List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

[Keys]

The Contracts Thread

Updated (20/3/24) the status of all contracts for people’s reference : Overall List - 44 Players : Main List(37), Rookie List(5), Cat B(2) Contracted until the end of 2027 (2) : Tom Barrass (8/10/95) - Signed a 5 year extension (2023,2024,2025,2026,2027) on an existing contract set to...

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[AsterixTheGaul]

Once again, I’m having to explain things to you multiple time, because you seem to struggle to understand simple concepts.

There’s little to no point retrofitting current A grade KPD’s and asking if I would spend a top 10 pick on them. The answer should be obvious.

What you seem to not understand is across the competition almost all clubs KPD’s were not top 10 picks.

The exception is Weitering and Moore who was drafted based on his work as a forward.

On that basis it makes little sense to draft a KPD with a top pick, particularly in an environment where top picks are scarce.

Everyone else in this thread appears to be able to understand and grasp this except you.

This is more of a you than a me problem.

I love it when you try to toss crap over the fence.

Let us go back to where this discussion started. It was raised as a scenario "Do we trade back a possible pick 3 to 5 to get 2 picks - a pick around 10 PLUS a pick to satisfy Doggies with Buss". In a normal room full of people with insights, I expected a decent dialogue. Oh no. Mr Dom Sheed Pocket comes up with grandiose statement about what everyone and nobody as ever done. Throwing out a heap of bravado statements and then patting himself of the back for posting it - which was actually such utter rubbish that I felt I should tell the king he is wearing no clothes. Alas, the comment of the truth was disliked and I find myself wondering whether I should bother educating the ill informed. Wife is away at the moment so I actually have the time and am enjoying it.


There was a sudden feeling of remorse that came over me. Am I responding to one of the ex Norf recruiters!! It all started to make sense as to why you would blurt out such statements of embarrassment. No way would you go for a KPD - we have finished low and we can get the best KPDers with late picks and even just grab them off the rookie list.


My bad, I digressed. Back to the story. I believe it was about then you went out and stated something like "clubs don't invest an early pick for a KPD".

I decided it was only right to correct your ignorance and to call you out on a few things.
1. So far you have given us 2 examples of where recruiting a KPD early has gone wrong. Over a 15 year period, that is not a significant sample size. There have been nearly 20 KPP that have been taken in the top 10 in recent history and many of them were picked with the clubs being unsure of defence or forward. Yes Dom, it is often stated in a draft room that player could be a forward or worst case a defender.

2. You were given you examples of KPD taken early and you dismissed them. Why? My guess is you generally dislike adverse feedback and like most Millennials, you prefer to be told that you are talented and always right. Sorry princes, the world doesn't work like that.

3. You state that a player drafted as a KPD that becomes a KPF is irrelevant. So ignore that player from the evidence.

4. You state that a player drafted as a KPF and becomes a KPD is irrelevant. So ignore that player from the evidence.

What I think you lack is insights into the recruiting teams.

I also think you lack the understanding of development coaches and how they go about developing a tall and working out where they are best suited - forward or defense.


Let us recap on the last draft where Norf (yes, your old mates) had the gift of picks 2 and 3 and Melbourne clamouring for pick 3.

How much better would Norf be looking if they had of traded pick 3 for pick 6 and 11? Instead of adding another best available mid/forward in Zane Duursma (who by the way - their family has shown that they have no loyalty to a club that drafts them), they could have added Connor O'Sullivan at 6 and Will Green at 11 (best pure ruck in the draft from my reading).


I could rattle on but alas, I am already tiring of you.

Let me close with a couple of facts.

Darcy Moore AA KPD - he was written up as a Key Position Player. In his draft year, he played KPF, KPD and ruck. Have you read Twomey's write up?




Naughton drafted early as a KPD as he had not played much as a KPF, you dismiss the pick because he is now playing KPF. Have you read Twomey's profile




In closing, could you please elaborate of you post "particularly in an environment where top picks are scarce".

I ask you a very simple questions. When are top picks ever not scarce? It is these sort of statements that make you look rather foolish.

