News Collingwood's Best 22 - Herald Sun Predictions

[SpongePie]

Sorry to disappoint you and others in this forum section but Maxwell is doing a Dustin Fletcher, ONE season at a time and if his body is fine and he is enjoying it still, he'll play the next season. I know this for a fact.

On the captaincy front, Maxwell is still captain HOWEVER he has suggested to the club that he can be a leader without the title to help the younger guys coming through. Who knows, Maxwell may just play another 2-3 seasons including this season. BUT if the players still want him as captain, he'll keep going.

How do I know this? He told me personally. He just left our house after visiting my mum who is very ill.

I hope you mum gets better soon mate.

 

[The Jet]

I hope you mum gets better soon mate.

Thanks mate, GBM tumor it was, all going 100% so far so can't complain. He came to visit off his own bat. Great bloke.

 

[jmac70]

Thanks mate, GBM tumor it was, all going 100% so far so can't complain. He came to visit off his own bat. Great bloke.

Thanks for sharing this and all the best for your Mum.

 

[Knightmare]

It's a poor team listed and it's really the name players who have been on the list for some time. You'd hope a few younger players come through if this team wants to finish inside the top 8.

I'd have Seedsman in for a declined Maxwell who doesn't fit our gameplan with his lack of 1v1 ability and Scharenberg for Young down back as the better rounded player with a better 1v1 game, better intercept marking ability and a more reliable but still damaging kick.

Blair, Goldsack and Macaffer I'd look to replace with Broomhead, Martin and Fasolo if healthy who are all better talents. Karnezis if he produces is another I'd very strongly consider as an alternative.

B: Alan Toovey Lachlan Keeffe Marley Williams
HB: Matthew Scharenberg Nathan Brown Paul Seedsman
CEN: Dayne Beams Scott Pendlebury Harry O'Brien
HF: Steele Sidebottom Jesse White Taylor Adams
F: Ben Reid Travis Cloke Jamie Elliott
FOLL: Brodie Grundy Luke Ball Dane Swan
BENCH: Josh Thomas Tim Broomhead Kyle Martin Alex Fasolo
*Sub to be rotated.

 

[SpongePie]

I like your team KM. Personally I'm not sold on the Seed yet (I hope I'm wrong about him though) and would have Young ahead of him.
Also Martin and Blair would be my question marks... I dont disagree that Martin is a talent and will probably see more senior time, but I think people tend to forget how good Blair was with his defensive efforts around the ball last year.
I think Macaffer would be in if a tag is needed... horses for courses.

 

[Knightmare]

I like your team KM. Personally I'm not sold on the Seed yet (I hope I'm wrong about him though) and would have Young ahead of him.
Also Martin and Blair would be my question marks... I dont disagree that Martin is a talent and will probably see more senior time, but I think people tend to forget how good Blair was with his defensive efforts around the ball last year.
I think Macaffer would be in if a tag is needed... horses for courses.

With Seedsman I really like him for a number of reasons. He's our best penetrator on our list. He's an absolutely breathtaking runner with the way he takes on the game at pace. He also loves kicking long which only helps with that penetration making him an 80m player.
Additionally unlike any of our other rebounders on our list (perhaps Scharenberg will be the other exception) he's not a one way player. Seedsman defensively is also excellent and has a very underappreciated 1v1 game rarely if ever losing a contest against his opponent. I'd class him as a top 10 player on our list going off what he produced last season and probably our most improved player along with Williams who while not as reliable by foot similarly really established himself in a big way.

Young on the other hand is more a pure wingman. His game is more that of a free runner in a similar way to O'Brien. I expect he'll receive plenty of games and probably become a regular also (while I wouldn't pick him due to lack of reliability by foot) because he can similarly penetrate with his running game excellent and his long kick if working damaging.

Blair I don't have in my best team. I feel J.Thomas went past him last year and Taylor Adams is another I see ahead of him so there is no need for any further small mids. I don't buy Blair as a valid forward option either as he's a non marking, non factor from a goalscoring standpoint. With Blair my primary issue as a midfielder while I like his intent to win the footy and his tackling game, he lacks an outside game and doesn't find the easy ball all our other mids do. He's not such a dominant inside midfielder that you can carry him in a team playing such an outside focused gamestyle.

