List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[AsterixTheGaul]

Yeah but they're probably paying him whilst he pursues NBA.

I imagine we didn't want to do that.

Could literally be paying a bloke 2-3 years to never train with the club whilst he plays basketball.

But the alternative is for us to have that cash in the bank. We have the cash reserves and nothing much to spend it on.

To say I am disappointed is an understatement.

 

[Kapowie1]

Yeah but they're probably paying him whilst he pursues NBA.

I imagine we didn't want to do that.

Could literally be paying a bloke 2-3 years to never train with the club whilst he plays basketball.

The only positive is that 3 years is a long time. Maybe things might change while he is dodging school shootings for the next few seasons. Maybe home and family might call a bit louder than he thinks it will


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[AsterixTheGaul]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/the-tackle-sam-landsberger-and-glenn-mcfarlanes-likes-and-dislikes-from-gather-round/news-story/473bd602b20d0ab41b6efc3f50ca1917

COULD HAWKS COME LAST AND LOSE HARLEY?

Here is the doomsday scenario for the Hawks. Imagine if they slump to their first wooden spoon since 1965 (they currently sit last with a percentage under 60) … and miss out on No.1 draft pick and Dustin Martin clone Harley Reid due to penalties from the racism saga. That would seemingly rely on guilty findings that implicate the club – not just individuals. But it is a possibility the AFL can’t emphatically rule out right now.

For those that thought the loss of draft picks for the Hawks is not real, even the HUN is floating the issue.

 

[Monocle]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/the-tackle-sam-landsberger-and-glenn-mcfarlanes-likes-and-dislikes-from-gather-round/news-story/473bd602b20d0ab41b6efc3f50ca1917

COULD HAWKS COME LAST AND LOSE HARLEY?

Here is the doomsday scenario for the Hawks. Imagine if they slump to their first wooden spoon since 1965 (they currently sit last with a percentage under 60) … and miss out on No.1 draft pick and Dustin Martin clone Harley Reid due to penalties from the racism saga. That would seemingly rely on guilty findings that implicate the club – not just individuals. But it is a possibility the AFL can’t emphatically rule out right now.

For those that thought the loss of draft picks for the Hawks is not real, even the HUN is floating the issue.

Earlier this year I head Damian Barrett talking about this very issue and he said the information that he had received was that the loss of draft picks was a very real possibility.
He also indicated that the seriousness and number of incriminating incidents was a MAJOR concern to the AFL.
He went as far to say that the other AFL clubs are all pretty pissed at the Hawks for what’s happened.

So I guess it’s watch this space.

 

[dinnaz]

Yeah but they're probably paying him whilst he pursues NBA.

I imagine we didn't want to do that.

Could literally be paying a bloke 2-3 years to never train with the club whilst he plays basketball.

Fine, we got nothing else to spend cash on. 100k -200k for a free hit. And isnt cat B is outside the salary cap? There's definitely tricks that can be done

 

[bzparkes]

Fine, we got nothing else to spend cash in. 100k -200k for a free hit. And isnt cat B is outside the salary cap? There's definitely tricks that can be done

Obviously C'Wood's offer was more enticing, for whatever reason.

Maybe he simply didn't want to live in Perth?

 

[RanaNaved]

**** Condon would have been awesome

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

For those wondering whether we might be up for the Harley Reid pick, I sense it will be very clear after round 11.

Next up are Port away, Blues home, and Tigers away. We will be long odds in all three of these games.

Then comes the run of Suns home, Hawks in Tassie and Drug Rats home. These three I had as very winnable but that was before the injury tally and before the Drug Rats started playing decent football.

What reinforcements will we back in the next month?
Shuey is a yes (but for how many games after he comes back in)
Sheed a yes

Best 22 no
NicNat is a no as he has been unable to run and the dark demon is whispering that he might be done
Gov is a no
Ryan is a no
Cripps a definite no

Depth maybe
HEdwards
Jamieson

The rest like Chesser, Hewett and JWilliams are probably not making the difference anyway and more about getting games into our youth

So for the stretch of the telling 3 games in rounds 9 to 11, we probably only add Shuey and Sheed.

It might not be a wooden spoon but it will be damn close to one.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

BOND 007 - do you have any insight that you can share on the Condon selection of Collingwood?

My hope was that Trevor loosened up the purse strings and made him an offer the other clubs could not match. There again, maybe there were other issues at play

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Fine, we got nothing else to spend cash in. 100k -200k for a free hit. And isnt cat B is outside the salary cap? There's definitely tricks that can be done

If it was outside the cap, why not then throw $500k p.a. on the table

 

[WCE_phil]

I floated that it would take 500k pa guaranteed for it to happen and yes it's outside the cap.

I am so ****ing pissed about this.

 

[CountryLad]

Unless you missed the last few years, we have become Fremantle.

Excepting they have a competent, competitive reserves set up to develop their talent.

