Traded Confirmed Trade: Tom Lee (GWS pre-selection), #24, #43 to St Kilda for #12

[aussierulesrules]

The Bulldogs might have made a play for him, too. They might have been one of the clubs bidding on him and making it necessary for us to give up a pick as high as we did for him. It wouldn't surprise me.

This was an informative post on him from our board, by someone who follows Hawthorn, but it would seem knows of him well, which probably explains why he hasn't set the world on fire prior to this year:

He's a very hard worker on the field, however off-field he was terribly lazy, only this year he pulled his finger out when his Coach beat him in a 3km time trial by about 30 seconds and blasted him for it. Kind of a Last one to turn up one of the first to leave, Even after being booted out of the crows for a laconic style to training he just floated along thinking he had enough talent to make it so it would happen

Is a very talented Tall, not the strongest player however reads the play very well and judges the ball perfectly, a Pure forward, Very Wiry and will take about 1-2 seasons to get into the swing of it, however he's a good-un, Especially if he's ready to put the work in

You'd think working with Riewoldt will do him the world of good, as you will struggle to find anyone more professional than Nick. If his work-ethic and so on rubs off on Tom, then he could have a genuinely terrific career, now that the penny has dropped about how much he needs to work to be successful.

 

[Stifler's mom]

Considering the high price the Saints paid along with the fact he was mature age, you would have to say that Lee has been a poor choice.
Hardly set the world on fire in the VFL either.

 

[Yoda_]

Considering the high price the Saints paid along with the fact he was mature age, you would have to say that Lee has been a poor choice.
Hardly set the world on fire in the VFL either.

Probably right but the kid is 22, playing in a poor team and has had his fair share of injury concerns this past few months.

 

[Chris Grant]

The Bulldogs might have made a play for him, too. They might have been one of the clubs bidding on him and making it necessary for us to give up a pick as high as we did for him. It wouldn't surprise me.

We didn't rate him. But I'm pretty sure there was a couple other clubs that we're interested.

 

[The Finger]

Considering the high price the Saints paid along with the fact he was mature age, you would have to say that Lee has been a poor choice.
Hardly set the world on fire in the VFL either.

Had achillies problems and a wrist injury but clearly this cannot be an excuse he should have played every game and dominated.

 

[The Finger]

We didn't rate him. But I'm pretty sure there was a couple other clubs that we're interested.

How do you know the WB didnt rate him? Its not as if they have any other forward options.

 

[Chris Grant]

How do you know the WB didnt rate him? Its not as if they have any other forward options.

I have my sources.

Oh gosh, here we go. We didn't rate Lee, like we don't rate Kosi. You don't take a forward because you're desperate.

 

[The Finger]

I have my sources.

Oh gosh, here we go. We didn't rate Lee, like we don't rate Kosi. You don't take a forward because you're desperate.

Lee was rated between 10-20 in the draft by most experts.

Kosi would have played every game this year for the WB.

 

[Chris Grant]

Lee was rated between 10-20 in the draft by most experts.

Kosi would have played every game this year for the WB.

Please don't start with Kosi again...

Well I know the Bulldogs didn't rate him that highly. And if he was rated so highly how come he only got a state screening invite? Only 3 or 4 clubs showed an interest rather then 10 or so at the draft combine. Who are these experts you're referring to?

 

[Super Hans]

Lee was rated between 10-20 in the draft by most experts.

Kosi would have played every game this year for the WB.

Shut the **** up about Kosi. ****.

 

[The Finger]

Please don't start with Kosi again...

Well I know the Bulldogs didn't rate him that highly. And if he was rated so highly how come he only got a state screening invite? Only 3 or 4 clubs showed an interest rather then 10 or so at the draft combine. Who are these experts you're referring to?

Kevin Shehan had him at 12 in his draft to Carlton. Dogs are desperate for a key forward lets not dispute that Jones is struggling big time without any help.

 

[fanaticcj]

Good player who seems to be lacking the opportunity. Saw him play a lot last year for Claremont and definately above state league level. If not forward stick him back, has a long penetrating kick.

 

[Chris Grant]

Kevin Shehan had him at 12 in his draft to Carlton. Dogs are desperate for a key forward lets not dispute that Jones is struggling big time without any help.

