List Mgmt. Trade & Draft Discussion 2023 post season - Picks Reid,30,40,49,66 (Bush league)

[Lore]

Hello Eagles fans!

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Spoiler: 2023 Draft Order

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Keys you may like to sticky this post & move it to the start of the thread (so the sticky post doesn't rotate if a post is deleted before it), or copy it to your draft thread if you have one.

 

[shooshka]

Just on academy - father son etc.

1. I have no problem with either process that allows a club to have the option of bid matching to secure a linked player.
2. I don’t have a problem with clubs assembling a collection of lower picks to bid match.

I have a problem with the capacity to bid match and gain a discount price. If the kids that good pay the asking price.

I also have a problem with the pick 40 threshold.

So, my solution.
1. Retain academy and father-son but make entry into academies more rigorous process. Eg there is no way Sanders should have recognised as later entry as Norfs academy player. There’ll be others similar.
2. Retain bid matching but remove discount.
3. Remove pick 40 threshold entirely. No threshold in place.
4. Free agency compensation - boot all AFL issued compensations. Player can nominate and clubs got to work out the deal. Mind you we’re almost there anyway.


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If it comes with a revamp of the points I don’t mind it.

We saw ourselves that 2,15,17 were not enough to sway us to trade #1. At the moment the difference between 1 & 2 is pick 37. That is ludicrous.

2 to 1 needs to be somewhere around pick 6 value, 3 to 2 about 8 maybe. 4 to 3 around 10.

Cascade it until about pick 10 which we know takes 28-30ish to move up 1 spot.

Basically rejig the first 18 or so picks, and with what you have stated above it works.

The only other critical rule addition is limiting picks to list spots (even with live trading). Either teams delist more players and take the risk they don’t go elsewhere or they take higher ranking picks to the draft. What is lost in all of the media beat up is not that WC are super unhappy about GC getting 4 players in R1, it is that our pick 19 ended up pick 30, and not a single pick prior to it was used to match a bid.


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[WCE_phil]

A partial solution is to make only the first 2 rounds of picks worth any points.

 

[dinnaz]

A partial solution is to make only the first 2 rounds of picks worth any points.

Well that already happened this year didn't it

 

[Kegs15]

Well that already happened this year didn't it

Nah for reference Gold Coast matched the bid for Jake Rogers at pick 14 using picks 42, 47 and 49, gaining 65 back as well.

Just looking at that is obscene. Imagine if we were doing a straight up trade and offered those three picks to St Kilda for pick 28 to get Collard - we'd get laughed at, even if we didn't have the nerve to ask for 65 back.

 

[FKASC]

Nah for reference Gold Coast matched the bid for Jake Rogers at pick 14 using picks 42, 47 and 49, gaining 65 back as well.

Just looking at that is obscene. Imagine if we were doing a straight up trade and offered those three picks to St Kilda for pick 28 to get Collard - we'd get laughed at, even if we didn't have the nerve to ask for 65 back.

Just turns the draft into two different things altogether for different teams

 

[TheNewAnchor]

Get rid of the father/son picks, they're a crock. As for NGA's, give each club one (or perhaps two) NGA picks which they can use on their own NGA's before the main draft. After that, all NGA hopefuls go into the main draft. If a club doesn't have an NGA, tough luck. If clubs are going to put time and resources into the NGA's there should be a flow on benefit to those clubs.

 

[ziad]

Just turns the draft into two different things altogether for different teams

Some clubs shop at Harrods and others at Cash and Carry

 

[Rowan18]

Get rid of the father/son picks, they're a crock. As for NGA's, give each club one (or perhaps two) NGA picks which they can use on their own NGA's before the main draft. After that, all NGA hopefuls go into the main draft. If a club doesn't have an NGA, tough luck. If clubs are going to put time and resources into the NGA's there should be a flow on benefit to those clubs.

I like the father son but they need to amend it so you still pay value for them. Imagine if one of Judd's sons wanted to come play for us but he was forced into the draft and ended up at Freo instead?

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

Father son needs to stay.
It all depends on luck and is a good AFL tradition imo, while academies can lay claim to players that would've been good AFL players either way.
There are only a few father sons each year, compared to academy nominations which compromises the draft even more.

