Cotchin v Gibbs

[Hello Newman!]

Based on what? His stats don't indicate that (Murphy's first season was superior to Cotchin, as has been Palmer). He showed the odd flash of brilliance, but so have other young midfielders in the last 2-3 seasons. I liken the way Cotchin has been compared to Ablett jnr, Judd, Selwood etc, to the ill-fated comparisons of Garry Sobers, Lawrence Rowe, Viv Richards, Brian Lara & Sachin Tendulker to Don Bradman. They all showed class during their careers, but none of them have had careers that even come close to Bradman.

Some sections of the media & the 'experts' on BigFooty are so quick to proclaim young players as potential stars & more often than not finish up with egg on their faces. Cotchin has not yet done enough to warrant these comparisons. He is a good kid, who will play a lot of AFL football, but has done nothing that other first year players haven't done in the past.

I'm still waiting for someone to actually identify what it is that Cotchin did in his first season. I'm reading lots of spin, but very little substance. Specifics please.

You want to talk stats?
Murphy - 2006 (1st season)
Games - 13
Disposals - 234
Marks - 73
Goals - 8.4
Tackles - 27
Brownlow Medal votes - 2
Preseason completed - 1

Cotchin - 2008 (1st season)
Games - 15
Disposals - 246
Marks - 73
Goals - 9.5
Tackles - 32
Brownlow Medal votes - 2
Preseason completed - 0

Murphy superior to Cotchin? Their stats look pretty similar to me, mind you one having the advantage of a preseason! You want specifics, it's also interesting that we started consistently winning games almost as soon as Cotchin started appearing.

Richmond before Cotchin in 08 - 2 wins, 4 losses and 1 Draw
Richmond with Cotchin in 2008 - 9 wins, 5 losses
(also keeping in mind that we only won one game in the first month of him playing....maybe due to him finding his feet?)

 

[mediumsizered]

You want to talk stats?
Murphy - 2006 (1st season)
Games - 13
Disposals - 234
Marks - 73
Goals - 8.4
Tackles - 27
Brownlow Medal votes - 2
Preseason completed - 1

Cotchin - 2008 (1st season)
Games - 15
Disposals - 246
Marks - 73
Goals - 9.5
Tackles - 32
Brownlow Medal votes - 2
Preseason completed - 0

Murphy superior to Cotchin? Their stats look pretty similar to me, mind you one having the advantage of a preseason! You want specifics, it's also interesting that we started consistently winning games almost as soon as Cotchin started appearing.

Richmond before Cotchin in 08 - 2 wins, 4 losses and 1 Draw
Richmond with Cotchin in 2008 - 9 wins, 5 losses
(also keeping in mind that we only won one game in the first month of him playing....maybe due to him finding his feet?)

Round 1, Richmond without Cotchin defeat Carlton. Round 14, Richmond with Cotchin defeated by Carlton. See, we can turn this around to suit each other's argument.

On the stats, it is interesting to note that Cotchin had only 12 more disposals than Murphy despite playing 2 more games (& that is not factoring in that Murphy only played the 1st quarter of his 13th game due to suffering a shoulder injury, having come off consecutive weeks of 26 & 25 disposals). Murphy also took the same number of marks. This hardly tells us that Cotchin is the next Judd or Gary Ablett jnr, but an impressive young player like Murphy, Gibbs, Selwood, Palmer etc.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Round 1, Richmond without Cotchin defeat Carlton. Round 14, Richmond with Cotchin defeated by Carlton. See, we can turn this around to suit each other's argument.

On the stats, it is interesting to note that Cotchin had only 12 more disposals than Murphy despite playing 2 more games (& that is not factoring in that Murphy only played the 1st quarter of his 13th game due to suffering a shoulder injury, having come off consecutive weeks of 26 & 25 disposals). Murphy also took the same number of marks. This hardly tells us that Cotchin is the next Judd or Gary Ablett jnr, but an impressive young player like Murphy, Gibbs, Selwood, Palmer etc.

