sand.

 

[Jen2310]

Johnson and a future 2nd for Berry + Keane?
I’d imagine Crows would tell us to go pound sand.

Okay
We'll throw in a third.
Not sure what they expect, we don't have a big currency hand, and we plan on going to the draft for some talls.
maybe a swap of picks or something
Although with the improvement of Long, I wonder if they may see there may not be as much need for Berry. Time will tell.

 

[KillerMagpies]

Okay
We'll throw in a third.
Not sure what they expect, we don't have a big currency hand, and we plan on going to the draft for some talls.
maybe a swap of picks or something
Although with the improvement of Long, I wonder if they may see there may not be as much need for Berry. Time will tell.

3rd rounder is a junk pick. Noble slots into that defence and makes them automatically better. McInness has size and speed and can still be reprogrammed to play mid.
I’m seeing one of those two, future second and Johnno as steak knives.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Genuinely want your thoughts

• what would you consider cheap?
• what would we be prepared to offer?
• what would GC want?
• what would we want if he was ours?

He might explode as a better version of WHE if he came to us or he might be a trade bust.

Just my opinion but I think we’d be better off banking our picks and looking to add more, or rather, upgrade them

1. F2nd and some sweeteners
2. As above
3. 1st round pick to even sit down at the negotiation table
4. Him to deliver to his potential, Knightmare deserves that.

We’re never going to get him cheap. Doubt GC would even contemplate letting him go but I don’t know how desperate they are for salary cap relief. He’s out of favor this week but that can change quickly. I’m with you, I’d always rather bank the picks and hit the draft or at a minimum, look for a cheaper option from them like a Davies who plays a position of greater need.

 

[PIE-BOI]

Jack Macrae had a good game in the VFL, 37 touches 2 goals, 17 clearances. Could be handy if it's a salary dump type deal from the dogs.

 

[Drought Break]

Johnson and a future 2nd for Berry + Keane?
I’d imagine Crows would tell us to go pound sand.

Johnson would be worth zero, would not get a game with any club. Better to not insult another club with putting him up as a possible trade.

 

[JLC]

Okay
We'll throw in a third.
Not sure what they expect, we don't have a big currency hand, and we plan on going to the draft for some talls.
maybe a swap of picks or something
Although with the improvement of Long, I wonder if they may see there may not be as much need for Berry. Time will tell.

I don't think the Crows need another forward. They are already stacked.

 

[The Phantom]

Name me 5 teams that won last years flag?

 

[Ugene41]

Correct. He hasn’t been able to stake his claim. He was given chances.
Ditto McInness.
Allen and Ryan have been around for 2 years.
Nothing. None of em.

Bytel, Long, Sullivan and Markov have been given way more chances and not been able to stake their claim.

Macrae/Reef/Allan/Ryan have not had the same chances and have shown more attributes in the limited opportunities that they have had.

 

[Ugene41]

Not sure.
Maybe Johnson and a future 2nd?


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This isn't the year to be trading out future 2nds. We need to bank as many F2s as possible to match Mcguane and hopefully still take a F1 next year (or trade it out for another first rounder)

This might be the year to just sit and do nothing to limit the damage of another Schultz/Ginnivan type trade period. Especially when the names that might come are Keane and Berry...

 

[sr36]

3rd rounder is a junk pick. Noble slots into that defence and makes them automatically better. McInness has size and speed and can still be reprogrammed to play mid.
I’m seeing one of those two, future second and Johnno as steak knives.

Players choose the club. Not often anymore that you get player to club to pay for another player.

 

[Anzacday]

Name me 5 teams that won last years flag?

Has your account been hacked?

 

[NMBB]

Macrae/Reef/Allan/Ryan have not had the same chances and have shown more attributes in the limited opportunities that they have had.

Ed Allan has had 1? game - our VFL is sh#te so where's the evidence on his potential?

 

[KillerMagpies]

Johnson would be worth zero, would not get a game with any club. Better to not insult another club with putting him up as a possible trade.

The other club would be helping us, even if we paid his last year.

 

[Harry O]

This isn't the year to be trading out future 2nds. We need to bank as many F2s as possible to match Mcguane and hopefully still take a F1 next year (or trade it out for another first rounder)

This might be the year to just sit and do nothing to limit the damage of another Schultz/Ginnivan type trade period. Especially when the names that might come are Keane and Berry..

Correct - do not at any point over pay for C graders like Keane or Berry. Ok at the right price