Opinion Commentary & Media VII

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Unyielding Bosom said:
I don't want to see Darling in North colours as he's a squib and the opposite of a clutch player. But I didn't realise not agreeing to terms with Ben Brown means we can never look to recruit another key forward.
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Neither do I but this flog who couldn't handle one bit of negative commentary about North when he was there is now flying off cracks at the club any time they do anything. They deserve it don't get me wrong but he couldn't handle it when he was there.

I guess we can sort out what the club thinks of getting Darling by facebook reactions
 
tazaa said:
My question then is how long does North need to become comparable?
5 years? 10 years? 15? 20?
Click to expand...

From where we are?

2017 - 2028 puts us on par with Melbourne
2017 - 2026 puts us on par with Carlton

this is the timeline of what we are doing. 2017 is the point of aggressive reset, season 1 post our last finals appearance. We can go back to the 90s or point to 2002 as when it all changed but for relevancy stakes the last finals appearance is the point we should count from.

Once we are back into finals we draw a line on the bad times.


tazaa said:
Cutting away senior players like we have has also been done at rival clubs. So why is it when North cut ours we ended up on life support?
I used examples such as Higgins and Tarrant before.
Brady in all his wisdom thought this is the way to go and cooked the rebuild before it even began. That’s the difference between us and our opposition.
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Higgins was cooked and so was Taz. We kept Jack, who was a battleaxe, but by the end would melt infront of goals, and in the back half of the ground. We ground every ounce of everything out of him until not even composure was left. We kept Goldy, who was a champion but not a leaders ring. And we kept Cunners who was a champion and a leader onfield but got cancer and the speed of AFL streaked past him. We also kept Turner who was limited off field but was able to ring everything out of himself.

Some of this is bad management, most of it cruelled by timing and injuries.

The leadership bar had been consistently lowered and not really refreshed over the back end of Brad's tenure. Especially post 2016.

We are basically building from remnants of an exceptionally low base.


tazaa said:
The challenge is to shake off the status we have adopted for ourselves so that we are not perennial cellar dwellers.
Click to expand...

Agree. Wholeheartedly. It also points to the vast majority of our issue being above the shoulders.

tazaa said:
Starts with drafting and list management.
For some reason we don’t target and identify the right senior players to hold us in good stead.
We locked in Simpkin and McDonald and that has been a bust. And that’s why we are where we are. Giving out long term contracts to B-Graders who can’t set a high level of standard for the group to stick to.
Click to expand...

I would go further than this and point to reputational damage done by Cam Joyce and his wave wads of cash approach that we became a joke. I have little doubt that we can identify the sort of talent we need. But no one wants to come, in part because we became a parody and then became a joke of a basket case. If I am a senior player of any sort of standing why would I want my finals playing years tarred with that brush?

Simpkin and McDonald likely did a lot of good things off field to hold us together to a degree. No mass exodus etc. But again the well has been empty in terms of depth especially in terms of depth of leadership so standards of what is and isn't acceptable slide. We gonna drop Luke, but retain Ziebell in the back line who was equally kicking helicopters and OOF in key points?

So in response we keep cutting waiting for new leadership to go and hopefully outgrow the limitations of the leaders before them.

tazaa said:
When you look at our issues, it seems to get debated endlessly whether the captains were the right choice to take on responsibilities of nurturing this group. They weren’t and the people in charge of putting them there must go. But they won’t because of the fear of destabilising the joint again.
Click to expand...

I could go into a huge post about this but in terms of leadership the last solid core of good leaders this club had came out of the under 19s side in the late 80s early 90s through the handing down of this leadership there was not ever any real prioritisation on composure. When push comes to shove our leaders have melted, and often.

tazaa said:
And so we pray we get our draft picks right in November and just hope we don’t stack up on C-Graders again in October who will do nothing to advance our cause. As I said hope is all we have but it’s grim.
Click to expand...

There is a touch more than hope. We have stemmed the bleeding in terms of off field instability.

We have amassed more high end early draft talent than we have ever had on the list and while we are having to back over things we had taken for granted for forever like our hard fought back to the wall culture, we are going through the hard fought stuff again. Now with a group of kids led by a kid the like of which we have basically never seen but we are at year 2 of this.

