Mega Thread Coronavirus & the AFL - Stage 4 Restrictions in Place in Vic - Part 3

[Gralin]

This is part Three.

Part One can be found here -

Mega Thread - Coronavirus & the AFL - season postponed. (Thread part 1 - cont in part 2, link in thread)

This is part 1 of this thread. Continued in Part 2: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/coronavirus-the-afl-season-postponed-part-2.1237935/

www.bigfooty.com

Part Two can be found here -

Mega Thread - Coronavirus & the AFL - season postponed. Part 2 * CONTINUED ABUSE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED *

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/pages/covid-stats-australia/

www.bigfooty.com

Part 4 can be found here:

Mega Thread - Coronavirus & the AFL - Stage 4 Restrictions in Place in Vic - Part 4

This is part Four. Part One can be found here - https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/coronavirus-the-afl-season-postponed.1236651/unread Part Two can be found here -...

www.bigfooty.com

Australian stats page:

Australian Coronavirus Stats

Latest COVID-19 stats from Australia.

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Monkey King]

if you want to stick with that, knowing it is far from the truth ...

Screenshot from your own reference. Go argue with a mirror figure fudger.

 

[Sydney Kicker]

There is a very good reason why most public servants are labour voters, for example both Federal seats in the ACT have been Labour held for 100% of their existence, Canberra is the ultimate public service town.

Liberals attempt to cut the red tape and the fat generally lazy public service, Labour does the opposite, they love the Public service, the more the better on the Government teat.

Thanks Les. I'm a Canberra based public servant. In the last 2 weeks I've worked about 15-20 hours more than I'm paid to do because of some urgent work. As I'm about to move to another project I doubt I'll get that back in lieu.

What do you do by the way? Just so I can come up with some derogatory stereotype to describe you.

Why don't you head over to the USA since you seem so happy with small Government? Quite clearly a superior place to live. Just make sure you look after your own water, healthcare and job security. Cause unlike Australia's fat and generally lazy public service, the public service in the USA won't.

BTW I vote greens and I hate the labor party.

 

[Les Malone]

Screenshot from your own reference. Go argue with a mirror figure fudger.

facts have hurt you all the way through, now you seem to resort more and more to posting quotes out of context

which totally fits

 

[juss]

Players testing positive, games rescheduled/postponed, uncertainty on Travel and venues for games just over a week away, Teams in hubs, shortened season, shortened quarters, alternate home grounds, this season is getting more and more ridiculous.

Everything ive listed is all the on the fly adjustments, and we are only at round 3...

Asking the question, at what point do we not award a premiership because it’s becoming too convoluted And made up on the fly?

 

[Les Malone]

Thanks Les. I'm a Canberra based public servant. In the last 2 weeks I've worked about 15-20 hours more than I'm paid to do because of some urgent work. As I'm about to move to another project I doubt I'll get that back in lieu.

What do you do by the way? Just so I can come up with some derogatory stereotype to describe you.

Why don't you head over to the USA since you seem so happy with small Government? Quite clearly a superior place to live. Just make sure you look after your own water, healthcare and job security. Cause unlike Australia's fat and generally lazy public service, the public service in the USA won't.

BTW I vote greens and I hate the labor party.

greens are the rich mans labor party, i pity you

i have at one stage been a federal public servant in Canberra, have seen the waste, have seen the laziness , have seen the detachment from real Australia as well

 

[ParapMarkets]

I quoted your own reference with screen shot.

23 studies. IFR .25

Dem da facts. #misrepresent #cherrypicker

Whilst higher than most flu’s, that number is still not very high and definitely not what we locked down for. The IFR for the 2017/18 flu season in the US was 0.50 which is obviously twice as bad.

 

[Sydney Kicker]

greens are the rich mans labor party, i pity you

i have at one stage been a federal public servant in Canberra, have seen the waste, have seen the laziness , have seen the detachment from real Australia as well

I'd say that the likes of Dutton, Brandis and Abbott are far more detached from real Australia than I am.

Sure we have good jobs and we are privileged. But we're not lazy - we work for our money and we get less in wages than the equivalent private sector worker for the benefit of better conditions and job security.

Oh yeah, at the moment I work in the Indigenous space. So I understand what it's like for those who are the real battlers in society.

