Cox Plate

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CranktheAnchors said:
They are not talking about SYT its irrelevant what its won.

They are talking about whether WBGY is a good horse or not. Its won 2.6million and i believe it still hasn't shown its best.

Don't think it will win Saturday but as for saying it is "stupidely overrated" well that's just stupid in itself...
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No its not. WBGY is a very good horse but still overrated. What races has he won? Dont want to know about prize money. Black Piranha has done more than WBGY but WBGY is hyped up 10x more than him
 

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ECHUCABOY said:
Just decide to pop up on here around spring racing time do you???

SYT has beaten the best of a fairly average bunch so far...The Cox Plate field is getting up there but still no where near a peak field. "If" it wins on the weekend, that will be great and a back to back Cox Plate winner is awesome, "if" it wins the Cup it is a very special horse....And maybe then a Champion..

DO you think more people will tune in or go to the Melbourne Cup to see So You Think in action? No probably not, this is why I think the whole, he's the champion that racing needs crap is over rated and exaggerated..

And yeah I own a horse and am involved in the industry.....so does that make me an expert? I wouldn't reckon
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I disagree - if he wins on Saturday he will definatley increase the number of people they get on Cup day to achieve what would be unthinkable - two cox plates and a Melbourne Cup victory in less than a dozen starts.

And if you think that won't draw people to the track on Cup day then racing is dead.
 
WeninRome said:
how's it bullshit? what has wbgu done exactly?
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How about winning 6 Group/Listed Races (4 Group 2's - 2 Group 1's)

He is a 1600m specialist, his owners want bigger fish so they push him further but they like the owners of Typhoon Tracy want a big win so they push their horses beyond their prime.

Whobe's record over 1600m is 3-0-1 (2 Group 2 wins and a Group 1 win + 3rd). As is the risk with all back markers if the pace isn't on or the field is big its easy to lose a race even when your the best horse in it, it only takes being boxed in or a slow tempo and its race over. You can never back this horse with confidence.

Tracy on the other hand is the best Mare over 1400-1600m in the country, if she stuck to Mares races over those distances she would never lose. The reason why these people don't do this is because they are rich idiots and are just after the big trophies now.

WeninRome said:
I asked you if that was your quaddie...


http://www.racenet.com.au/news/638/63882.asp

More Joyous out gallops So You Think
Clinton Payne
Tuesday, 19 October 2010


A regular track watcher has declared More Joyous as the star Cox Plate track worker at Flemington on Tuesday.

Both More Joyous and So You Think steered clear of Moonee Valley’s Breakfast with the Best trackwork session to complete their final main gallop at their Flemington base ahead of Saturday’s $3 million weight-for-age championship.

Regular Flemington clocker Warren Huntly was at Moonee Valley but Racenet has tracked down another regular trackman who said More Joyous’s gallop was “textbook stuff”.

“She worked over six [furlongs – 1200m] in 1.22.00 and ran her last 400 metres in 22.90 seconds,” he said. “It was outstanding work, she went whoosh.

“If it’s a sit and sprint on Saturday I think she could beat the good horse [So You Think].”

So You Think was also clocked for the final 1200 metres of his gallop which was run in 1.20.00 and he came home his final 400 metres in 24 seconds.

“He worked as well as he always seems to do,” he said. “It’s just the mare was stunning.”
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You do realise that a horse runs about 16.6m per second right? So even after her faster split time for the last 400m she was still over 33m behind him which makes her 50m back after the 1st 800m.

Regardless those times are simply jogging times and totally irrelevant, a fast 1200m time is in the 1min 9 second area. What those times tell you is More Joyous was worked home over the last 400m while So You Think was just out there for a jog, you don't burn your horse out 4 days before the biggest race of the year for them.

Regardless she won't make up 4 lengths on him in the last 400m at MV, its uphill to the turn and with 173m to go after the turn he will put on the after burners and say goodnight.
 
ECHUCABOY said:
It's beaten All American....:p
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Did you even see that race!? OMG what a dumb comment.

That 2nd from SYT was one of his best runs and one of the best 2nds ive ever seen.

He sweated up pre race.
Over raced and pulled hard in the run.
Was pressured in front all race.
Speed was absolutely hectic.
He still kicked 3 lengths clear at the top of straight and was only run downlate up the long flemngton sraight by AA who had the cold sit and pulled out his highest rated race ever to win. SYT still beat everything else easy.

You have no clue.
 
ECHUCABOY said:
Just decide to pop up on here around spring racing time do you???

SYT has beaten the best of a fairly average bunch so far...The Cox Plate field is getting up there but still no where near a peak field. "If" it wins on the weekend, that will be great and a back to back Cox Plate winner is awesome, "if" it wins the Cup it is a very special horse....And maybe then a Champion..