We are incredibly young across the board. If you take our current list, and forecast into 2027 you can put 3 years more development into every player and with the exception of McDonald and Corr, you can write out a fairly balanced side that would all be under 30.

On a long enough timeline the wheel will turn and we will consistently win games of football and play finals and win them too and for those of us here and now and eating the shit that we have had to to get through, those days will never be taken for granted.

Following the AFL has been an onslaught for half a decade. The best antidote to our collective inability to change things with them is to watch the AFLW. It'll remind you of what it is like to watch your footy team win.
 
Only Forwards said:
From where we are?

2017 - 2028 puts us on par with Melbourne
2017 - 2026 puts us on par with Carlton

this is the timeline of what we are doing. 2017 is the point of aggressive reset, season 1 post our last finals appearance. We can go back to the 90s or point to 2002 as when it all changed but for relevancy stakes the last finals appearance is the point we should count from.

Once we are back into finals we draw a line on the bad times.




Higgins was cooked and so was Taz. We kept Jack, who was a battleaxe, but by the end would melt infront of goals, and in the back half of the ground. We ground every ounce of everything out of him until not even composure was left. We kept Goldy, who was a champion but not a leaders ring. And we kept Cunners who was a champion and a leader onfield but got cancer and the speed of AFL streaked past him. We also kept Turner who was limited off field but was able to ring everything out of himself.

Some of this is bad management, most of it cruelled by timing and injuries.

The leadership bar had been consistently lowered and not really refreshed over the back end of Brad's tenure. Especially post 2016.

We are basically building from remnants of an exceptionally low base.




Agree. Wholeheartedly. It also points to the vast majority of our issue being above the shoulders.



I would go further than this and point to reputational damage done by Cam Joyce and his wave wads of cash approach that we became a joke. I have little doubt that we can identify the sort of talent we need. But no one wants to come, in part because we became a parody and then became a joke of a basket case. If I am a senior player of any sort of standing why would I want my finals playing years tarred with that brush?

Simpkin and McDonald likely did a lot of good things off field to hold us together to a degree. No mass exodus etc. But again the well has been empty in terms of depth especially in terms of depth of leadership so standards of what is and isn't acceptable slide. We gonna drop Luke, but retain Ziebell in the back line who was equally kicking helicopters and OOF in key points?

So in response we keep cutting waiting for new leadership to go and hopefully outgrow the limitations of the leaders before them.



I could go into a huge post about this but in terms of leadership the last solid core of good leaders this club had came out of the under 19s side in the late 80s early 90s through the handing down of this leadership there was not ever any real prioritisation on composure. When push comes to shove our leaders have melted, and often.



There is a touch more than hope. We have stemmed the bleeding in terms of off field instability.

We have amassed more high end early draft talent than we have ever had on the list and while we are having to back over things we had taken for granted for forever like our hard fought back to the wall culture, we are going through the hard fought stuff again. Now with a group of kids led by a kid the like of which we have basically never seen but we are at year 2 of this.

We are incredibly young across the board. If you take our current list, and forecast into 2027 you can put 3 years more development into every player and with the exception of McDonald and Corr, you can write out a fairly balanced side that would all be under 30.

On a long enough timeline the wheel will turn and we will consistently win games of football and play finals and win them too and for those of us here and now and eating the shit that we have had to to get through, those days will never be taken for granted.

Following the AFL has been an onslaught for half a decade. The best antidote to our collective inability to change things with them is to watch the AFLW. It'll remind you of what it is like to watch your footy team win.
Click to expand...
I think you've got to give the bloke more than 12 months to attempt to sort the mess that was created before he got there. Particularly when you lose 12 months and two gun players who would have been part of any resurgence.

We've had 12 months of relative clear air. No excuses now for the team not to get its shit together.

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Heath should stick to doing what he does best - bullying posters who innocently report what they observed at an OPEN training session.
 
see see said:
Heath should stick to doing what he does best - bullying posters who innocently report what they observed at an OPEN training session.
Click to expand...
God that was funny. Like posting it on Bigfooty was somehow going to expose the whole clubs game plan when an oppo scout could drive down, park on Arden Street and watch the entire thing if they wanted to, but were more likely to get their intel from the deranged ramblings of people so deeply sick that they would take time out of their own personal lives to go watch pre-season training
 
Only Forwards said:
From where we are?