Martin on the other hand I feel last year while he didn't receive regular opportunities was best 22 then and would still be inside my best team. He's a freak accumulator on the ball and per minute he has the capacity to accumulate Swan type numbers. So even rotating into the midfield for minor minutes he can be a factor. Where I see Martin fitting though is in the front half. He's an excellent 1v1 mark, he's an excellent tackler and a factor from a goalkicking perspective. I see no reason why he can't have a similar impact to an early career Beams before he established himself through the midfield or have a similar impact to Elliott last year if not slightly better. I'm just hoping he has a strong preseason so that he can show everyone that he's AFL standard because he's one of the really hidden away and underutilised players of the competition who probably hasn't received the opportunities his form suggests he should.

Macaffer if playing as a tagger can play and I'd have no issue with him playing as a regular if in that role. He did his job v Dal Santo and Kennedy among others so he along with Karnezis if performing I'd have no issue with having in the team. Perhaps at the expense of Fasolo if he isn't back to being himself but I'm sure the preseason will reveal more.

 

[HeavyPop]

knightmare, where you have Sinclair? I would personally have him on the HBF come Round 1 ahead of Scharenberg.

 

[Knightmare]

knightmare, where you have Sinclair? I would personally have him on the HBF come Round 1 ahead of Scharenberg.

I'd have Sinclair around 30 on my list ranking. He's a role player who can play an effective shutdown role against dangerous smalls and he's someone who will stay switched on defensively for the full 120 minutes so I wouldn't be concerned with him in the team for a few rounds.

My concern with Sinclair is that he's a poor kick and he's not a factor as a rebounder. We've already got enough non-rebounding defenders with Williams while he will run and carry some still a poor kick (though improving to his credit), Toovey, Brown, Keeffe who while a good kick won't find a whole lot of it so a Scharenberg at the end of the day is a better fit with our best squad down back to better balance out the back half and add some rebounding and better footskills so that more offense can be generated from the back half. Scharenberg is a high level intercept player and sound defensively so he's when healthy someone you'd play clearly ahead of Sinclair with his talent among the better 3-4 in the recent draft and likely among the better 10 talents on our list with a couple of years in the system so don't sleep on what he can do.

Round 1 I don't expect to see Scharenberg. I don't know where his body is at but I'd say he'll work his way into the season and probably mid way through the season establish himself in our best team in a similar way to Sidebottom in his first season so Sinclair might well be among if not the better option to start the season instead of Scharenberg but a fully fit Scharenberg would without question be my pick of the two.

 

[rustyg70]

There's not a lot of love for Dwyer on here.
I liked what he bought to our forward line last year.
He could definately tighten up his defensive game though.

 

[jmac70]

It's a poor team listed and it's really the name players who have been on the list for some time. You'd hope a few younger players come through if this team wants to finish inside the top 8.

I'd have Seedsman in for a declined Maxwell who doesn't fit our gameplan with his lack of 1v1 ability and Scharenberg for Young down back as the better rounded player with a better 1v1 game, better intercept marking ability and a more reliable but still damaging kick.

If Sharenberg replaces Young in his first year, would you agree that the decision to sign Young was a massive mistake?

 

[JA27]

There's not a lot of love for Dwyer on here.
I liked what he bought to our forward line last year.
He could definately tighten up his defensive game though.

number one at the club for goal assist, just uses the ball so well and rarely makes a mistake

 

[RGpies]

It's a poor team listed and it's really the name players who have been on the list for some time. You'd hope a few younger players come through if this team wants to finish inside the top 8.

I'd have Seedsman in for a declined Maxwell who doesn't fit our gameplan with his lack of 1v1 ability and Scharenberg for Young down back as the better rounded player with a better 1v1 game, better intercept marking ability and a more reliable but still damaging kick.

Blair, Goldsack and Macaffer I'd look to replace with Broomhead, Martin and Fasolo if healthy who are all better talents. Karnezis if he produces is another I'd very strongly consider as an alternative.