Why do you insist on the insulting stereotypes? Is it really necessary?

 

[Les Malone]

I'd say that the likes of Dutton, Brandis and Abbott are far more detached from real Australia than I am.

Sure we have good jobs and we are privileged. But we're not lazy - we work for our money and we get less in wages than the equivalent private sector worker for the benefit of better conditions and job security.

Oh yeah, at the moment I work in the Indigenous space. So I understand what it's like for those who are the real battlers in society.

Why do you insist on the insulting stereotypes? Is it really necessary?

i really love how you managed to put indigenous such and such into your post, i reckon you deserve virtue signaler of the day award - well done champ


as i said... i have been in the federal public service in Canberra, its completely detached from private enterprise, really working for a living and mainstream real Australia

stop pretending otherwise, its a bludge

 

[Sydney Kicker]

i really love how you managed to put indigenous such and such into your post, i reckon you deserve virtue signaler of the day award - well done champ


as i said... i have been in the federal public service in Canberra, its completely detached from private enterprise, really working for a living and mainstream real Australia

stop pretending otherwise, its a bludge

Please cite your extensive public service experience that supports your characterization of public servants as bludgers.

And are you going to tell me what you do for a living?

 

[Monkey King]

facts have hurt you all the way through, now you seem to resort more and more to posting quotes out of context

Screenshot. Go argue with the mirror you kook.

 

[Monkey King]

Whilst higher than most flu’s, that number is still not very high and definitely not what we locked down for. The IFR for the 2017/18 flu season in the US was 0.50 which is obviously twice as bad.

There are measures of mortality beyond that of fatality risk to the individual. Estimated total deaths during the US 2017/18 flu season was 61,000 people. The covid situation hasn't even run it's course and it's already taken twice as many lives as that. So you're comparing the worst flu season in recent times and rather than being twice as bad, as you've claimed, it was actually less than half as deadly to the population, despite lockdown and social distancing measures, which if employed during flu season, would reduce flu related mortality even further.

Quick Q on ur username ... are you from NT? I had a very funny experience at Parap Markets as a young fella.

 

[Les Malone]

There are measures of mortality beyond that of fatality risk to the individual. Estimated total deaths during the US 2017/18 flu season was 61,000 people. The covid situation hasn't even run it's course and it's already taken twice as many lives as that. So you're comparing the worst flu season in recent times and rather than being twice as bad, as you've claimed, it was actually less than half as deadly to the population, despite lockdown and social distancing measures, which if employed during flu season, would reduce flu related mortality even further.

Quick Q on ur username ... are you from NT? I had a very funny experience at Parap Markets as a young fella.

your naivety runs very deep, there is so much speculation about dying with and from corona virus it is beyond a joke, it would do you well to investigate instead of believing the crap you are fed, but alas you seem incapable

Even in so-called “Covid19 deaths” it is often not clear whether they died from or with coronavirus (i.e. from underlying diseases) or if they were counted as “presumed cases” and not tested at all. However, official figures usually do not reflect this distinction.

Several nurses, e.g. in New York City, described an oftentimes fatal medical mismanagement of Covid patients due to questionable financial incentives or inappropriate medical protocols.

Not withstanding of course the sad but farcical situation in NY of sending sick patients back to aged care facilities, which you clearly know about .......

 

[JackOutback]

your naivety runs very deep, there is so much speculation about dying with and from corona virus

From the tinfoil hat brigade, maybe.

 

[samFFC]

say what!, its nothing remotely like cherry picking at all, the sources are basically endless