 

[absolutemadness]

The interesting issue is Banfield. If he actually ends up a high end father son next year (champs will be interesting) might make even nore sense to trade next years first pick

 

[eaglevision]

I would be happy to add Draper but that would only be if we can lock in a KPD trade for our second pick like Busslinger. We struggle every time Barrass or the Gov are out because our replacement KPDs are thin. Gov has two years at most and so we need a young KPD with elite kicking and I think that’s Trainor. I will be okay with another elite mid this draft but we need to get a KPD that isn’t high risk so how. For every KPD that is a late pick that’s just increased risk because while some turn out a lot don’t. Sure we might get lucky but how much risk can we take and Trainor is very mobile and his kicking is very high end. I reckon we would be better trying to buy an elite mid via feee agency tbh

Draper’s disposal by foot is concerning. If we’re taking a mid with our 1R I’d want more outside and elite by foot.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

At the end of the day the question becomes in three years time do we rather have

1. Harley reid being the first string/leading the midfield with weight on his shoulders

OR

2. Cal Jamo/Bazzo/Harry Edwards leading our backline with the weight on his shoulders. One of those being our FB.

Both are nightmare results but this draft stops one of those from occuring. We draft Luke who will lead the backline. We draft a mid who will prevent all the weight on Harley.

There are other draft in next three years. But I'm making the assumption this is our last draft and our last free agency for the next 3 just to create the urgency and importance of this draft.

I'm leaning for a mid just to keep Harley happy and to stop all the weight on him.

3. Neither of these things are true now, let alone after another draft or two.

Take best available. Aka a mid.

 

[stallon]

The interesting issue is Banfield. If he actually ends up a high end father son next year (champs will be interesting) might make even nore sense to trade next years first pick

Hes a midfielder too I think? does that mean we have less of a need for a mid this year?
Id be happy to pass on midfielders this year if we can fix our defence tbh.
Hewett, Hall, Johnston, burgiel etc still havent had much opportunity. More new mids might hinder that

 

[Cuzz09]

Draper’s disposal by foot is concerning. If we’re taking a mid with our 1R I’d want more outside and elite by foot.

I want a ball pig that gets 30+ weekly.

We need some accumulators that can gain metres.

That's pretty much all you need in modern footy

Contest and field position locking it in

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[eaglevision]

I want a ball pig that gets 30+ weekly.

We need some accumulators that can gain metres.

That's pretty much all you need in modern footy

Contest and field position locking it in

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I think that’s what we recruited Clay for.

 

[absolutemadness]

Draper’s disposal by foot is concerning. If we’re taking a mid with our 1R I’d want more outside and elite by foot.

Yeah that’s not unfair. I actually think he will tidy that up. He was an underager but be interesting to see how he goes this year. I am not saying Draper necessarily just referencing him given he is in that elite mid group and others have raised.

 

[Cuzz09]

I think that’s what we recruited Clay for.

I'd give him a debut.

I know he's hardly tearing it up in the wafl but think he needs an opportunity

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[eaglevision]

I'd give him a debut.

I know he's hardly tearing it up in the wafl but think he needs an opportunity

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I agree, he’s going to learn SFA if he’s roving to 5 hit outs for a match, that’s his bread and butter. Better numbers with Peel last year. Was some knocks on his defensive game which is why I think Johnston has gone past him. Would actually much rather both these guys are playing through the midfield instead of Sheed and LEdwards.

 

[absolutemadness]

Hes a midfielder too I think? does that mean we have less of a need for a mid this year?
Id be happy to pass on midfielders this year if we can fix our defence tbh.
Hewett, Hall, Johnston, burgiel etc still havent had much opportunity. More new mids might hinder that

Yes he is a 188cm underage mid this year. So eligible as a father/son next year. Hopefully he has a good championship and is a gift next year. Either way I am not opposed to trading out our first round pick next year. I think we will improve again next year and so it’s a good gamble.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I’d like to put some focus on getting Adelaide’s 1st rounder this year for our future one. I feel a trade of

WCE future 1st and 2024 2nd rounder for Adelaide’s 2024 first rounder and 2025 2nd rounder.

