Covid 19 (OPEN DISCUSSION)

[Balls In]

Well almost all of what you've said here is wrong. The first confirmed Covid case in the US was 4 days before the first confirmed Covid case in Australia. Covid was pretty well established in US communities in February and March, which was the same time that cases were starting to rise sharply in Australia. The difference is that the US generally didn't do that much to bring things under control whereas Australia implemented lockdowns and closed international borders, and essentially eradicated the virus. Also, more Americans died from Covid in 2021 than in 2020, despite vaccinations being widely available across the US from very early in 2021.

As for your statement about Omicron, that only holds true for people who are vaccinated, which as has been well covered in this thread is something that you do not want to put any pressure on people to do.

I'm not going down the US rabbit hole. Don't care. South Australia would be about the best test case for us.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

“The US has had 73 million cases and 878,000 deaths so we should probably just ignore it”

 

[Balls In]

“The US has had 73 million cases and 878,000 deaths so we should probably just ignore it”

The US was never comparable. They had community spread from the get go and case loads peaking before they had a vaccine (and while their vaccine rates were extremely low). Australia is pretty much unique in the world being largely Covid free until we hit around 80% vax rate and that coincides with the emergence of Omicron, which is much milder than the earlier versions.

 

[amazingjoshy]

Comparing the US (as a whole country) in 2020/21 to our current situation in WA right now is pretty disingenuous at best, I'd have thought

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Comparing the US (as a whole country) in 2020/21 to our current situation in WA right now is pretty disingenuous at best, I'd have thought

Depends what you’re comparing.

If you’re talking about the way in which Omicron is spreading, affecting people and killing people, it’s a little bit disingenuous to disregard a country with high numbers of cases and deaths. That’s a big data subset you’re ignoring.

 

[Ilkka Sinisalo]

The US was never comparable. They had community spread from the get go and case loads peaking before they had a vaccine (and while their vaccine rates were extremely low). Australia is pretty much unique in the world being largely Covid free until we hit around 80% vax rate and that coincides with the emergence of Omicron, which is much milder than the earlier versions.

Australia was experiencing community spread at almost the same time as the US; the difference was that the US president and his party preferred to pretend that nothing bad was happening or it would go away on its own, whereas Australia basically closed the borders and locked down for 2-3 months to make the virus go away. Nearly 300,000 people have died of Covid since May 2021 (vaccines were widely available from January or February 2021). So many people have died because the vaccination rate shot up in the first half of the year and then plateaued, because most US states have a policy of "Hey, don't want to get vaccinated? Fine by us! Keep heading in to the office, go out to dinner or the bar, hop on a plane and travel across the country - we would hate to inconvenience you in any way!"

I can see why you prefer to avoid discussion about the US, though, since the US outcome of mass death, illness, economic strife and health systems under enormous pressure is the inevitable outcome from most of the things that you have been arguing for in this thread.

 

[Ilkka Sinisalo]

Comparing the US (as a whole country) in 2020/21 to our current situation in WA right now is pretty disingenuous at best, I'd have thought

Somebody brought up the fact that the average age of people dying from Covid is 84, as an argument that Covid is really only dangerous to very old people who already had health issues. This is disingenuous because, as seen in countries that have lower vaccination rates and have been less aggressive to lock down during the pandemic, Covid has taken out plenty of middle-aged people. The average age in Australia is much higher because the country has done a good job of limiting community spread and getting people vaccinated before case numbers really escalated. Even in the Melbourne outbreaks last in 2020 and Sydney last year, new daily cases peaked at about 700-2000 per day, as opposed to 50,000 to 100,000 since early to mid December.

 

[amazingjoshy]

Somebody brought up the fact that the average age of people dying from Covid is 84, as an argument that Covid is really only dangerous to very old people who already had health issues. This is disingenuous because, as seen in countries that have lower vaccination rates and have been less aggressive to lock down during the pandemic, Covid has taken out plenty of middle-aged people. The average age in Australia is much higher because the country has done a good job of limiting community spread and getting people vaccinated before case numbers really escalated. Even in the Melbourne outbreaks last in 2020 and Sydney last year, new daily cases peaked at about 700-2000 per day, as opposed to 50,000 to 100,000 since early to mid December.

But we don't have low vaccination rates so why even bring it up?

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Because of who he is arguing with:

I can see why you prefer to avoid discussion about the US, though, since the US outcome of mass death, illness, economic strife and health systems under enormous pressure is the inevitable outcome from most of the things that you have been arguing for in this thread.

 

[ziad]

“The US has had 73 million cases and 878,000 deaths so we should probably just ignore it”

60m died of the Spanish flu in 1918-19. But we are inteligent enough to move on and lead good lives.

 

[amazingjoshy]

Latest announcement is a move in the right direction. Slowly starting to join reality.

Be nice to know what a high caseload is defined as though

 

[amazingjoshy]

Depends what you’re comparing.

If you’re talking about the way in which Omicron is spreading, affecting people and killing people, it’s a little bit disingenuous to disregard a country with high numbers of cases and deaths. That’s a big data subset you’re ignoring.

