List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

[LuckyLee]

Don't be surprised if McInnes is at the Saints next year

Straight swap for King or would the Saints have to throw in a sweetener?


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[Jafo]

Normally I would agree with you - that it's a bit of gamble taking on a player at a high value of the back of a significant injury.

However Trac seems a very determined and professional bloke - he's very big on looking after his body/recovering well, works hard on his nutrition and exercise - and as reference idolizes our own Scott Pendlebury for his work and diligence to recovery and health etc

If there was a player you'd be comfortable taking a bit of the injury risk on - it's these caliber players that you know will do everything in their power to be top-shape every time they step on the field.

I’d take the punt on Trac. I mean, if we did a medical (guessing club was at least considering) on Wingard I’d definitely take a punt on Trac.

Getting the deal done is the hardest part if it came about.

 

[sr36]

Personally I think it’s a last Hail Mary at a premiership before the absolute cliff comes for this team. It’s one I’d rather not take.

We need to rebuild our list with youth. As great as Petracca is right at this stage, he will be 29 years old before the start of next season and is on a massive contract with 5 years left.

Given his playing style I can’t see him maintaining his output until the end of that deal. Similar to Dusty, who only just turned 33 and dropped off a cliff in terms of performance for the last couple of years, I can see the same happening with Petracca.

Ultimately IMO we’d be paying a ridiculous amount for 3 years of top shelf football from him.

Depending on who it cost to get him, it'd extend our window significantly.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

I think we are no chance of getting Christian. However, if we packaged up Reef & Fin for an early/mid 2nd rounder, that would help.

Future first & multiple 2nds for Petrecca.

 

[Couch Coach]

I’d take the punt on Trac. I mean, if we did a medical (guessing club was at least considering) on Wingard I’d definitely take a punt on Trac.

Getting the deal done is the hardest part if it came about.

Wingard was being demoted from the main list to the rookie list.
We would have got him as a DFA i.e. cost nothing other than his wage.

 

[JoinDate]

How?

Squats, mainly.

 

[Scodog10]

Don't be surprised if McInnes is at the Saints next year

That would be an intersting move with Sharman, Owens, Camaniti, Membrey, Howard and Wilkie ahead of him in the various roles he could play, but with the impending departure of Battle and limited alternatives it may be the best he can do. Especially considering his time at Collingwood as a forward looks done and Keane likely on the way down back.

 

[larrikan]

Just a fun question…if Reef, Macrae and Allan were available in this years draft from what we know where would you rate them.

I guess my thinking is if you rated Reef around pick 35 would the pick 35 player be a better prospect.

I know we have to turn over the list but where do people rate them?


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[Dead Eye Didak]

That would be an intersting move with Sharman, Owens, Camaniti, Membrey, Howard and Wilkie ahead of him in the various roles he could play, but with the impending departure of Battle and limited alternatives it may be the best he can do. Especially considering his time at Collingwood as a forward looks done and Keane likely on the way down back.

Membrey won't be at the Saints next year

 

[Chrispiesssss]

We must be going for another premiership push. Keeping all the oldies is a big indication we are trying to poach someone I reckon.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

I think we are no chance of getting Christian. However, if we packaged up Reef & Fin for an early/mid 2nd rounder, that would help.

Future first & multiple 2nds for Petrecca.

Would have to be 2 firsts and a young player eg. Allan

 

[Roverjg]

Straight swap for King or would the Saints have to throw in a sweetener?


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Ha. I had forgotten about King. How well have the Saints gone in his absence

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[Rusty Beam]

Depending on who it cost to get him, it'd extend our window significantly.

I reckon with our list profile it would give us another 2 years.

Then we’d hit a West Coast’esque cliff right as Tassie is primed to enter the comp and drain the talent pool.

It’s a massive risk to take and could set us back for a significant period of time. Not one I’d be willing to take with our lack of young talent.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Normally I would agree with you - that it's a bit of gamble taking on a player at a high value of the back of a significant injury.

However Trac seems a very determined and professional bloke - he's very big on looking after his body/recovering well, works hard on his nutrition and exercise - and as reference idolizes our own Scott Pendlebury for his work and diligence to recovery and health etc

If there was a player you'd be comfortable taking a bit of the injury risk on - it's these caliber players that you know will do everything in their power to be top-shape every time they step on the field.