Not saying we can't turn it around over the next few years, but got no one but the WC hierarchy to blame for this mess.

Disagree, we were always going to drop down the ladder at some point it’s the nature of the system.

I’d agree if you said we went a year to late but realistically we had no draft collateral in 2020 anyway so during the 2021 season the club decided a “list transition” was required. With hindsight, we all know what happened last year and it’s now turned into a rebuild.

The issue with a lot of the outrage we see in the forums is it’s simply either wrong or misdirected which lead to my comment about Fremantle.

So many think it’s like fixing a tap. Put a new washer in it and it’s no longer leaking.

So they will attack Bailey Williams, Tom Barrass yesterday, Greg Clarke or Connor West just to name a few like it’s there fault that we are so bad or they are the reason we lost and if we get rid of them then problem fixed.

The reality is that all lists have players that are finding there (speculative or recently drafted) way or aren’t at the level required and this shows out even more when a side is struggling.

The issue is that our top isn’t good enough not that certain players that are role players are shit or pathetic like some posters claim.

Some of these players are giving it there absolute best but are being overwhelmed because we don’t have the A grade talent around them like for instance Geelong do.

Attacking these players is a very Fremantle supporter thing to do but maybe I’m wrong and it’s a West Coast Eagles thing too.

 

[Keys]

Cat B is definitely outside the salary cap but I’ve read previously without being able to confirm that it’s inside the football department soft cap

Like I said I don’t know if that’s accurate

 

[Monocle]

Whilst I am pissed that he choose Collingwood, I still think it’s a long shot that he plays AFL.

While I don’t think he will make the NBA, he will be able to pick up very good coin playing in the European League and even the Asia league.

The other snippet of info is that he much prefers playing basketball to football.

The pertinent question is IF he ever plays AFL.

That said I really hope we haven’t be caught asleep at the wheel here, as my lack of faith in the current management of the Club leaves me nervous that we may have been caught wanting …… hope I am wrong.

Would be good to get BOND 007 to give us some of the back story with Condon.

 

[Keys]

For the college basketball buffs out there, does Condon receiving money from Collingwood impact his amateur status for college basketball

I thought they couldn’t earn money to be eligible- has that changed or would a payment for not playing another sport in a different country not count?

 

[Obeanie1]

“West Coast had also flagged an interest,”

And from another linked article

“West Coast, too, is among the clubs interested.”

It’s not like we weren’t having a go. Obviously several clubs were chasing him and he landed at Collingwood for whatever reason but this seems to have been a factor

“Condon's call to choose the Pies as his potential landing spot was also shaped by coach Craig McRae's influence in Mason Cox's development,”

If you had a choice where would you go?

Collingwood looking amillion dollars with father son guns popping up everywhere and gree agents lining up to move there.

Whereas the Eagles sign Hunt and are going nowhere fast.

Not a difficult decision really.

 

[Goroyals22]

If you had a choice where would you go?

Collingwood looking amillion dollars with father son guns popping up everywhere and gree agents lining up to move there.

Whereas the Eagles sign Hunt and are going nowhere fast.

Not a difficult decision really.

In a team chock full of plodders and not very good afl players to think that Hunt is the lightening rod for singling out this year is very odd.

 

[Cornelius Roy]

Edit: I looked up what happened to the main picks in the Kelly Trade. 2019 pick 16 was used by Geelong to select Cooper Stephens who has played 7 games and was traded by Geelong to Hawthorn at the end of last year. 2019 27 was used by Gold Coast to get Jeremy Sharp who has played 20 games. 2020 pick 18 was used by GWS to select Ryan Angwin who played one game last year and broke his leg. Looks like a bunch of spuds selected with late first rounders and one OK second rounder.

Far too much is made of the impact of the Kelly deal and not enough of our either drafting or player development of our draftees across the 2014-2018 period.

I understand we were drafting from the arse end of the first round across these years due to our success but if I look at our picks from 2014 - 2018 and consider who I'd confidently back to currently beat their opponent each week I'd have Oscar Allen and Liam Ryan from a list that also includes:

Liam Duggan, Tom lamb, Jackson Nelson, Damien Cavka, Luke Partington, Tom Cole, Kurt Mutimer, Matt Allen, Daniel Venables (bad luck), Josh Rotham, Willie Rioli, Jake Waterman, Jarrod Brander, Brayden Ainsworth, Jack Petrucelle, Xavier O'neill, Luke Foley, Bailey Williams, Jarrod Cameron.

Very happy to see that it looks like the past 2 drafts have been more promising but you just can't miss that often and expect to magically have a competitive list on your hands when your better players start to age out. ATGs player age table highlights the complete dearth of talent across this period brilliantly.

We just need to bottom out and send a solid amount of time refreshing this list, there's no other way about it.

 

[Cornelius Roy]

What reinforcements will we back in the next month?
Shuey is a yes (but for how many games after he comes back in)
Sheed a yes

Unless Dom wants to start offering more than one arm out and watching his direct opponent run at will out of the CBA the second the ball doesn't fall his way this will hurt us more than help us.