The fact is we didn't rate Lee, so we didn't take him. We wanted Dawes, but he wanted to go to Melbourne. We wanted Gumby, but he wanted to stay at Essendon. You can't say we didn't try to recruit one. Perhaps we'll have more luck this year.

 

[Silvagnis]

Kevin Shehan had him at 12 in his draft to Carlton.

Then it's a huge mystery that Carlton didn't try to trade pick 11 for Lee plus picks 24 and 43. We had a higher pick than the Saints. No way known that we rated Lee higher than Menzel.

 

[Stifler's mom]

Kevin Shehan had him at 12 in his draft to Carlton. Dogs are desperate for a key forward lets not dispute that Jones is struggling big time without any help.

If that was true, clearly shifter was trolling for lulz.

Only the Saints realised that he was taking the piss.

 

[aussierulesrules]

And if he was rated so highly how come he only got a state screening invite? Only 3 or 4 clubs showed an interest rather then 10 or so at the draft combine.

According to this article, he was at the combine:

"The clubs that have interviewed Lee at this week's draft combine - Fremantle, Brisbane Lions, Geelong, Richmond, Melbourne and St Kilda - have all wanted to know the same things, and he hopes he has convinced them how serious he is.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/after-staggering-lee-finds-his-feet-20121004-272as.html#ixzz2Wq7yqEwn

I don't believe he did any testing though, because he tore his quad early in the WAFL GF, just a week or two earlier.

 

[The Finger]

If that was true, clearly shifter was trolling for lulz.

Only the Saints realised that he was taking the piss.

Trade value is driven by how many clubs are interested in a player. There was a host of clubs that wanted Lee. Like Hickey that Collingwood where desperate to get it means it becomes a auction. Hickey was always a valued at mid to late first round how StKilda got pick 25 back as well is amazing.

 

[aussierulesrules]

If we had gotten him purely to play this year I would agree that he has been a poor choice, but we also got him to play for 8+ years, so there's plenty of time for him to give us good value for that trade.

Unfortunately he has, I believe, had some pretty significant issues with his leg/s so far this season, which don't appear to be getting any better. He was given a couple of games off to see if he could get them/it right, about 6 weeks ago (the major problem at that stage was his achilles, which is what he was listed as missing with), but it may not have worked, as he only lasted 3 quarters on the weekend and by 3/4 time he had a big ice pack on the achilles area and someone on our board, who was at the game, said that they overheard him say to one of the others on the team that he was "f*%#ed", presumably referring to his leg. (I note that he is not listed to play for Sandringham at either level this weekend.) So it may just be that this year is a bit of a write-off for him, if that is still the problem I was told it is and it doesn't improve soon.

He also went into the season off a very interrupted lead-up, having injured his wrist during the NAB Cup series and only played the equivalent of one game of footy in the 7 weeks leading into R1 of the VFL season (round 2 of the AFL season). The fact that we picked him to play for us in the seniors (in his first ever AFL game) the very next week (despite being very lacking in match practise and also not being in good form yet) says how much we rate him though and he played again two weeks later (although without a game in between), before going back to the VFL, where I think he only played one or two more games, before missing through the achilles injury.

If his leg/s are as bad as I've heard they are and as bad as someone heard him suggest they were on the weekend, then the problem is likely to take away a couple of his biggest strengths, in his speed and athleticism and leave him only with pushing and shoving (which is about all I saw him do on the weekend- a far cry from the guy who looked really mobile and found space easily the last time I saw him live, in the NAB Cup) and at this stage pushing and shoving are just not his game, as he is still lacking in the power and strength department.

So I still have high hopes that he will be good in the Aaron Black/Jack Gunston type role in the long term, but I think we can possibly put a line through this year if he doesn't get close to full fitness very soon.

I think everyone also needs to not get too caught up in the fact that he is 22yo. If anyone is a "late developer", he is, having been raw (not to mention thin) as all hell, when he was originally drafted by Adelaide and he also still had a fair bit of growing to do (both physically- he was 191cm back then, but was described as 195cm after the combine last year (where they measure them to the mm) and also emotionally- he was way out of his depth when first drafted and apparently had no idea how much work was involved to make it), so physically he is probably more like many others are at 20 or so, having only really knuckled down in the last couple of years and only fairly recently stopped growing. The fact that he kicked 68 goals (including 6 in Claremont's first final and 6 against Weribbee in the Foxtel Cup GF) in 17 games at senior WAFL and Foxtel Cup level, despite probably having the body of a 19yo, is a very good sign though, I would have thought.