Lets Adelaide protect a first rounder without the ability of losing it to a father/son bid for Welsh and gets us into the top 10 in a midfielder strong draft class . We still need to focus on the midfield. Apart from Hall nothing else ready to come in as a midfielder really. Feels the right time also to not tank too hard also and hopefully have a okay season in 2025 with Yeo, McGovern still going and an extra pre season into Reid, Hewett, Maric etc.

 

[absolutemadness]

Dyson sharp is a gun mid for next year as is Best from WA. Can’t see us finishing low enough for either next year. I could be wrong but once we get Allen and Flynn back in the team I feel like we will be more than competitive

 

[noobermensch]

Another strong performance from Trainor in the second of the Academy games although not quite at the BOG standard of game 1. He and his defensive cohort struggled at times with the size and marking power of the Footscray forwards, and his normally strong disposal was at times a little wayward.

 

[absolutemadness]

I’d like to put some focus on getting Adelaide’s 1st rounder this year for our future one. I feel a trade of

WCE future 1st and 2024 2nd rounder for Adelaide’s 2024 first rounder and 2025 2nd rounder.

Lets Adelaide protect a first rounder without the ability of losing it to a father/son bid for Welsh and gets us into the top 10 in a midfielder strong draft class . We still need to focus on the midfield. Apart from Hall nothing else ready to come in as a midfielder really. Feels the right time also to not tank too hard also and hopefully have a okay season in 2025 with Yeo, McGovern still going and an extra pre season into Reid, Hewett, Maric etc.

Agree would be good to bring in an extra first rounder this year if can make it work

 

[Wooshaaaa]

I agree, he’s going to learn SFA if he’s roving to 5 hit outs for a match, that’s his bread and butter. Better numbers with Peel last year. Was some knocks on his defensive game which is why I think Johnston has gone past him. Would actually much rather both these guys are playing through the midfield instead of Sheed and LEdwards.

Sheed and Edwards are useless. We may as well play the kids. Get them in there around Harley and long.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

I love it when you try to toss crap over the fence.

Let us go back to where this discussion started. It was raised as a scenario "Do we trade back a possible pick 3 to 5 to get 2 picks - a pick around 10 PLUS a pick to satisfy Doggies with Buss". In a normal room full of people with insights, I expected a decent dialogue. Oh no. Mr Dom Sheed Pocket comes up with grandiose statement about what everyone and nobody as ever done. Throwing out a heap of bravado statements and then patting himself of the back for posting it - which was actually such utter rubbish that I felt I should tell the king he is wearing no clothes. Alas, the comment of the truth was disliked and I find myself wondering whether I should bother educating the ill informed. Wife is away at the moment so I actually have the time and am enjoying it.


There was a sudden feeling of remorse that came over me. Am I responding to one of the ex Norf recruiters!! It all started to make sense as to why you would blurt out such statements of embarrassment. No way would you go for a KPD - we have finished low and we can get the best KPDers with late picks and even just grab them off the rookie list.


My bad, I digressed. Back to the story. I believe it was about then you went out and stated something like "clubs don't invest an early pick for a KPD".

I decided it was only right to correct your ignorance and to call you out on a few things.
1. So far you have given us 2 examples of where recruiting a KPD early has gone wrong. Over a 15 year period, that is not a significant sample size. There have been nearly 20 KPP that have been taken in the top 10 in recent history and many of them were picked with the clubs being unsure of defence or forward. Yes Dom, it is often stated in a draft room that player could be a forward or worst case a defender.

2. You were given you examples of KPD taken early and you dismissed them. Why? My guess is you generally dislike adverse feedback and like most Millennials, you prefer to be told that you are talented and always right. Sorry princes, the world doesn't work like that.

3. You state that a player drafted as a KPD that becomes a KPF is irrelevant. So ignore that player from the evidence.

4. You state that a player drafted as a KPF and becomes a KPD is irrelevant. So ignore that player from the evidence.

What I think you lack is insights into the recruiting teams.

I also think you lack the understanding of development coaches and how they go about developing a tall and working out where they are best suited - forward or defense.


Let us recap on the last draft where Norf (yes, your old mates) had the gift of picks 2 and 3 and Melbourne clamouring for pick 3.