Since when is beating Carlton the key to success?

Cotchin is just a better player than murphy, i've explained how, with the better skills and so on. Just because two players have a comparable first year doesn't mean they are comparable players.

 

[Rosstickle]

So he is going to be better than Judd & Ablett jnr, based on one passage of play? Go back & watch some of the things Murphy did in his first season, like his 26 possession game while being tagged by Stenglein, in our narrow loss to the Eagles. Or the following week against the Kangaroos, when he picked up 25 disposals (& 2 Brownlow votes) while being tagged separately by both Rawlings & Firrito.

I'm not denying Cotchin will be a very good player, but the hype at the moment is just over the top. As I have stated previously, what he achieved this season, has been achieved, & exceeded, by other young midfielders in recent seasons. He has done nothing specifically that tells us he is going to be better than Judd, Ablett jnr, Selwood, Murphy, Gibbs, Palmer etc, as some would have us believe.

Here's another passage of play you might enjoy. You'll have to wait until 1:18 to see it though.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha9l1L3LIBo

 

[Thecho]

Round 1, Richmond without Cotchin defeat Carlton. Round 14, Richmond with Cotchin defeated by Carlton. See, we can turn this around to suit each other's argument.

On the stats, it is interesting to note that Cotchin had only 12 more disposals than Murphy despite playing 2 more games (& that is not factoring in that Murphy only played the 1st quarter of his 13th game due to suffering a shoulder injury, having come off consecutive weeks of 26 & 25 disposals). Murphy also took the same number of marks. This hardly tells us that Cotchin is the next Judd or Gary Ablett jnr, but an impressive young player like Murphy, Gibbs, Selwood, Palmer etc.

The stats are similar but what most people outside of Richmond dont know is that because of Cotchin's lack of fitness he wasn't given much game time. IIRC it might have been 50-60% of the game at most.

I'd also like to point out that the hype is not so much what Cotchin has done but what he has shown (quoted from someone else)

 

[Top_4_Tiger]

I'm still waiting for someone to actually identify what it is that Cotchin did in his first season. I'm reading lots of spin, but very little substance. Specifics please.

Geez, you don't think Cotchin much anything in his first season?

Everytime he touched the frieken ball a little slice of magic occurred.

You can't explain this through stats or comparisons. You just have to watch him and see what he does with the ball. I have no hesitation in claiming that Trent Cotchin will be as good as Chris Judd (just like what the Richmond coaches said).

Only a moron would argue that Murphy is as good as Cotchin.

He is so far ahead of Murphy it is a joke to suggest otherwise, and that isn't even disrespectful to Marc.

 

[mediumsizered]

Geez, you don't think Cotchin much anything in his first season?

Everytime he touched the frieken ball a little slice of magic occurred.

You can't explain this through stats or comparisons. You just have to watch him and see what he does with the ball. I have no hesitation in claiming that Trent Cotchin will be as good as Chris Judd (just like what the Richmond coaches said).

Only a moron would argue that Murphy is as good as Cotchin.

He is so far ahead of Murphy it is a joke to suggest otherwise, and that isn't even disrespectful to Marc.

This is what I am talking about. The kid is good, no doubt about that, but to make this statement is just absolute rubbish. How can you be sure he will be as good as Judd? How many people actually thought Judd was going to be as good as he is? Cotchin's first season was very good, but not the best of the young players currently running around.

I could say that Gibbs is going to be as good as Bradley & Williams combined, but I don't know for sure what is going to happen in his career & nor can anyone be sure about Cotchin. Suffice to say that Cotchin is a very good young kid (one of many currently running around in the AFL) & will at be as good as Cotchin.

I will note your prediction for future reference though, & if Cotchin hasn't won a Brownlow Medal, Norm Smith Medal, AFLPA MVP award, AA x 2, club B&F x 2 & captained a premiership side by the time he is 23, I will be bumping your post.