2017 - 2028 puts us on par with Melbourne
2017 - 2026 puts us on par with Carlton

this is the timeline of what we are doing. 2017 is the point of aggressive reset, season 1 post our last finals appearance. We can go back to the 90s or point to 2002 as when it all changed but for relevancy stakes the last finals appearance is the point we should count from.

Once we are back into finals we draw a line on the bad times.




Higgins was cooked and so was Taz. We kept Jack, who was a battleaxe, but by the end would melt infront of goals, and in the back half of the ground. We ground every ounce of everything out of him until not even composure was left. We kept Goldy, who was a champion but not a leaders ring. And we kept Cunners who was a champion and a leader onfield but got cancer and the speed of AFL streaked past him. We also kept Turner who was limited off field but was able to ring everything out of himself.

Some of this is bad management, most of it cruelled by timing and injuries.

The leadership bar had been consistently lowered and not really refreshed over the back end of Brad's tenure. Especially post 2016.

We are basically building from remnants of an exceptionally low base.




Agree. Wholeheartedly. It also points to the vast majority of our issue being above the shoulders.



I would go further than this and point to reputational damage done by Cam Joyce and his wave wads of cash approach that we became a joke. I have little doubt that we can identify the sort of talent we need. But no one wants to come, in part because we became a parody and then became a joke of a basket case. If I am a senior player of any sort of standing why would I want my finals playing years tarred with that brush?

Simpkin and McDonald likely did a lot of good things off field to hold us together to a degree. No mass exodus etc. But again the well has been empty in terms of depth especially in terms of depth of leadership so standards of what is and isn't acceptable slide. We gonna drop Luke, but retain Ziebell in the back line who was equally kicking helicopters and OOF in key points?

So in response we keep cutting waiting for new leadership to go and hopefully outgrow the limitations of the leaders before them.



I could go into a huge post about this but in terms of leadership the last solid core of good leaders this club had came out of the under 19s side in the late 80s early 90s through the handing down of this leadership there was not ever any real prioritisation on composure. When push comes to shove our leaders have melted, and often.



There is a touch more than hope. We have stemmed the bleeding in terms of off field instability.

We have amassed more high end early draft talent than we have ever had on the list and while we are having to back over things we had taken for granted for forever like our hard fought back to the wall culture, we are going through the hard fought stuff again. Now with a group of kids led by a kid the like of which we have basically never seen but we are at year 2 of this.

We are incredibly young across the board. If you take our current list, and forecast into 2027 you can put 3 years more development into every player and with the exception of McDonald and Corr, you can write out a fairly balanced side that would all be under 30.

On a long enough timeline the wheel will turn and we will consistently win games of football and play finals and win them too and for those of us here and now and eating the shit that we have had to to get through, those days will never be taken for granted.

Following the AFL has been an onslaught for half a decade. The best antidote to our collective inability to change things with them is to watch the AFLW. It'll remind you of what it is like to watch your footy team win.
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We’ll leap em. Bring back Tarryn Thomas, recruit a couple of handy senior leadership players and we are on like ****ing DONKEY KONG!!
 
Flawed Genius said:
God that was funny. Like posting it on Bigfooty was somehow going to expose the whole clubs game plan when an oppo scout could drive down, park on Arden Street and watch the entire thing if they wanted to, but were more likely to get their intel from the deranged ramblings of people so deeply sick that they would take time out of their own personal lives to go watch pre-season training
Click to expand...
Parking on arden st would be the most challenging aspect of your premis
.
 
I’ll leave this here….but l think it’s pretty universally accepted not only is he a walking contradiction,
But a hack wannabe USA schock jock….



But what makes me cranky, with all the pot shots…including the most recent one above, and granted some heat has been deserved l wanted to scream. ….🤬!!!
I get some will say it’s just Kane ignore..nup fudge it. lm a member and for what fruitcake in a flaming tin are we paying this muppet to be a guest speaker at our preliminary finals lunch on the 20th of this month… when he keeps pulling shite like that…….yeah that’s okay come talk at our event Kane..all’s well…..we don’t mind this…thats all kinds of messed up grr 😖

www.nmfchospitality.com.au

Prelim Final Lunch

Join some of the biggest names in the game and club favourites to reflect on the season that was and breakdown the upcoming Preliminary Finals.
www.nmfchospitality.com.au www.nmfchospitality.com.au

Maybe lm just tired…maybe l read the Harry post the wrong way… its late…dunno ….it just doesn’t sit right with me… night. 😤
 
Kane says dumb shit on purpose because people rage about it, link articles, make comments... any attention is good attention when it comes to marketing. Jabba the Hutt has just copied a form of "journalism" that is common in other parts of the world.