How much better would Norf be looking if they had of traded pick 3 for pick 6 and 11? Instead of adding another best available mid/forward in Zane Duursma (who by the way - their family has shown that they have no loyalty to a club that drafts them), they could have added Connor O'Sullivan at 6 and Will Green at 11 (best pure ruck in the draft from my reading).


I could rattle on but alas, I am already tiring of you.

Let me close with a couple of facts.

Darcy Moore AA KPD - he was written up as a Key Position Player. In his draft year, he played KPF, KPD and ruck. Have you read Twomey's write up?

View attachment 1973869


Naughton drafted early as a KPD as he had not played much as a KPF, you dismiss the pick because he is now playing KPF. Have you read Twomey's profile

View attachment 1973873


In closing, could you please elaborate of you post "particularly in an environment where top picks are scarce".

I ask you a very simple questions. When are top picks ever not scarce? It is these sort of statements that make you look rather foolish.

You continue to post, without saying anything of value, and without offering anything of substance, and continually you get things wrong, misread, misquote and mischaracterise what we are talking about.

Old age is obviously getting to you.

The conversation was never about Busslinger. It was about splitting for two top ten picks to use on a mid and TRAINOR in the draft.

So your starting point is wrong.

We are talking about using a top 10 pick on a KPD based on their form in under 18’s as a KPD.

Naughton is a great player, but he isn’t playing as a KPD, and hasn’t played KPD since 2018.

Darcy Moore was drafted as a KPF.

Based on the fact we are talking about DRAFTING a KPD to PLAY KPD at AFL level, neither of those players are relevant to the conversation at hand.

Almost all clubs KPD’s and some of the best KPD’s in the AFL are picks outside top ten, taken deep in the draft, and even in the rookie draft.

The exceptions are Weitering, and Moore who was not drafted as a KPD. Thanks for the write up on Darcy from Cal which proves my point for me.

If North drafted O’Sullivan, i don’t think he moves the needle much for them. He’s a first year tall. In 2-3 years time that might be different, but that’s an untestable hypothetical, and a nonsensical one because you’re assuming that a first year tall can make a difference to a basket case club that has problem all over the ground.

Whatever I may lack, I’m certainly not going to gain it from out of date and out of touch, geriatric who is consistently unable to grasp basic concepts, and offers absolutely nothing, while making basic errors of fact.

It’s clear you’re losing your faculties, and I suggest you have a good lie down.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

So with nearly a third of the season gone, the ladder and hence draft picks is starting to become clearer.

We currently hold pick 4 (virtue of being 15th. Going on best available, we are still in prime position to take a high end mid. One of Smillie, O'Sullivan, Smith and Draper are attainable.

What do I see happening to the 3 teams below us?

• Norf are still a basket case and without any KPD, they look a lock for the wooden spoon
• Hawks are looking dead set average and treading water
• Tigers are harder to read as they have so many injuries. I could see them potentially winning some more games and leap frogging us.

The teams above us:

• St Blunders are looking like a typical Ross team with the inability to score. I think they will win at least another 4 to 5 games so finish higher than us.
• I cannot see any of the rest dropping hard - it would have to be injuries that cause a fall.

I love our improvement but I cannot see us getting out of the bottom 5 as it currently stands.


What about the teams with multiple R1 picks

Suns with their own, Dogs and Norf priority pick 20 - currently 8, 10 and 20
Freo with their own, Pies and Port - 9, 11 and 14
Swans with their own and Norf priority pick 19 - currently 17 and 19

Who is in the market for trading up and who is looking to push picks into 2025?
Lions with pick 6 (likely to fall back) will be for sale due to Levi looking like he will attract a top 4 bid
Crows at 7 will be either looking at trading up to get Draper or trading way back to get points for Tyler Welsh.

Obviously the AFL making changes to the academy and F/S prospects will play an important role.

All this means I will refrain from making potential trade scenarios until we get a clearer view of the talent ranking and then a clearer picture of where the picks will land.

All those words, and once again nothing of any value offered by you.

How can someone write so much, and say absolutely nothing.

A true gift you have, BB!

 

[stallon]

I agree, he’s going to learn SFA if he’s roving to 5 hit outs for a match, that’s his bread and butter. Better numbers with Peel last year. Was some knocks on his defensive game which is why I think Johnston has gone past him. Would actually much rather both these guys are playing through the midfield instead of Sheed and LEdwards.