If he came to the Pies, you'd feel he would work closely with Pendles to help him get back to the best condition possible...

 

[Ugene41]

I think we are no chance of getting Christian. However, if we packaged up Reef & Fin for an early/mid 2nd rounder, that would help.

Future first & multiple 2nds for Petrecca.

That's basically the cost of Schultz

 

[Vankri]

Personally I think it’s a last Hail Mary at a premiership before the absolute cliff comes for this team. It’s one I’d rather not take.

We need to rebuild our list with youth. As great as Petracca is right at this stage, he will be 29 years old before the start of next season and is on a massive contract with 5 years left.

Given his playing style I can’t see him maintaining his output until the end of that deal. Similar to Dusty, who only just turned 33 and dropped off a cliff in terms of performance for the last couple of years, I can see the same happening with Petracca.

Ultimately IMO we’d be paying a ridiculous amount for 3 years of top shelf football from him.

I don’t mean to single you out but I disagree with all of the thinking here.

Our current draft hand is poor. We’re about to finish mid ladder and have given our future first and next year our picks will likely be used for points for McGuane.

If there ever was a way you can bring Petracca (future first, players) then you just have to do it. It’s the area of the ground were poorest in and he’s top 5 in the comp there.

At the very worst all it does it delays a full rebuild by a year. If we’re out of contention next year all you have to do is not renew our veterans, not trade your picks and you can have your rebuild. The salary you pay Trac becomes negligible if all we’re doing is picking up his current contract negotiated pre new tv rights. And even then free agency and picks trading for f/s and academies have changed the game in this regard, we do not need years and years at the bottom to rebuild as long as we remain an attractive club.

On the injury risk itself, it’s not an acl nor a repeat hamstring or soft tissue so with a professional like him I don’t see the issue. Dusty and Trac may play similarly in some aspects but they are nothing alike in preparation. Petracca plays a mid season game against North Melbourne like it’s a Grand Final, Dusty plays like it’s pub football.

 

[Ugene41]

I reckon with our list profile it would give us another 2 years.

Then we’d hit a West Coast’esque cliff right as Tassie is primed to enter the comp and drain the talent pool.

It’s a massive risk to take. Not one I’d be willing to take with our lack of young talent.

Agreed. If we still want to top up for one last crack with Pendles/Howe/Sidebottom, we would be much better off getting a 31 year old Parker for cheap instead of continuing to mortgage our future. Parker would have a good 1-2 years which will better align with our expected drop off when our veterans retire.

 

[Couch Coach]

Would have to be 2 firsts and a young player eg. Allan

There are firsts and firsts.
Round 1 last year went to Pick 29.

You would think it would have to be 1 x top 10 and 1 x 10-20 plus a player as a minimum unless his contract is heavily back ended.

If I was Melbourne I would be doing everything to keep him even if it was getting rid of the coach, doctor, Oliver?, etc.

 

[Rusty Beam]

I don’t mean to single you out but I disagree with all of the thinking here.

Our current draft hand is poor. We’re about to finish mid ladder and have given our future first and next year our picks will likely be used for points for McGuane.

If there ever was a way you can bring Petracca (future first, players) then you just have to do it. It’s the area of the ground were poorest in and he’s top 5 in the comp there.

At the very worst all it does it delays a full rebuild by a year. If we’re out of contention next year all you have to do is not renew our veterans, not trade your picks and you can have your rebuild. The salary you pay Trac becomes negligible if all we’re doing is picking up his current contract negotiated pre new tv rights. And even then free agency and picks trading for f/s and academies have changed the game in this regard, we do not need years and years at the bottom to rebuild as long as we remain an attractive club.

On the injury risk itself, it’s not an acl nor a repeat hamstring or soft tissue so with a professional like him I don’t see the issue. Dusty and Trac may play similarly in some aspects but they are nothing alike in preparation. Petracca plays a mid season game against North Melbourne like it’s a Grand Final, Dusty plays like it’s pub football.