Just roll your eyes and move on.
 

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Roostorm said:
I’ll leave this here….but l think it’s pretty universally accepted not only is he a walking contradiction,
But a hack wannabe USA schock jock….



But what makes me cranky, with all the pot shots…including the most recent one above, and granted some heat has been deserved l wanted to scream. ….🤬!!!
I get some will say it’s just Kane ignore..nup fudge it. lm a member and for what fruitcake in a flaming tin are we paying this muppet to be a guest speaker at our preliminary finals lunch on the 20th of this month… when he keeps pulling shite like that…….yeah that’s okay come talk at our event Kane..all’s well…..we don’t mind this…thats all kinds of messed up grr 😖

www.nmfchospitality.com.au

Prelim Final Lunch

Join some of the biggest names in the game and club favourites to reflect on the season that was and breakdown the upcoming Preliminary Finals.
www.nmfchospitality.com.au www.nmfchospitality.com.au

Maybe lm just tired…maybe l read the Harry post the wrong way… its late…dunno ….it just doesn’t sit right with me… night. 😤
Click to expand...


Kane is extremely consistent about his thoughts on players signing on long term.
 
hotchilli said:
Kane is extremely consistent about his thoughts on players signing on long term.
Click to expand...
Unless the player is one he likes/from Port

Was absolutely no reason to single out Harry in that comment. Has said a few things in the last couple weeks that are unneeded shots at him.
 
DarkPhoenix said:
Unless the player is one he likes/from Port

Was absolutely no reason to single out Harry in that comment. Has said a few things in the last couple weeks that are unneeded shots at him.
Click to expand...

Eh I think you are getting on your Kane hate.

I read it more as a comment on he thinks Harry is leaving money on the table by signing up long term.
 
hotchilli said:
Eh I think you are getting on your Kane hate.

I read it more as a comment on he thinks Harry is leaving money on the table by signing up long term.
Click to expand...
Like jhf was signing his? Which cornes was fine with
 
tazaa said:
My question then is how long does North need to become comparable?
5 years? 10 years? 15? 20?

This is the issue. What the club is apparently striving to achieve and telling us it’s trying to do - it has not done in 30 years. And that’s using the 90s as an example.

In the 18-team, free agency era?
We have nothing to show for it.

Cutting away senior players like we have has also been done at rival clubs. So why is it when North cut ours we ended up on life support?
I used examples such as Higgins and Tarrant before.
Brady in all his wisdom thought this is the way to go and cooked the rebuild before it even began. That’s the difference between us and our opposition.

The challenge is to shake off the status we have adopted for ourselves so that we are not perennial cellar dwellers.

Starts with drafting and list management.
For some reason we don’t target and identify the right senior players to hold us in good stead.
We locked in Simpkin and McDonald and that has been a bust. And that’s why we are where we are. Giving out long term contracts to B-Graders who can’t set a high level of standard for the group to stick to.

When you look at our issues, it seems to get debated endlessly whether the captains were the right choice to take on responsibilities of nurturing this group. They weren’t and the people in charge of putting them there must go. But they won’t because of the fear of destabilising the joint again.


And so we pray we get our draft picks right in November and just hope we don’t stack up on C-Graders again in October who will do nothing to advance our cause. As I said hope is all we have but it’s grim.
Click to expand...
We are not comparable. We need to understand that. Collinwood, geelong, sydney are destination clubs. That can top up with quality players who will sacrifice $$ to be a part pf a winning culture (or get extras unofficially). We pay overs for middling talent, that would cause some resentment amongst the player list.

ive never been comfortable when the roos try to trade for success. You need to do it a bit, but on the whole we would go better to build in the draft. We have a good history of retaining our drafts.