Despite the belting I thought for good parts of the match we looked far more competitive at the CBA against Melbourne with 3 midfielders (including Gaff) ensuring every opposition midfielder felt some semblance of pressure.

 

[dinnaz]

Far too much is made of the impact of the Kelly deal and not enough of our either drafting or player development of our draftees across the 2014-2018 period.

I understand we were drafting from the arse end of the first round across these years due to our success but if I look at our picks from 2014 - 2018 and consider who I'd confidently back to currently beat their opponent each week I'd have Oscar Allen and Liam Ryan from a list that also includes:

Liam Duggan, Tom lamb, Jackson Nelson, Damien Cavka, Luke Partington, Tom Cole, Kurt Mutimer, Matt Allen, Daniel Venables (bad luck), Josh Rotham, Willie Rioli, Jake Waterman, Jarrod Brander, Brayden Ainsworth, Jack Petrucelle, Xavier O'neill, Luke Foley, Bailey Williams, Jarrod Cameron.

Very happy to see that it looks like the past 2 drafts have been more promising but you just can't miss that often and expect to magically have a competitive list on your hands when your better players start to age out. ATGs player age table highlights the complete dearth of talent across this period brilliantly.

We just need to bottom out and send a solid amount of time refreshing this list, there's no other way about it.

Going through our history of drafting we have burned a lot of 2nd round picks on high upside players.

"Talented" but with no real production. Lamb springs to mind, Weedon, Karpany.

Also bringing in Wellingham at a exorbitant price has cost us. Redden too but that was a justifiable decision.

Losing Venables, and Brander being shit are 2x that should be pencilled in today. We can forgive a lot of other picks for not turning out as they were all pretty decent options at the time. (Not 19 yr old Foley & Ainsworth)

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Going through our history of drafting we have burned a lot of 2nd round picks on high upside players.

"Talented" but with no real production. Lamb springs to mind, Weedon, Karpany.

Should have ignored this forum and gone vanilla

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Let’s just say WCE sent Condon an email but it went to his junk mail folder, and watch it become gospel.

 

[ziad]

Far too much is made of the impact of the Kelly deal and not enough of our either drafting or player development of our draftees across the 2014-2018 period.

I understand we were drafting from the arse end of the first round across these years due to our success but if I look at our picks from 2014 - 2018 and consider who I'd confidently back to currently beat their opponent each week I'd have Oscar Allen and Liam Ryan from a list that also includes:

Liam Duggan, Tom lamb, Jackson Nelson, Damien Cavka, Luke Partington, Tom Cole, Kurt Mutimer, Matt Allen, Daniel Venables (bad luck), Josh Rotham, Willie Rioli, Jake Waterman, Jarrod Brander, Brayden Ainsworth, Jack Petrucelle, Xavier O'neill, Luke Foley, Bailey Williams, Jarrod Cameron.

Very happy to see that it looks like the past 2 drafts have been more promising but you just can't miss that often and expect to magically have a competitive list on your hands when your better players start to age out. ATGs player age table highlights the complete dearth of talent across this period brilliantly.

We just need to bottom out and send a solid amount of time refreshing this list, there's no other way about it.

Thats not a great or dominant WAFL side you listed. A grade Ammos perhaps. We have squandered multiple past drafts.

 

[Rowan18]

The other side of that argument is who we might have taken with the picks:
Stephens: Georgiades went two picks later, Deven Robertson went a few picks after that.
Sharp: We might’ve taken him, or Rivers who went a few picks later.
We also traded our second rounder that year which Essendon ended up using on Nick Bryan - Chad Warner went with the next pick.

Angwin: Holmes (who was a bolter) and Bowey went in the next few picks, otherwise not a lot of quality around that pick. O’Driscoll went at 27 so nine picks later.

A haul of say Robertson, Sharp, Warner and O’Driscoll would certainly have our age profile looking a lot better than it currently does, although I don’t think it would have been a massive kickstart of a list build.

True - it's all a bunch of what-ifs. In hindsight we wouldn't do the Kelly trade but if there was an alternate universe where Shuey and Yeo had played most games in the last 3 years with Kelly, I'm sure we would be performing a lot better.

 

[RanaNaved]

Whilst I am pissed that he choose Collingwood, I still think it’s a long shot that he plays AFL.

While I don’t think he will make the NBA, he will be able to pick up very good coin playing in the European League and even the Asia league.

The other snippet of info is that he much prefers playing basketball to football.

The pertinent question is IF he ever plays AFL.

That said I really hope we haven’t be caught asleep at the wheel here, as my lack of faith in the current management of the Club leaves me nervous that we may have been caught wanting …… hope I am wrong.

Would be good to get BOND 007 to give us some of the back story with Condon.

It's been stated that WC were in the frame, but what can we sell to him right now? Collingwood is far more appealing atm.