I think the club is wary of going too young in the midfield. If we went with Yeo, Kelly, Hunt on a wing along with 4-5 teenagers we might be too young.

I do think we should try to give them some AFL time before Hewett is back though, as I could imagine he'd be the priority over the others currently in the WAFL

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

You continue to post, without saying anything of value, and without offering anything of substance, and continually you get things wrong, misread, misquote and mischaracterise what we are talking about.

Old age is obviously getting to you.

The conversation was never about Busslinger. It was about splitting for two top ten picks to use on a mid and TRAINOR in the draft.

So your starting point is wrong.

We are talking about using a top 10 pick on a KPD based on their form in under 18’s as a KPD.

Naughton is a great player, but he isn’t playing as a KPD, and hasn’t played KPD since 2018.

Darcy Moore was drafted as a KPF.

Based on the fact we are talking about DRAFTING a KPD to PLAY KPD at AFL level, neither of those players are relevant to the conversation at hand.

Almost all clubs KPD’s and some of the best KPD’s in the AFL are picks outside top ten, taken deep in the draft, and even in the rookie draft.

The exceptions are Weitering, and Moore who was not drafted as a KPD. Thanks for the write up on Darcy from Cal which proves my point for me.

If North drafted O’Sullivan, i don’t think he moves the needle much for them. He’s a first year tall. In 2-3 years time that might be different, but that’s an untestable hypothetical, and a nonsensical one because you’re assuming that a first year tall can make a difference to a basket case club that has problem all over the ground.

Whatever I may lack, I’m certainly not going to gain it from out of date and out of touch, geriatric who is consistently unable to grasp basic concepts, and offers absolutely nothing, while making basic errors of fact.

It’s clear you’re losing your faculties, and I suggest you have a good lie down.

I offer you a gift

A wise man once said better to let the world think you are a fool that to open your mouth and remove the doubt.

As far as your agist retorts, I suspect you are also free with your sexist and racist views of the world. Funny what weak people like to do. Next time, please don’t boo Sonny Walters at the derby

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

I offer you a gift

A wise man once said better to let the world think you are a fool that to open your mouth and remove the doubt.

As far as your agist retorts, I suspect you are also free with your sexist and racist views of the world. Funny what weak people like to do. Next time, please don’t boo Sonny Walters at the derby

Is this you trying to back pedal after realising the whole premise of your argument is wrong after making a fool of yourself saying it was about Busslinger, when it wasn’t?

Maybe try putting your glasses on and reading before responding in future.

It usually works out better if you actually understand what you’re responding to, you old git!

 

[eaglevision]

I think the club is wary of going too young in the midfield. If we went with Yeo, Kelly, Hunt on a wing along with 4-5 teenagers we might be too young.

I do think we should try to give them some AFL time before Hewett is back though, as I could imagine he'd be the priority over the others currently in the WAFL

That’s exactly what’s happening but we’re round 8 next week and neither of them have played a game. Has to be better balance than that for development.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Another strong performance from Trainor in the second of the Academy games although not quite at the BOG standard of game 1. He and his defensive cohort struggled at times with the size and marking power of the Footscray mids, and his normally strong disposal was at times a little wayward.

Looks better when the ball is on the ground than when it's in the air.

 

[UseR2006]

We didn’t have a spot available this time last year.

This time last year we had:
Nic Nat - Not getting back
Jack Williams - Not getting back
Liam Ryan - Not getting back
Gov - Not getting back

There was way more chance of there being a spot opening up than there is right now.
Just because we hadn't made the call at that time that they were done for the year didn't mean we wouldn't have been looking at the MSD.

This year is completely different.
There is a good chance all of the current medium term injuries on the list get back before the bye or just after.
Hewett would be the trickiest of them to judge but it's not a long enough term to shelve him for the year.

So unless things go south with one of the injured or we get a new long term injury that is season ending we wont have a MSD spot this year.

 

[absolutemadness]

I am just trying to provide a circuit breaker tbh. Maybe because I am a few whiskeys down

Wish Chesser showed more. I have been hopeful but hard to see how he gets there with such a low possession count playing wing