As for the trade in general, Nathan Wright (who we got with the pick at 24 that we got with Lee for pick 12 (we also got pick 43, which effectively became the pick we used to get Josh Saunders) has instantly become an automatic selection in our team despite being only 19yo, so even if we only got Wright for pick 12 I think we would be pretty happy with that in the long run, but the fact is we also got Lee and Saunders as well (for pick 12), so I'm still very comfortable with the trade in general. There are no guarantees, though, like with any trade, so I look forward to seeing how it turns out over the next few years.

 

[saintsrfreak]

Been injured most of this year.

 

[Chris Grant]

According to this article, he was at the combine:

"The clubs that have interviewed Lee at this week's draft combine - Fremantle, Brisbane Lions, Geelong, Richmond, Melbourne and St Kilda - have all wanted to know the same things, and he hopes he has convinced them how serious he is.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/after-staggering-lee-finds-his-feet-20121004-272as.html#ixzz2Wq7yqEwn

I don't believe he did any testing though, because he tore his quad early in the WAFL GF.

Oh .

So obviously he was rated by others, the dogs weren't so keen.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Lee is someone who seems to really divide opinions. I think he was probably someone who some (like Shifter, us, Matt Rendell) really rated highly, while others didn't rate him anywhere near as much. Matt Rendell, for instance, even reportedly rated him as being in the top 20 prospects in the 2008 draft (see below), when he originally drafted him to Adelaide and apparently he rated him even more highly last year (although that's not surprising, given that he had grown as much as 4cm in the meantime (from a meh 191cm in 2008, to a very handy 195cm or so) and had just kicked 68 goals in 17 games for Claremont, despite still having a lot more development ahead of him in regards to his strength and endurance and so on).

"While taken at pick 60, Lee - an impressive character - is rated highly by the Crows. They had him listed in their top 20 prospects heading into the draft, having fallen in love with his athleticism.

Lee ran a sizzling 2.93sec for the 20m sprint at the WA state screening session, as well as impressing in the vertical jump.

"He's very versatile, he's got a fantastic vertical leap, really good pace, good skills and he's very competitive," Adelaide recruiting manager Matthew Rendell said. "Given time, we think he'll develop into a really good utility for us."

Read more: http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-premiership/no-buddy-but-tom-played-with-franklin/story-e6frf34u-1111118199258#ixzz2WqG8DWJN

"Former Adelaide recruiter Matt Rendell recently pointed to Tom Lee as a prime example of the mistakes made by AFL clubs who drafted players too young and then spat them out prematurely.
Lee was just 18 when he was drafted from Claremont by the Crows in 2008 but only spent one year at Adelaide before being cut."
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/-/afl/13716403/tiger-wants-another-crack-at-afl/

I've really liked some of the things I've seen from him this year, including when I saw him play live in the NAB Cup, when he was getting separation on the lead really well and taking marks consistently (including a game high 4 inside the F50, despite only playing about 60mins of the game) and he looks ideally suited to that 3rd tall role up forward, a la Aaron Black, Jack Gunston, etc. but at the moment he is struggling big-time and may need an extended spell on the sidelines to get his body right.

I would absolutely love to see our forward line in a few years time though if we have Boyd (somehow), Spencer White and Lee in it, not to mention potentially any of Siposs, Saad, Markworth, Milera. That would be a great combo I reckon, with Boyd being the big strong unit we have closest to goal and with White and Lee running around and jumping on a few heads and so on.

 

[The Finger]

Where is Rendall working now?

 

[aussierulesrules]

Collingwood snapped him up just a week or two prior to the draft last year.

So now they have Rendell and Hine, as if they don't have enough things going for them already!

Adelaide would be filthy with that I reckon. They rave about Rendell's recruiting on the Adelaide board on here.

 

[manny100]

If we had gotten him purely to play this year I would agree that he has been a poor choice, but we also got him to play for 8+ years, so there's plenty of time for him to give us good value for that trade.