B: Alan Toovey Lachlan Keeffe Marley Williams
HB: Matthew Scharenberg Nathan Brown Paul Seedsman
CEN: Dayne Beams Scott Pendlebury Harry O'Brien
HF: Steele Sidebottom Jesse White Taylor Adams
F: Ben Reid Travis Cloke Jamie Elliott
FOLL: Brodie Grundy Luke Ball Dane Swan
BENCH: Josh Thomas Tim Broomhead Kyle Martin Alex Fasolo
*Sub to be rotated.

I like this line up a lot. Massive fan of josh thomas with his break out year last year. However i notice when you talk of those sub 175cm guys you say they are massive contested ball winners but they will never offer much goods on the outside and it is hard for them to improve as they are almost as good as they are going to get when they start their career. Do you see Josh Thomas as a more rounded player and see more improvement in him? especially since he has only really had one full season.

 

[Knightmare]

I like this line up a lot. Massive fan of josh thomas with his break out year last year. However i notice when you talk of those sub 175cm guys you say they are massive contested ball winners but they will never offer much goods on the outside and it is hard for them to improve as they are almost as good as they are going to get when they start their career. Do you see Josh Thomas as a more rounded player and see more improvement in him? especially since he has only really had one full season.

Josh Thomas while only 176cm (slightly above that sub 175cm bracket) I see as slightly higher upside than Blair and most of the other sub 175cm types and he's someone who can long term establish himself with continued work and luck with his body. As a comparison to Blair based on his production last season he's already better. As a Queenslander as we've seen with so many of their recruits develop later and we saw that with Thomas and his sharp rise in play with every game last season.

On Thomas and an outside game. It's not something I expect him to develop either. Like Blair he'll remain purely an inside type even if his outside ball numbers experince a slight increase. As a short midfielder he's always going to remain limited from an outside standpoint and as a below average kick he's more someone you want inside the contest anyway. It certainly wasn't at all natural to him when first drafted but it's improved. What he does beyond his work on the ball (which is exceptional for a short midfield) have the opportunity to improve is his play forward of centre as that's something typically inside types have the ability to develop with many of the skills transferrable.

I see the most major difference between the two as Josh's strengths are on a higher level - with his inside game superior to that of Blair and scope to be slightly better in most other areas of the game.

 

[TheWing121]

If Sharenberg replaces Young in his first year, would you agree that the decision to sign Young was a massive mistake?

Hard to tell, if injuries were not a factor he would have perhaps made us a better side this year and last. Also if he adds to our culture we are trying to build, I am all for him. I.E Lynch may not get a game this season or some don't like what he did last year, but by all reports he is a strong trainer and great to have around the club

 

[jmac70]

Hard to tell, if injuries were not a factor he would have perhaps made us a better side this year and last. Also if he adds to our culture we are trying to build, I am all for him. I.E Lynch may not get a game this season or some don't like what he did last year, but by all reports he is a strong trainer and great to have around the club

I don't necessarily have a problem with the club taking a punt. It looks like he is training well at the moment so hopefully he can put some games together.

 

[PieNSauce]

Premierships are won by the best defenses so can't agree with that.

+1 (Shoot me now!)

That said, If Keefe can continue his improvement then there's definitely some flexibility around the roles but the problem comes when you look for a designated kicker. Reid is by far our best option although the Seed could substitute if his development continues too. Waaaay too many ifs in there for my liking so at best I see Reid as being a swing man. Use him in bursts up forward when needed but not permanently I wouldn't think.

[EDIT] I know Goldy kicks like a mule but not with the speed from low trajectory or accuracy of Reid. I also think Goldy doesn't have sure enough hands to be permanently in the backline.

 

[Mkcaptain]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-01-15/small-steps-for-magpie

I doubt we'll be seeing Shazza for a while. Not that it matters, its important he gets his feet right.

 

[Men of Steele]

I'd have Sinclair around 30 on my list ranking. He's a role player who can play an effective shutdown role against dangerous smalls and he's someone who will stay switched on defensively for the full 120 minutes so I wouldn't be concerned with him in the team for a few rounds.