You seem to completely disregarding the picks we will have to use to acquire him. Or the very few talented younger players we’d have to trade out to acquire picks.

That will mean even less young talent coming onto our already very old list.

I think you are also underselling Dusty. Supposedly he’s one of the hardest trainers going around…

But if you don’t like him as a comparison. How about Dangerfield whose output has also similarly dropped off for the last 2-3 or so years? Or the litany of other midfield champions who all retired around 31-33 years of age, after declining in their last few years.

 

[Jafo]

That would be an intersting move with Sharman, Owens, Camaniti, Membrey, Howard and Wilkie ahead of him in the various roles he could play, but with the impending departure of Battle and limited alternatives it may be the best he can do. Especially considering his time at Collingwood as a forward looks done and Keane likely on the way down back.

Hawks mate reckons Battle is gonna stay a Saint

 

[No SPIN]

Tend to agree. I think it will take him an entire season to find fitness and form.

Still can’t get his HR over 110 for extended periods.

Where did you hear that?

 

[Scodog10]

I reckon with our list profile it would give us another 2 years.

Then we’d hit a West Coast’esque cliff right as Tassie is primed to enter the comp and drain the talent pool.

It’s a massive risk to take and could set us back for a significant period of time. Not one I’d be willing to take with our lack of young talent.

That’s a touch pessimistic on the fitness of JDG, IMO. With a core mid group of Petracca, Naicos and JDG you aren’t needing to do anything much to fill the rest of the midfield pieces. I’d be willing to wear a Richmond like drop down the ladder if it meant extending our window by a further 3 years which this would because Petracca is more Dangerfield than Martin. It’s also exactly what Geelong did by securing Cameron who was 8 months younger when he joined the Cats.

 

[TW Sherrin]

That’s a touch pessimistic on the fitness of JDG, IMO. With a core mid group of Petracca, Naicos and JDG you aren’t needing to do anything much to fill the rest of the midfield pieces. I’d be willing to wear a Richmond like drop down the ladder if it meant extending our window by a further 3 years which this would because Petracca is more Dangerfield than Martin. It’s also exactly what Geelong did by securing Cameron who was 8 months younger when he joined the Cats.

Can't see how we can get a deal done on Petracca. the cost will be 2 first's and they'd expect one of them to be inside 10.

Oliver is a high risk vs high reward deal and maybe cheaper on the trade table. Get Melbourne to pay some of his cash.

The other player is Smith. That seems to have gone cold.

 

[No SPIN]

Will Trac be missing a block of footy early next season. I thought he said on Nova, that he wouldn't be doing anything to physical for another few months or early into next year.
The only concern would be the weight loss and muscle mass, and how long it takes for him to be able to get back into full fitness and ready for the physicality of AFL footy...

I hadn’t heard any of this, which now makes me very circumspect about him getting back to his best. ( for his sake I hope he recovers completely).
How to you value him and negotiate given this uncertainty?

It only makes sense to offer unders to what his value would have been before the injury.

 

[Vankri]

You seem to completely disregarding the picks we will have to use to acquire him. Or the very few talented younger players we’d have to trade out to acquire picks.

That will mean even less young talent coming onto our already very old list.

I think you are also underselling Dusty. Supposedly he’s one of the hardest trainers going around…

But if you don’t like him as a comparison. How about Dangerfield whose output has also similarly dropped off for the last 2-3 or so years? Or the litany of other midfield champions who all retired around 31-33 years of age, after declining in their last few years.

I agree that I don’t think we have the trade capital to make it happen but I’m just going with the scenarios floated here for the sake of the argument (say Reef IQ Future first and second for example). Yes it’s a steep price but maybe I just don’t rate them as highly as you do.

Don’t think Petracca has had anywhere near the injury history as Danger has had but I’m going off the top of my head. I just don’t see it as a big factor (bar needing a medical to see how he is right now).

I also think we have one and max two more years of Pendles being decent and Howe, Elliott and WHE performing as strongly they are. I want to try again with them next year before calling the window shut as their talent is still shining. We really weren’t that far off this year and I reckon it had more to do with injuries and struggles in the coaches box than it had to do with the list, except in that very position Trac would fill.