Overview

1. According to the latest immunological and serological studies, the overall lethality of Covid-19 (IFR) is about 0.1% and thus in the range of a strong seasonal influenza (flu).
2. In countries like the US, the UK, and also Sweden (without a lockdown), overall mortality since the beginning of the year is in the range of a strong influenza season; in countries like Germany, Austria and Switzerland, overall mortality is in the range of a mild influenza season.
3. Even in global “hotspots”, the risk of death for the general population of school and working age is typically in the range of a daily car ride to work. The risk was initially overestimated because many people with only mild or no symptoms were not taken into account.
4. Up to 80% of all test-positive persons remain symptom-free. Even among 70-79 year olds, about 60% remain symptom-free. Over 95% of all persons develop at most moderate symptoms.
5. Up to 60% of all persons may already have a certain cellular background immunity to Covid-19 due to contact with previous coronaviruses (i.e. common cold viruses). The initial assumption that there was no immunity against Covid-19 was not correct.
6. The median age of the deceased in most countries (including Italy) is over 80 years (e.g. 86 years in Sweden) and only about 4% of the deceased had no serious preconditions. The age and risk profile of deaths thus essentially corresponds to normal mortality.
7. In many countries, up to two thirds of all extra deaths occurred in nursing homes, which do not benefit from a general lockdown. Moreover, in many cases it is not clear whether these people really died from Covid19 or from weeks of extreme stress and isolation.
8. Up to 30% of all additional deaths may have been caused not by Covid19, but by the effects of the lockdown, panic and fear. For example, the treatment of heart attacks and strokes decreased by up to 60% because many patients no longer dared to go to hospital.
9. Even in so-called “Covid19 deaths” it is often not clear whether they died from or with coronavirus (i.e. from underlying diseases) or if they were counted as “presumed cases” and not tested at all. However, official figures usually do not reflect this distinction.
10. Many media reports of young and healthy people dying from Covid19 turned out to be false: many of these young people either did not die from Covid19, they had already been seriously ill (e.g. from undiagnosed leukaemia), or they were in fact 109 instead of 9 years old. The claimed increase in Kawasaki disease in children also turned out to be false.
11. Strong increases in regional mortality can occur if there is a collapse in the care of the elderly and sick as a result of infection or panic, or if there are additional risk factors such as severe air pollution. Questionable regulations for dealing with the deceased sometimes led to additional bottlenecks in funeral or cremation services.
12. In countries such as Italy and Spain, and to some extent the UK and the US, hospital overloads due to strong flu waves are not unusual. Moreover, this year up to 15% of health care workers were put into quarantine, even if they developed no symptoms.
13. The often shown exponential curves of “corona cases” are misleading, as the number of tests also increased exponentially. In most countries, the ratio of positive tests to tests overall (i.e. the positive rate) remained constant at 5% to 25% or increased only slightly. In many countries, the peak of the spread was already reached well before the lockdown.
14. Countries without curfews and contact bans, such as Japan, South Korea, Belarus or Sweden, have not experienced a more negative course of events than other countries. Sweden was even praised by the WHO and now benefits from higher immunity compared to lockdown countries.
15. The fear of a shortage of ventilators was unjustified. According to lung specialists, the invasive ventilation (intubation) of Covid19 patients, which is partly done out of fear of spreading the virus, is in fact often counterproductive and damaging to the lungs.
16. Contrary to original assumptions, various studies have shown that there is no evidence of the virus spreading through aerosols (i.e. tiny particles floating in the air) or through smear infections (e.g. on door handles or smartphones). The main modes of transmission are direct contact and droplets produced when coughing or sneezing.
17. There is also no scientific evidence for the effectiveness of face masks in healthy or asymptomatic individuals. On the contrary, experts warn that such masks interfere with normal breathing and may become “germ carriers”. Leading doctors called them a “media hype” and “ridiculous”.
18. Many clinics in Europe and the US remained strongly underutilized or almost empty during the Covid19 peak and in some cases had to send staff home. Millions of surgeries and therapies were cancelled, including many cancer screenings and organ transplants.
19. Several media were caught trying to dramatize the situation in hospitals, sometimes even with manipulative images and videos. In general, the unprofessional reporting of many media maximized fear and panic in the population.
20. The virus test kits used internationally are prone to errors and can produce false positive and false negative results. Moreover, the official virus test was not clinically validated due to time pressure and may sometimes react positive to other coronaviruses.
21. Numerous internationally renowned experts in the fields of virology, immunology and epidemiology consider the measures taken to be counterproductive and recommend rapid natural immunisation of the general population and protection of risk groups.
22. At no time was there a medical reason for the closure of schools, as the risk of disease and transmission in children is extremely low. There is also no medical reason for small classes, masks or ‘social distancing’ rules in schools.
23. The claim that only (severe) Covid-19 but not influenza may cause venous thrombosis and pulmonary (lung) embolism is not true, as it has been known for 50 years that severe influenza greatly increases the risk of thrombosis and embolism, too.
24. Several medical experts described express coronavirus vaccines as unnecessary or even dangerous. Indeed, the vaccine against the so-called swine flu of 2009, for example, led to sometimes severe neurological damage and lawsuits in the millions. In the testing of new coronavirus vaccines, too, serious complications and failures have already occurred.
25. A global influenza or corona pandemic can indeed extend over several seasons, but many studies of a “second wave” are based on very unrealistic assumptions, such as a constant risk of illness and death across all age groups.
26. Several nurses, e.g. in New York City, described an oftentimes fatal medical mismanagement of Covid patients due to questionable financial incentives or inappropriate medical protocols.
27. The number of people suffering from unemployment, depressions and domestic violence as a result of the measures has reached historic record values. Several experts predict that the measures will claim far more lives than the virus itself. According to the UN 1.6 billion people around the world are at immediate risk of losing their livelihood.
28. NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden warned that the “corona crisis” will be used for the permanent expansion of global surveillance. Renowned virologist Pablo Goldschmidt spoke of a “global media terror” and “totalitarian measures”. Leading British virologist Professor John Oxford spoke of a “media epidemic”.
29. More than 600 scientists have warned of an “unprecedented surveillance of society” through problematic apps for “contact tracing”. In some countries, such “contact tracing” is already carried out directly by the secret service. In several parts of the world, the population is already being monitored by drones and facing serious police overreach.
30. A 2019 WHO study on public health measures against pandemic influenza found that from a medical perspective, “contact tracing” is “not recommended in any circumstances”. Nevertheless, contact tracing apps have already become partially mandatory in several countries.