My concern with Sinclair is that he's a poor kick and he's not a factor as a rebounder. We've already got enough non-rebounding defenders with Williams while he will run and carry some still a poor kick (though improving to his credit), Toovey, Brown, Keeffe who while a good kick won't find a whole lot of it so a Scharenberg at the end of the day is a better fit with our best squad down back to better balance out the back half and add some rebounding and better footskills so that more offense can be generated from the back half. Scharenberg is a high level intercept player and sound defensively so he's when healthy someone you'd play clearly ahead of Sinclair with his talent among the better 3-4 in the recent draft and likely among the better 10 talents on our list with a couple of years in the system so don't sleep on what he can do.

Round 1 I don't expect to see Scharenberg. I don't know where his body is at but I'd say he'll work his way into the season and probably mid way through the season establish himself in our best team in a similar way to Sidebottom in his first season so Sinclair might well be among if not the better option to start the season instead of Scharenberg but a fully fit Scharenberg would without question be my pick of the two.[/quote

Could you see Macaffer playing the half back role at least until Scharenberg is ready i personnally think we are a better 22 with him in and have seen him play back before and liked it. Manning up shouldn't be a problem?

 

[Men of Steele]

Sorry stuffed the first post try again

Could you see Macaffer playing the half back role at least until Scharenberg is ready i personnally think we are a better 22 with him in and have seen him play back before and liked it. Manning up shouldn't be a problem?

 

[Knightmare]

Hey just curious Knightmare, but whats your complete list ranking

My almanac from last year should give you a better idea. Basically where I rate every player on our list in a best 22 context.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/collingwood-almanac-2013.1013086/



But to update my order with list changes and my view of particular players changing slightly over since play last year (notes where relevant):
1. Scott Pendlebury
2. Travis Cloke
3. Dane Swan
4. Dayne Beams
5. Ben Reid (to be played as a key forward. Opponents will plan better for him next season but he can still be effective and as last season showed hard to defend both Cloke and Reid. More than enough key defenders to cover his loss from the back half with Keeffe and Brown both best 15 players)
6. Lachlan Keeffe (clear no.1 key defender. Expect Rory Thompson level breakout season)
7. Brodie Grundy
8. Luke Ball
9. Harry O'Brien (needs to stay on a wing)
10. Alan Toovey
11. Paul Seedsman (underrated. excellent two way back flanker)
12. Marley Williams
13. Steele Sidebottom
14. Nathan Brown
15. Taylor Adams
16. Brent Macaffer (as tagger best 18)
17. Matthew Scharenberg (health probably won't permit him to play round one but if healthy in our best team off a back flank)
18. Tim Broomhead (to play as a forward flanker rotating into the midfield. all class and forwards will love his f50 delivery)
19. Kyle Martin (would start as a forward but another who can rotate into the midfield and produce. Underrated mark/tackler/accumulator/goalkicker as a forward and when in the midfield he accumulates like Swan. Underrated internally)
20. Jamie Elliott
21. Josh Thomas
22. Jesse White
--
23. Alex Fasolo (hard to leave out but until he proves health a few others just ahead)
24. Patrick Karnezis (could go either way. Forward who can push onto a wing and accumulate like crazy but needs to improve defensively and improve footskills first)
25. Tyson Goldsack (best utilised as a forward. as a defender wouldn't be in my best 30)
26. Sam Dwyer (had a strong first season but no tackling game puts him outside my best team)
27. Ben Kennedy (limited player. Weapon with speed, long kick and ball winning ability but limited ability to accumulate outside the contest which doesn't work with our gameplan)
28. Jarryd Blair (same as Kennedy but without the speed or long kick. Too limited outside and doesn't fit)
29. Ben Sinclair (best utilised down back to shutdown small fwds. footskills not ideal for defender)
30. Tom Langdon (don't sleep on him. Ready to play this year and improving quickly)
31. Marty Clarke (needs to play up the field on a wing)
32. Clinton Young (will play more than my ranking suggests and suits out gameplan as one of our few penetrators on our list with kick and run. Just don't trust his kicking as someone you can both win and lose games off the foot off)
33. Quinten Lynch (can rebound from poor kicking last year but with White he's more likely depth)
34. Jarrod Witts (still developing and a poor tap ruckman but will continue his development and play more games this year)
35. Adam Oxley (good VFL player and improving rapidly but a touch slower than I'd like for a back flanker/wingman)
36. Jack Frost (depth option but very capable and good backup key defender)
37. Caolan Mooney (I'd play him down back and see what happens. Others I like more as forwards)
38. Ben Hudson (quality depth for a couple of games at a time but ideally he doesn't play too many games as capable as he still is)
39. Nick Maxwell (really doesn't fit our gameplan. With a forward press he can be an effective intercept marker but without it is shown up too much 1v1 to be best 22 relevant)
40. Tony Armstrong (depth back flanker who uses it well but not the shutdown player others are)
41. Nathan Freeman (Elite athlete. Sprinting, repeat speed, endurance. He's got it all. Inside game relatively good and he has some tricks with his skills also good. May be an energy sub as Kennedy was last year but needs still to develop consistency and learn to deal with opposition attention)
42. Jackson Ramsay (can accumulate off a back flank/wing but needs to improve footskills before he becomes AFL relevant)
43. Peter Yagmoor (big improver in 2014 and is now a VFL quality backman. Just needs to take another big leap forward to AFL relevance)
44. Jonathon Marsh (Freakish athlete like we haven't seen at his size. Uses it in game like few others can making him different to the track stars. With ball in hand takes on the game incredible. When the ball hits the ground like no others he picks it up so easily. He's even a relatively good accumulator and can take over games. Just one of the worse kicks you'll find. Limited defensive effort and not as strong overhead as you'd like as a forward so lots to iron out)
45. Corey Gault