DO you think more people will tune in or go to the Melbourne Cup to see So You Think in action? No probably not, this is why I think the whole, he's the champion that racing needs crap is over rated and exaggerated..

And yeah I own a horse and am involved in the industry.....so does that make me an expert? I wouldn't reckon
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I didn't realise this board exists until the other day.

You are a complete and utter moron if you think the horses So You Think have beaten are "Average"

Typhoon Tracy is the best Mare in Australia, she didn't win racehorse of the year because she is a average horse, she has won 5 Group 1's ffs. Added to that she is a 1400-1600m horse not the 2040m Cox Plate star they are trying to make her into and So You Think's win over her in the 1400m Memsie Stakes was impressive.

Whobegotyou has won 6 group races 2 of them being Group 1's, as for your comment about him not doing well in small fields I should point out to you that 5 of his 6 group wins have been in fields 10 >.

Shoot Out is the AJC Derby winner from last year, a race in which he beat a certain horse that may or may not have won the Caulfield Cup last week. He hasn't exactly come back worse for ware winning 2 group races and placing in 3 others in his 5 runs since, he has only ever missed the placings in a group race twice once of which was a 4th in a lazy 13 attempts.

Shocking is well I shouldn't have to tell you what he is, regardless he was given a bath by So You Think and has since been unlucky not to have both the Turnbull Stakes & Caulfield Cup victories to his name.

If you don't deem these 4 horses as quality then what do you rate? More Joyous has done nothing to suggest shes going to run out 2040m, the 1600m times she has been running are a 50m arc away from anything near a super horse's time over this distance. She even ran away from facing Typhoon Tracy in the Autumn to avoid her winning streak being broken.

That leaves Wall Street, in his one journey to Australia he finished a distant 11th in the Doncaster so as to avoid the same mistake the trainer has kept the same routine of leaving 3-4 weeks between runs and expecting the best out of his horse straight away. His only chance is a wet track.

Honestly I don't care if more people tune into the Melbourne cup. Derby and Oaks days have bigger public participation, Melbourne Cup day is for the racing fans not the knob jockeys who want to dress up and act like its a social event.
 
davis_756 said:
How about winning 6 Group/Listed Races (4 Group 2's - 2 Group 1's)

He is a 1600m specialist, his owners want bigger fish so they push him further but they like the owners of Typhoon Tracy want a big win so they push their horses beyond their prime.

Whobe's record over 1600m is 3-0-1 (2 Group 2 wins and a Group 1 win + 3rd). As is the risk with all back markers if the pace isn't on or the field is big its easy to lose a race even when your the best horse in it, it only takes being boxed in or a slow tempo and its race over. You can never back this horse with confidence.

Tracy on the other hand is the best Mare over 1400-1600m in the country, if she stuck to Mares races over those distances she would never lose. The reason why these people don't do this is because they are rich idiots and are just after the big trophies now.



You do realise that a horse runs about 16.6m per second right? So even after her faster split time for the last 400m she was still over 33m behind him which makes her 50m back after the 1st 800m.

Regardless those times are simply jogging times and totally irrelevant, a fast 1200m time is in the 1min 9 second area. What those times tell you is More Joyous was worked home over the last 400m while So You Think was just out there for a jog, you don't burn your horse out 4 days before the biggest race of the year for them.

Regardless she won't make up 4 lengths on him in the last 400m at MV, its uphill to the turn and with 173m to go after the turn he will put on the after burners and say goodnight.
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I agree, just posting something I read today.
 
The_Doctor said:
Did you even see that race!? OMG what a dumb comment.

That 2nd from SYT was one of his best runs and one of the best 2nds ive ever seen.

He sweated up pre race.
Over raced and pulled hard in the run.
Was pressured in front all race.
Speed was absolutely hectic.
He still kicked 3 lengths clear at the top of straight and was only run downlate up the long flemngton sraight by AA who had the cold sit and pulled out his highest rated race ever to win. SYT still beat everything else easy.

You have no clue.
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woosh, I think that was a bit of sarcasm bro...
 
ECHUCABOY said:
Why does the sport need a champion.....it's not in crisis....I'm really dead set against SYT.

Last start Alcopop made good ground on it and failed in the cup Whobe was ridden 'upside down' and was never going to threaten it in a small field.

It bet a fairly crap field in the cox plate last year and couldnt beat All American the week after....

It has then beaten whobe by half a length first up, didnt beat a heap the next start and then had it all its own way last start...

Look its an awesome horse, but its hardly a champion. The media in the country love putting horses on a pedestal....Typhoon Tracey, Weekend Hussler, Miss Finland.....where are they now.