Unfortunately he has, I believe, had some pretty significant issues with his leg/s so far this season, which don't appear to be getting any better. He was given a couple of games off to see if he could get them/it right, about 6 weeks ago (the major problem at that stage was his achilles, which is what he was listed as missing with), but it may not have worked, as he only lasted 3 quarters on the weekend and by 3/4 time he had a big ice pack on the achilles area and someone on our board, who was at the game, said that they overheard him say to one of the others on the team that he was "f*%#ed", presumably referring to his leg. (I note that he is not listed to play for Sandringham at either level this weekend.) So it may just be that this year is a bit of a write-off for him, if that is still the problem I was told it is and it doesn't improve soon.

He also went into the season off a very interrupted lead-up, having injured his wrist during the NAB Cup series and only played the equivalent of one game of footy in the 7 weeks leading into R1 of the VFL season (round 2 of the AFL season). The fact that we picked him to play for us in the seniors (in his first ever AFL game) the very next week (despite being very lacking in match practise and also not being in good form yet) says how much we rate him though and he played again two weeks later (although without a game in between), before going back to the VFL, where I think he only played one or two more games, before missing through the achilles injury.

If his leg/s are as bad as I've heard they are and as bad as someone heard him suggest they were on the weekend, then the problem is likely to take away a couple of his biggest strengths, in his speed and athleticism and leave him only with pushing and shoving (which is about all I saw him do on the weekend- a far cry from the guy who looked really mobile and found space easily the last time I saw him live, in the NAB Cup) and at this stage pushing and shoving are just not his game, as he is still lacking in the power and strength department.

So I still have high hopes that he will be good in the Aaron Black/Jack Gunston type role in the long term, but I think we can possibly put a line through this year if he doesn't get close to full fitness very soon.

I think everyone also needs to not get too caught up in the fact that he is 22yo. If anyone is a "late developer", he is, having been raw (not to mention thin) as all hell, when he was originally drafted by Adelaide and he also still had a fair bit of growing to do (both physically- he was 191cm back then, but was described as 195cm after the combine last year (where they measure them to the mm) and also emotionally- he was way out of his depth when first drafted and apparently had no idea how much work was involved to make it), so physically he is probably more like many others are at 20 or so, having only really knuckled down in the last couple of years and only fairly recently stopped growing. The fact that he kicked 68 goals (including 6 in Claremont's first final and 6 against Weribbee in the Foxtel Cup GF) in 17 games at senior WAFL and Foxtel Cup level, despite probably having the body of a 19yo, is a very good sign though, I would have thought.

As for the trade in general, Nathan Wright (who we got with the pick at 24 that we got with Lee for pick 12 (we also got pick 43, which effectively became the pick we used to get Josh Saunders) has instantly become an automatic selection in our team despite being only 19yo, so even if we only got Wright for pick 12 I think we would be pretty happy with that in the long run, but the fact is we also got Lee and Saunders as well (for pick 12), so I'm still very comfortable with the trade in general. There are no guarantees, though, like with any trade, so I look forward to seeing how it turns out over the next few years.

Yes, Scott Watters early in the season explained the Lee GWS deal on 'On the Couch'. It certainly did include the picks you mention and the players they got for those picks look good at this stage. Watters also said he expected Lee to take up to a further 18 months to develop. Watters as all coaches would be is very confident Lee will be a good player.

 

[I am Jack]

Yes, Scott Watters early in the season explained the Lee GWS deal on 'On the Couch'. It certainly did include the picks you mention and the players they got for those picks look good at this stage. Watters also said he expected Lee to take up to a further 18 months to develop. Watters as all coaches would be is very confident Lee will be a good player.

But like all players, Lee will be judged by results.
At present Lee looks nothing like a pick 12, 24 or even a 43.
What Watters would be aware of though, is that it is up to Tom Lee to become a quality player and ultimately being picked high or low means very little if the performances aren't there, just ask Jack Watts.

Don't know about this 18 months further development though, the kid is 22, spent a fair amount of time in the system and been exposed to senior football for long enough to have more of an impact than he has had thus far. But, I do understand why Watters would roll out that development line as it's in his own best interests to have people think Lee needs a further 18 months.