Facts about Covid-19

Fully referenced facts about Covid-19, provided by experts in the field, to help our readers make a realistic risk assessment.

swprs.org

Please use quotes when copying a wall of text.
Also please don’t quote from unscientific sources.

It’s extremely cherry picked.

 

[kranky al]

Victoria should consider hard lockdown: experts — The Age

Experts behind Australia’s COVID-19 strategy say Victoria should consider a lockdown of up to eight weeks or brace for continual outbreaks and last-minute changes to restrictions until a vaccine is created.

apple.news

Two of the experts behind Australia’s COVID-19 strategy say Victoria should consider a hard lockdown of up to eight weeks or brace for continual outbreaks and last-minute changes to restrictions until a vaccine is created.

 

[Les Malone]

From the tinfoil hat brigade, maybe.

LOL, from the American Government themselves





tell me more about this speculation jacky boy

 

[kranky al]

Please use quotes when copying a wall of text.
Also please don’t quote from unscientific sources.

It’s extremely cherry picked.

Welcome to les

 

[kranky al]

LOL, from the American Government themselves





tell me more about this speculation jacky boy

Almost noone dies of covid you nitwit.

they die of pneumonia, strokes, internal haemorrhage, heart attacks - all related to covid.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Almost noone dies of covid you nitwit.

they die of pneumonia, strokes, internal haemorrhage, heart attacks - all related to covid.

But we don’t count influenza deaths like that. If we counted all deaths from influenza every year where the people actually died from their pre-existing conditions and counted them as “influenza death”, the numbers would be astronomical and we could have certainly scared the crap out of the world for the 2017 flu strain that was clearly a bad one.

 

[ParapMarkets]

There are measures of mortality beyond that of fatality risk to the individual. Estimated total deaths during the US 2017/18 flu season was 61,000 people. The covid situation hasn't even run it's course and it's already taken twice as many lives as that. So you're comparing the worst flu season in recent times and rather than being twice as bad, as you've claimed, it was actually less than half as deadly to the population, despite lockdown and social distancing measures, which if employed during flu season, would reduce flu related mortality even further.

Quick Q on ur username ... are you from NT? I had a very funny experience at Parap Markets as a young fella.

Except the flu deaths were actually flu deaths. Hospitals in the US only have to “assume“ someone has COVID to declare that as the cause of death. They are also financially motivated to declare deaths as COVID.

It stands to reason that if hospitals receive more money if they declare a death as Covid rather than “heart attack” or “pneumonia” or whatever else, the numbers will be pumped up. To me that is simple logic.