Thought I was pretty specific in my post

 

[bzparkes]

A top cardiologist has revealed the true risk of developing heart inflammation from a Covid vaccine

One of Australia’s top cardiologists has dispelled a common misconception about the link between Covid vaccinations and myocarditis - inflammation of the heart muscle.

www.news.com.au

Yes, yes it's from News.com.au however the interview itself was on ABC radio and I found this particular part interesting:

“The really important issue here is that if you developed myocarditis after a vaccine, were you to have seen this protein from Covid itself, it could have killed you.

“It could have been lethal at the doses of virus and spike protein generated by the infection.”

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Latest announcement is a move in the right direction. Slowly starting to join reality.

Be nice to know what a high caseload is defined as though

Just read the announcement and that was my exact reaction.

I understand why they have to be cagey about some details - to be flexible and avoid (more) accusations of backflipping - but man it’s annoying.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Union wants ALL West Aussies to work from home

Australian Nursing Federation WA secretary Mark Olson has pleaded with the State Government to put in place ‘fairly sensible and not that severe restrictions’ to stem the transmission of Omicron.

www.perthnow.com.au

 

[amazingjoshy]

New Omicron modelling predicts WA's outbreak will peak at 430 people in hospital - ABC listen

Professor George Milne at UWA has previously modelled Delta hospitalisations for WA, and has now turned his attention to Omicron - and his results suggest WA shouldn't delay its border reopening for much longer.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Forward Press]

A top cardiologist has revealed the true risk of developing heart inflammation from a Covid vaccine

One of Australia’s top cardiologists has dispelled a common misconception about the link between Covid vaccinations and myocarditis - inflammation of the heart muscle.

www.news.com.au

Yes, yes it's from News.com.au however the interview itself was on ABC radio and I found this particular part interesting:

“The really important issue here is that if you developed myocarditis after a vaccine, were you to have seen this protein from Covid itself, it could have killed you.

“It could have been lethal at the doses of virus and spike protein generated by the infection.”

It has been well proven (unless you're one of those...) that COVID is far more likely to give you myocarditis than vaccination.

Yet some people will use myocarditis as an excuse to not get vaccinated...

 

[Matera92]

Gotta wonder what these people would have been like during wartime.

“fu** this, I’m sick of staying home every night and blacking out all the windows. It’s been two years, we’ve got to go back to normal eventually. This is greatly inconveniencing me, and the bombs aren’t that likely to hit me anyway.”

This pandemic has brought out the self entitled flogs in their droves.

They are fortunate they live in first world countries with excellent infrastructure that allows them to be the absolute oxygen thieves that they are.

 

[amazingjoshy]

Even funnier are the folks that think this is anything like wartime and that they are heroes for staying at home

 

[Forward Press]

Even funnier are the folks that think this is anything like wartime and that they are heroes for staying at home

More the idea that concepts of sacrifice and doing the right thing for others have been mocked instead of admired - just like what you did. Hence the 'self entitled flog' label - which I hope you are not.

 

[Scotland]

“The US has had 73 million cases and 878,000 deaths so we should probably just ignore it”

So 73m/330m people have had it so far, 22% of the population. 878k/73m died, 1.2% fatality rate.

Pro rata that's 5.7m cases and 68,000 deaths. We're actually at 2.5m cases and 3,500 deaths, so a bit under 10% of the population have had it and 0.14% of those have died.

Is the US fatality rate really 10x what ours is? Please tell me my maths is wrong.

 

[amazingjoshy]

More the idea that concepts of sacrifice and doing the right thing for others have been mocked instead of admired - just like what you did. Hence the 'self entitled flog' label - which I hope you are not.

 

[Ishmael_]

Even funnier are the folks that think this is anything like wartime and that they are heroes for staying at home

And then chortle at those who make similarly spurious analogues to 1930s Germany.

The level of cognitive dissonance is remarkable.

 

[Forward Press]

So 73m/330m people have had it so far, 22% of the population. 878k/73m died, 1.2% fatality rate.

Pro rata that's 5.7m cases and 68,000 deaths. We're actually at 2.5m cases and 3,500 deaths, so a bit under 10% of the population have had it and 0.14% of those have died.

Is the US fatality rate really 10x what ours is? Please tell me my maths is wrong.

• Less restrictions (eg less ability to control interstate and international travel, less strict mask mandates, less and more lenient lockdowns)
• Lower vaccination rates
• More overwhelmed health systems
• Philosophically they are all about 'muh freedom' and a high emphasis on individual rights and personal freedom

Either way the US should not be used as a model for the ideal COVID response.

 

[Scotland]

More the idea that concepts of sacrifice and doing the right thing for others have been mocked instead of admired - just like what you did. Hence the 'self entitled flog' label - which I hope you are not.

Most people have actually done SFA that they weren't effectively forced to.

Omicron is 'out in the community' in WA. Turn off the mask mandate tomorrow and see how many people still wear them...