 

[TigerGlory]

How can you be sure he will be as good as Judd?

As much as it pains me to say it, i have to agree.

Theres been far to much of this garbage from both Tigers supporters, as well as others.

Can we please let the Cotch evolve into himself? And not every single other superstar that has played the game.

At this rate, If Cotchin won the Brownlow, the Coleman, the Rising Star, the Norm Smith and somehow, the EJ Whitten Medal, it would be touted as a disappointing season because he didnt live up to the hype!

 

[mediumsizered]

As much as it pains me to say it, i have to agree.

Theres been far to much of this garbage from both Tigers supporters, as well as others.

Can we please let the Cotch evolve into himself? And not every single other superstar that has played the game.
At this rate, If Cotchin won the Brownlow, the Coleman, the Rising Star, the Norm Smith and somehow, the EJ Whitten Medal, it would be touted as a disappointing season because he didnt live up to the hype!

This is exactly right. Cotchin is an extremely talented player, who I would have been just as happy to draft as I was with Kreuzer. Both are good kids, with great attitudes. Supporters should just sit back & enjoy the ride with Cotchin, Kreuzer, Gibbs, Murphy, Deledio etc instead of comparing them to current, or previous stars of the game.

 

[incog43]

Gibbs has been getting a football education the last 2 years, think we will see some payback next year

Cotch still getting his, tiger fans will see more next year but look forward to 2010 and 2011

Both will be guns. (please injury gods leave them be)

Would have Cotch in a heartbeat.
Would have Gibbs in a heartbeat.

Poll should have been called about 2010.

 

[Top_4_Tiger]

This is what I am talking about. The kid is good, no doubt about that, but to make this statement is just absolute rubbish.

I'm just repeating what most football experts have been saying in the media, hardly ground-breaking stuff.

Can we please let the Cotch evolve into himself?

I don't see how what I am typing is holding him back? I have that much power over his career?

The Cotch, like Judd, doesn't read newspapers and doesn't get ahead of himself.

In the end, isn't that what matters?



It seems Carlton supporters don't want to hear about it. Now why would that be...

 

[Hodgepodge]

Cotchin isn't to be compared to the Bryce Gibbs of this world, more the Joel Selwoods or Gary Ablett Jrs.

 

[cheezey2008]

Cotchin isn't to be compared to the Bryce Gibbs of this world, more the Joel Selwoods or Gary Ablett Jrs.

Also, Hodgepodge needs to develop his knowledge of the game of AFL football, judging by statements like these.

 

[incog43]

Cotchin isn't to be compared to the Bryce Gibbs of this world, more the Joel Selwoods or Gary Ablett Jrs.

Mate after reading some of your posts, I think the above comment is spot on, after all, its clear you live in your "own world" - whats the weather like there today?

 

[cheezey2008]

Hodgepodge seems to think he actually has an understanding of our great game...someone needs to give him serious help.

All of his threads and posts are full of nonsensical, false tripe that he seems to believe.

 

[archiemoses]

gibbs is probably quicker, i doubt cotchin can run 20m in 2.92 sec as gibbs did this summer.

cotchin does not have a bigger engine, how can he when he hasn't even hada pre-season yet and gibbs has had 2.

both are very skilful however i think gibbs is mroe skilful as he has that added ability to kick 60m bullets that cotchin will never have.

gibbs is also harder at the ball. in a pack situation, gibbs is extremely hard at the ball and constanstly leaves his body open to be smashed. just because of one incident against milne where he copped a bad bounce and went to his knees too early but never veen took his eyes off the ball bf warriors have branded him a wimp, which he isn't. the fact that he wins so much of his possessions contested is another point.

gibbs is also more versatile. has a much much better defensive side. has a far superior football brain. is great at clearances. is great around goals. is the best tackler at carlton and the best exponent of the smother in the comp. does one-percenters as good as anyone. cotchin is the most overhyped player of the 21st century. he will be a gun who will average 25 disposals a game and will use the ball really well but but will not have much else to hang his hat on. mark my words, gibbs will one day be the best player in the comp.