 

[Forward Press]

But we don’t count influenza deaths like that. If we counted all deaths from influenza every year where the people actually died from their pre-existing conditions and counted them as “influenza death”, the numbers would be astronomical and we could have certainly scared the crap out of the world for the 2017 flu strain that was clearly a bad one.

Even in the absolute worst case scenario, the average global flu toll is 518,000

Global mortality associated with seasonal influenza epidemics: New burden estimates and predictors from the GLaMOR Project

Until recently, the World Health Organization (WHO) estimated the annual mortality burden of influenza to be 250 000 to 500 000 all-cause deaths globally; however, a 2017 study indicated a substantially higher mortality burden, at 290 000-650 000 ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I cannot find the 2017 influenza death toll as the data seems very American-centric but I'd wager it won't be that much past 518,000.

COVID-19 - undertested in many countries and yet to finish - is at 471,000 and it's not even July.

You'd be a brave person to bet on COVID-19 causing less deaths than the 2017 flu, and this is taking into account the sure thing that many many more have died without a positive test to add to the records.

 

[Forward Press]

Except the flu deaths were actually flu deaths. Hospitals in the US only have to “assume“ someone has COVID to declare that as the cause of death. They are also financially motivated to declare deaths as COVID.

It stands to reason that if hospitals receive more money if they declare a death as Covid rather than “heart attack” or “pneumonia” or whatever else, the numbers will be pumped up. To me that is simple logic.

Excess mortality during the Coronavirus pandemic (COVID-19)

Excess mortality is a term used in epidemiology and public health that refers to the number of deaths from all causes during a crisis above and beyond what we would have expected to see under ‘normal’ conditions.1 In this case, we’re interested in how the number of deaths during the COVID-19...

ourworldindata.org

The above site is an aggregate of different sites (Economist, Financial Times, EuroMomo etc) that have been tracking excess deaths.

In every single one of them, they conclude that COVID - including in the US - is being significantly underreported in overwhelmed countries simply from analysing the excess deaths figures.

The logic is not simple and is rather flawed because it presupposes that a hospital is motivated to incur financial gain from COVID when none of the statistics support that. It is merely routine practice that a hospital gets more money for patients requiring more advanced treatment, it's not a conspiracy.

 

[kranky al]

But we don’t count influenza deaths like that. If we counted all deaths from influenza every year where the people actually died from their pre-existing conditions and counted them as “influenza death”, the numbers would be astronomical and we could have certainly scared the crap out of the world for the 2017 flu strain that was clearly a bad one.

Heart attacks, strokes, internal haemorrhaging arent pre existing conditions...

 

[Les Malone]

Even in the absolute worst case scenario, the average global flu toll is 518,000

Global mortality associated with seasonal influenza epidemics: New burden estimates and predictors from the GLaMOR Project

Until recently, the World Health Organization (WHO) estimated the annual mortality burden of influenza to be 250 000 to 500 000 all-cause deaths globally; however, a 2017 study indicated a substantially higher mortality burden, at 290 000-650 000 ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I cannot find the 2017 influenza death toll as the data seems very American-centric but I'd wager it won't be that much past 518,000.

COVID-19 - undertested in many countries and yet to finish - is at 471,000 and it's not even July.

You'd be a brave person to bet on COVID-19 causing less deaths than the 2017 flu, and this is taking into account the sure thing that many many more have died without a positive test to add to the records.

have you at any point in time managed to work out what this statement means ........ everyone listed as a covid death doesn't mean that was the cause of death





or this, people to scared to go to hospital - no doubt you think they are covid deaths as well

CDC's update for Week 23, reflects 54,662 excess 2020 deaths (over 2014-2019 avg) for the Big Five fatality groups, for weeks 6 - 23.

 

[ep2018]

Players testing positive, games rescheduled/postponed, uncertainty on Travel and venues for games just over a week away, Teams in hubs, shortened season, shortened quarters, alternate home grounds, this season is getting more and more ridiculous.

Everything ive listed is all the on the fly adjustments, and we are only at round 3...

Asking the question, at what point do we not award a premiership because it’s becoming too convoluted And made up on the fly?

Even if we won it this year it would be hollow. The team who wins this yr is the team who is least affected by COVID and the hub shit. Me thinks the AFL is trying to recuperate as much $$$ as they can before canning the season.