 

[eaglesfan84]

Not the draft I expected/was hoping for but the recruiters know way more than I ever will so prepared to see how this cohort pans out

• Harley Reid was a no brainer we just had to shut out the external noise and draft him which we did. The jewel in the crown of this draft and we took him as reward for being last
• Archer Reid was a surprise as a tall forward. Not sure where that leaves the Williams lads. Seems talented but inconsistent and needing a lot of development
• Clay Hall I’m happy with on our list but not only did we take him a bit early, we also traded out our F3 to move up 2 spots to get him. Fills a need as an inside accumulator that can find the ball. His strong body could be useful so don’t mind the player just where he was taken
• Harvey Johnston was a typical ROB selection from nowhere who I know nothing about. The type of selection we’ve made in the past overlooking more highly rated players to take a left field option. History of those picks has been mixed

Will be watching how Simpson and Zakostelsky in particular perform at Fremantle and Brisbane respectively

Overall, for a side that finished last it all seems a bit underwhelming aside from Reid.

But they’re all Eagles now so best of luck to all four lads and hope they whelm my socks off in the years to come

Yeah I'm disappointed about Zakotelsky for sure, I think our Key Back stakes need someone strong and athletic, we don't really have that atm

 

[eaglesfan84]

Does Tom Cole count?

View attachment 1858363

Spent the off-season in the US hanging out outside of Walmarts looking for cash labour jobs.

Funny asf bro

 

[Choogler]

Get rid of the father/son picks, they're a crock. As for NGA's, give each club one (or perhaps two) NGA picks which they can use on their own NGA's before the main draft. After that, all NGA hopefuls go into the main draft. If a club doesn't have an NGA, tough luck. If clubs are going to put time and resources into the NGA's there should be a flow on benefit to those clubs.

What we are looking for is that the integrity of the draft, particularly the first 18 picks be maintained and there are 4 things that are compromising it at the moment.
1. Assistance Picks.
2. Free agency Compensation Picks
3. Father/Son
4. Academy Pick Matching (For Northern States)

My solutions is, starting with the easiest one:

1. Absolutely no assistance picks under any circumstances. If a club stuffs up their recruiting, they fix the problem themselves. No more begging to the AFL.

2. The first round of the draft be completely quarantined. The only way the first round draft order changes is through pick trading.

3. With the quarantining of 1st rounders, no compensation picks before the 2nd pick of the 2nd round because the club finishing last should get the first pick in the first 2 rounds.
This will stop destination clubs "playing the game" and getting a free hit. It will ensure market value for free agents by ensuring clubs no longer overpay for Free Agents to ensure the club of departure won't match. The removal of first round compensation will see more matching and trading for FA's at real market value because the pick they receive will not be more than the player is worth. The perfect example was McKay this year... he was never worth pick 3 and if NM were only going to get a second rounder, would they have accepted that or forced Essendon to trade. Had they forced the trade, would Essendon have given up a first rounder for him.. I doubt it?
3. Father/Son - I agree completely with the FS concept but it was never intended to provide clubs with a free hit or to double dip. It is important to allow those family links to clubs to be maintained but Clubs should have to pay a realistic price. The current system allows clubs to trade away a first round pick knowing they can get an elite talent for cheap picks and that is double dipping. It happened with Ashcroft, Daicos, Darcy and a host of others.
I would like to see a return to the days of Pre-draft bidding on FS prospects. All clubs get a list of FS nominations to evaluate and then submit where they will bid on the FS nominations. The nominated FS club must then match with a pick in that round. If they have traded their pick away, then they give up their future pick in the appropriate round. Eg: Daicos and Darcy - neither club had a first rounder having traded them away to strengthen their hand in the 2020 draft in the knowledge that they'd each get their man, a first rounder, in the 2021 draft using cheap later picks.
Under the pre-draft bidding system, if a club nominated that they would bid on Daicos at 4, then Collingwood would have to use ANY first rounder to match
It is time clubs paid appropriately for their FS players.

4. Academy Picks ... all clubs to get a free selection of one academy player... all clubs invest in their academy players and deserve at least a partial return on investment.
The northern academies are still an issue because GC and GWS in the past have recruited (mainly) elite Vic kids, trained them up and watched a heap of them go home. It became a perpetual cycle, so I actually support additional assistance for those clubs to retain kids from their areas. I would still allow matching but without the 20% discount. This would see at least some matching using more realistic picks and therefore other clubs picks blowing out like our pick 19 this year.