 

[Knightmare]

Sorry stuffed the first post try again

Could you see Macaffer playing the half back role at least until Scharenberg is ready i personnally think we are a better 22 with him in and have seen him play back before and liked it. Manning up shouldn't be a problem?

I'd be disappointed if we saw Macaffer in a role down back. He's a strong body and sound user of the footy so it's something if absolutely required he could do. I'd just favour Sinclair and the not yet recognised Tom Langdon for the role until Scharenberg gets healthy.

With Macaffer his value is tagging through the midfield as a tagger. He beat some big, big names last year in a role he's not even trained in. He's just not all that impressive anywhere else. As a defender he's not providing any super meaningful rebound with run and carry or an explosive kick and he's not locking guys out of games better than Toovey/Williams/Sinclair/Seedsman. As a forward he's a low volume goal scorer struggling to kick a goal a game so I'd keep him tagging with that skill what makes him AFL relevant and more significantly a difference maker from a win/loss perspective which is what I'd strive to achieve from all members in our best 22.

*Note on second thought from my earlier post I would have Macaffer in our best team as a tagger with Fasolo the unlucky one to miss out.

 

[TheWing121]

13. Steele Sidebottom

Knightmare, I am interested to see you have Sidebottom sitting so low? what are your reasons?

I know Copeland isn't everything but he has finished has 3rd and 4th in the last couple of seasons

 

[ksardog]

Knightmare, I am interested to see you have Sidebottom sitting so low? what are your reasons?

I know Copeland isn't everything but he has finished has 3rd and 4th in the last couple of seasons

way too low on that ranking, clear top 10 on our list. sidebottom is clearly our best 2 way worker and the most underated player on our list.

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare, I am interested to see you have Sidebottom sitting so low? what are your reasons?

I know Copeland isn't everything but he has finished has 3rd and 4th in the last couple of seasons

He's obviously rated highly internally as Maxwell and some others from purely an on field production standpoint I might not feel the same about.

Sidebottom is a high volume accumulator, versatile, a sound user of the footy and has elite endurance but he's not someone who feels like he influences the outcome of games as much as some others who more often feel like they determine the outcome of a game.

He's not a dominant contested ball winner, he's not a dominant mark, he's not an uncontrollable goalkicking threat and he's not a super strong 1v1 player either. He's someone I'd class as a component to the team but not the reason you win as I'd argue many of those I rate ahead of Sidebottom often are.

 

[Manic Magpie]

Seedsman would be ahead of Young hard to knock the rest

Disagree. A fit Young will get a game ahead of Seedsman.