The most bias view I have seen. I feel stupider for having read this post. You carlton supporters make me laugh. You rate your players so much.

From a neutral perspective; Cotchin is a better player.

 

[kreuze control]

The most bias view I have seen. I feel stupider for having read this post. You carlton supporters make me laugh. You rate your players so much.

From a neutral perspective; Cotchin is a better player.

i just had a read of that and i agree with the raw facts that are written in there. what part do you not agree with so we can discuss it?


and i would say (bear in mind it's only my opinion) that having a neutral perspective is an indication that you do not take as much interest in this topic as non-neutral supporters would, therefore you are not as qualified as a non-neutral person to make an assessment.

 

[cormick]

The most bias view I have seen. I feel stupider for having read this post. You carlton supporters make me laugh. You rate your players so much.

From a neutral perspective; Cotchin is a better player.

How can you still think Cotchin is better after reading such a glowing, and truthful, review of Gibbs?

 

[cormick]

i just had a read of that and i agree with the raw facts that are written in there. what part do you not agree with so we can discuss it?


and i would say (bear in mind it's only my opinion) that having a neutral perspective is an indication that you do not take as much interest in this topic as non-neutral supporters would, therefore you are not as qualified as a non-neutral person to make an assessment.

Or, alternatively, he sees equal amounts of both, and is therefore in a better position to pass judgement...

 

[paul23]

atm gibbs but in 1-2 years cotchin will be ahead of him and have a brownlow in the bag

agreed, maybe 3 years for the brownlow

 

[THEBLOODS85]

This is what I am talking about. The kid is good, no doubt about that, but to make this statement is just absolute rubbish. How can you be sure he will be as good as Judd? How many people actually thought Judd was going to be as good as he is? Cotchin's first season was very good, but not the best of the young players currently running around.

I could say that Gibbs is going to be as good as Bradley & Williams combined, but I don't know for sure what is going to happen in his career & nor can anyone be sure about Cotchin. Suffice to say that Cotchin is a very good young kid (one of many currently running around in the AFL) & will at be as good as Cotchin.

I will note your prediction for future reference though, & if Cotchin hasn't won a Brownlow Medal, Norm Smith Medal, AFLPA MVP award, AA x 2, club B&F x 2 & captained a premiership side by the time he is 23, I will be bumping your post.

How the hell is he gunna win a Norm Smith Medal finishing 9th every year?

 

[Hodgepodge]

gibbs is probably quicker, i doubt cotchin can run 20m in 2.92 sec as gibbs did this summer.

gibbs is also harder at the ball. in a pack situation, gibbs is extremely hard at the ball and constanstly leaves his body open to be smashed.

These are the two funniest statements from your post. My question is, do you actually believe this shit?

 

[Top_4_Tiger]

How the hell is he gunna win a Norm Smith Medal finishing 9th every year?

Oh yeah, that's right.

Because Richmond finish 9th.

Don't worry, I get it.

 

[richskee]

Gibbs really did improve but Cotchins first year was as good as Gibbs year.

Gotta go the Cotch

 

[THE_GUN]

gibbs is probably quicker, i doubt cotchin can run 20m in 2.92 sec as gibbs did this summer.

cotchin does not have a bigger engine, how can he when he hasn't even hada pre-season yet and gibbs has had 2

gibbs is also harder at the ball. in a pack situation, gibbs is extremely hard at the ball and constanstly leaves his body open to be smashed.

ok point 1. the time of 2.92 sec who was it timed by , if its the carlton football club. dont believe it they cheat.

point 2.gibbs has not show anything to prove that he is hard in packs or anything els, the opposit has been the case.

cotchin is a playmaker , & gibbs is the player that will try and stop him from doing this also known as '' tagger ''