I think the above would lead to a far less compromised draft, particularly in the first round.

Any comments?

 

[Choogler]

Just on academy - father son etc.

1. I have no problem with either process that allows a club to have the option of bid matching to secure a linked player.
2. I don’t have a problem with clubs assembling a collection of lower picks to bid match.

I have a problem with the capacity to bid match and gain a discount price. If the kids that good pay the asking price.

I also have a problem with the pick 40 threshold.

So, my solution.
1. Retain academy and father-son but make entry into academies more rigorous process. Eg there is no way Sanders should have recognised as later entry as Norfs academy player. There’ll be others similar.
2. Retain bid matching but remove discount.
3. Remove pick 40 threshold entirely. No threshold in place.
4. Free agency compensation - boot all AFL issued compensations. Player can nominate and clubs got to work out the deal. Mind you we’re almost there anyway.


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To ensure clubs pay the asking price for FS talent I'd do the following.
Reintroduce FS Pre-draft bidding - all clubs get a list of FS nominations, evaluate it and submit with what pick they would pick the FS player if he was available
The nominated FS club must then determine if they are prepared to match and if they are, then they can only do so with a pick in the nominated round. If they don't have one, then they forfeit their future equivalent and their next pick in the current draft. That would pretty quickly get rid of clubs double dipping by trading away their first rounders and increasing their earlier draft hands like Brisbane, Pies and WB did for Ashcroft, Daicos and Darcy drafts knowing they would get an elite talent for cheap picks. BTW to ensure integrity, if another club nominates a FS with a certain pick and the FS nominated club declines to match, then they have to use that pick to draft the player.

 

[Choogler]

Do we have any potential Father Sons in the near future? I know a few other teams supporters are already counting down to some.

Banfields young'n Bailey is the only one I'm aware of!

 

[UseR2006]

I'd have the Academy picks outside the normal draft, like F/S nomination.
All clubs can have one pick from their Academy.
GC and GWS can have 2 picks (maybe even just GC).
All other talent from the Academy goes into the National draft pool if they nominate.
If a player from the academies gets selected by any club the AFL can essentially reward the club through funds per player selected.
(this will create an incentive for clubs to invest and produce quality players even if they are not ultimately selected by that club at the draft).

I Agree with locking the first round from Academy bidding.

I like Father / Son and if those picks were the only degrading of the first round it wouldn't bother me too much. (you'd know they were gone anyway pre-draft).

and No compensation picks within the first round and none that dilute the picks of those that finish bottom 4 in the second round.
(so earliest picks for compo could be 23 onwards assuming no f/s selections).

f/s selections can only be matched with 1st/2nd round picks and if passed through the first 2 rounds can then only be selected by the nominated club at the end of the draft (this way speculative f/s picks can get through to clubs without it diluting their draft hand).

Just a few thoughts on how i'd look at it.

 

[Cornelius Roy]

Nah for reference Gold Coast matched the bid for Jake Rogers at pick 14 using picks 42, 47 and 49, gaining 65 back as well.

Just looking at that is obscene. Imagine if we were doing a straight up trade and offered those three picks to St Kilda for pick 28 to get Collard - we'd get laughed at, even if we didn't have the nerve to ask for 65 back.

The great news is if the afl can’t manufacture their desired result through the draft they can just fall back to plan B and use the umpires like they did in the bulldogs premiership and the last quarter of the GWS/Pies prelim last year.

 

[alexandro]

How would young Moraes feel about coming West he’s a quality looking prospect?

 

[random260]

Just saw the video of eagles inviting first year draft players parents for a tour. Very good initiative! All expense paid tour of our fantastic facilitaties.

If norf even thought of hosting one of those it would be at their dung heap.

 

[bzparkes]

Just saw the video of eagles inviting first year draft players parents for a tour. Very good initiative! All expense paid tour of our fantastic facilitaties.

If norf even thought of hosting one of those it would be at their dung heap.

Norf just had Brady Rawlings hand out all the new guernseys instead.

 

[eaglevision]

Norf just had Brady Rawlings hand out all the new guernseys instead.

*Second-hand

 

[Farang83150]

Just saw the video of eagles inviting first year draft players parents for a tour. Very good initiative! All expense paid tour of our fantastic facilitaties.

If norf even thought of hosting one of those it would be at their dung heap.

Can just see it..."so you might not realise it but you probably do...this used to be a shipping container".