Everyone is getting impatient, thinking we "deserve" a flag, but it might take many more years yet. Sheez is the leader to set the example and do it. Hes the one in a 1000 talent that you could build a club around
 
travelli said:
We are not comparable. We need to understand that. Collinwood, geelong, sydney are destination clubs. That can top up with quality players who will sacrifice $$ to be a part pf a winning culture (or get extras unofficially). We pay overs for middling talent, that would cause some resentment amongst the player list.
Click to expand...
It is not just about winning culture. What they sacrifice with one income stream they in all likelihood make up for with others that are not counted under a cap. Under qualified over employed relatives etc. Managers have been wise to this for ages and that was before we had Cam Joyce out there waving wads of cash around. That perception he created did significant amounts of damage to what we are working our way out of now. It made us a joke.


travelli said:
ive never been comfortable when the roos try to trade for success. You need to do it a bit, but on the whole we would go better to build in the draft. We have a good history of retaining our drafts.
Click to expand...
The only way that we can is to be shrewd. Which in reality means one of two things. You either take that bet on a fringe kid who may make it or you take the bet on a player who has injury clouds.

We have had a few successes on the injury clouds players (W80, Higgo) not so many on the fringe kid side. We have taken a few ok stop gap players.


travelli said:
Everyone is getting impatient, thinking we "deserve" a flag, but it might take many more years yet. Sheez is the leader to set the example and do it. Hes the one in a 1000 talent that you could build a club around
Click to expand...

I am completely all in on Sheez.

He is 19 and he is the face of the club. The first one to do post season media of any description. He speaks like a veteran player. He is respectful about those that have come before him regardless of the dumpster fire that has been created that we are trying to undo.

I am interested to understand some of how his contract came about. I want to believe that he sees himself as the way forward for the club. If he went into his contract discussions with that point of view he is playing 4d chess. By Sheez signing on for as long as he has it gives others a reason to sign on.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is a pretty short road to him being in recruitment conversations with players we target from other clubs.

IMHO if we get things right with Harry we can change club for a generation.
 
Most of the time we've kept the poaching wolves at bay even when bigger more fluid capped sides come knocking. That's because players in this situation know the club and if that's to their liking, that's 99% of the battle won. Except for very rare occasion we get too smart ie Levi Greenwood.

What we haven't been able to do is lure an A Grader over with a chequebook. These players don't know us, their impression of us is likely as tarnished as any member of the public and in a head to head $ battle we all know other clubs have many ways to beat our offers- without "officially" beating our offers.

Which supports what traveli said. Chasing opposition talent with a wad of cash is a mugs game for our sort of club. We need to grow from within and then appeal as a football destination when we have some demonstrated signs of pending success.

Outcomes aside, modern era NMFC wouldn't go near landing a Shannon Grant or Leigh Colbert.
 
King Corey said:
Most of the time we've kept the poaching wolves at bay even when bigger more fluid capped sides come knocking. That's because players in this situation know the club and if that's to their liking, that's 99% of the battle won. Except for very rare occasion we get too smart ie Levi Greenwood.

What we haven't been able to do is lure an A Grader over with a chequebook. These players don't know us, their impression of us is likely as tarnished as any member of the public and in a head to head $ battle we all know other clubs have many ways to beat our offers- without "officially" beating our offers.

Which supports what traveli said. Chasing opposition talent with a wad of cash is a mugs game for our sort of club. We need to grow from within and then appeal as a football destination when we have some demonstrated signs of pending success.

Outcomes aside, modern era NMFC wouldn't go near landing a Shannon Grant or Leigh Colbert.
Click to expand...
We landed those two as reigning premiers. I think in the same position we’d have strong chances to get players we wanted.

Everything is different now, though, and players have much more power to choose - traded targets don’t have to move and draftees don’t have to stay - so the only way get anywhere at all is demonstrating we are going places. With all the levers against us, but it’s the only way.
 
Hearts to hearts said:
We landed those two as reigning premiers. I think in the same position we’d have strong chances to get players we wanted.

Everything is different now, though, and players have much more power to choose - traded targets don’t have to move and draftees don’t have to stay - so the only way get anywhere at all is demonstrating we are going places. With all the levers against us, but it’s the only way.
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That's my point H2H.

We were less solvent in the 90s but our success coaxed in some highly rated players.

We're almost never landing a highly sought after talent in an off-field bidding war. It's only going to happen with the lure of a successful environment.

Hawthorn are a good model for this. They don't particularly present as cap dodgers. They are annoyingly consistent with rebuilding every single decade and drawing in talent with their building momentum.
 
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