The only one the failed to give credit to was Starspangledbanner, for some ridiculous reason and it kept going out and winning at big odds.

This week he has to take on arguably the best mare in the land, NZ's best by a long, long way, three proven Group Performers in Zipping, Whobe and Shoot out......

It is massively under the odds and I hope all the muppet, spring experts out there loose there life savings on SYT on the weekend...

I'm under no illusions it should be favourite, but it has clearly been blown out of proportion.

Happy to eat my words come Saturday.....I'm hoping for a ripper race.

FWIW I've been on Wall Street its last two and he is a super impressive animal...I like the NZ form. It compares with the Qld Form...there horses are constantly racing in big fields were the pressure is on and it is good prepartion for these high pressure Group 1's;)
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You have absolutely no idea. This horse hasnt just been winning, it has been streeting anything and everything. By far the best horse in the country and probably the best in the world.

Alcopop made good ground? what when they eased so you think up to win by just 4?
 

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ECHUCABOY said:
It bet a fairly crap field in the cox plate last year and couldnt beat All American the week after....
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I thought I'd highlight this section of your post to explain a few things.

- So You Think is a stayer, he has had 4 starts over 1600m for 4 wins.

- 2 of the 3 times in his career that he has lost he has stepped back in distance to chase prize money, the 3rd time he was 1st up which generally is the worst run for any stayer.

- Last year's cup race he lead all the way and ran faster then either of Sunline's wins and we all know what a champion horse she was.

Basically the loss to All American was because he is a stayer and he went back to a middle distance race after his prime run and the field in the last years cox plate would have ended up 4-5 lengths ahead of Sunline so its hard to really call it bad.
 
Hope people dont write off MJ cos shes with Gai and is a mare

She has won 8 in a row! seems to be lost in the SYT hype but jeez its impressive

Will take an amazing animal to just beat her

Her Toorak win with 58 was under rated

SYT, MJ, Hay List, Black Caviar & Shocking are the best 5 horses going around that I can remember. Cant wait for their clashes in coming weeks.
 
Totally agree Crank...It's hard to get your point across when it's not an actual conversation...

I completley agree with Lockyer in that respect as well.

All American was a muck around comment...just being stupid, hence the :p

Davis completley understand what your saying, but I really do think this crop of horses isnt as good, as say when Fields Of Omagh, Makybe, El Segundo, Big Mal etc going around....

This race gets to that standard and if SYT blows them away...I'll be the first to say how good he is, I'm not potting him exactly. I just think he hasn't quite been tested. But in a high pressure race like this and a field like this, this is where champions are made.

Anyway SYT is a gun, beautiful bloody horse. I love watchng it in action and I suppose when you try and compare horses to years gone by or class levels gone by it is never going to work.

I personally think after 9 starts he isnt a Champ just yet and that the media overact a little..If it goes on to win the Melbourne Cup it will be an unbelievable effort.

And probably the main reason my argument is weighted this way is because I am the ultimate optimist and I love the underdog...
 
CranktheAnchors said:
Its probably one of the best threads i've read for a while. Its great debate without anyone getting into name calling. Its these type comments that eventually turn the thread to crap...
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yes your right comments like yours will turn this thread to crap.:rolleyes:
I'm all for a debate I was more so having a go at the posters saying "you have no idea" " your a moron" when some one doesn't agree with what they think..

Anywho carry on...
 
Lockyer24 said:
Hope people dont write off MJ cos shes with Gai and is a mare

She has won 8 in a row! seems to be lost in the SYT hype but jeez its impressive

Will take an amazing animal to just beat her

Her Toorak win with 58 was under rated

SYT, MJ, Hay List, Black Caviar & Shocking are the best 5 horses going around that I can remember. Cant wait for their clashes in coming weeks.
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Throw Typhoon Tracey into that as well. reigning horse of the year, several group 1 wins, its an amazing horse. I think Moody got a little greedy trying ot prepare it for the big races like the cox when its purely a 1600m runner..
 
completly agree on Typhoon Tracey let her get back to what she does best, had she been wound up and moody not trying to stretch her out to 2000m she probly would have a few more wins this prep. On the plate does anyone else think whobe is crazy odds at around 15s, SYT is obviously a gun but no featherweight like last year and i dont think he will get it all his way + not really keen on the 1.55 after some more value. Looking back through his record the only race at the valley he hasnt won (in 6 starts i believe) was last years plate, got back no pace and finished off ok just outside the placings..?
 
ECHUCABOY said:
This race gets to that standard and if SYT blows them away...I'll be the first to say how good he is, I'm not potting him exactly. I just think he hasn't quite been tested. But in a high pressure race like this and a field like this, this is where champions are made.
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I see what you are trying to say but I think that is an interesting claim given he has already blown away a similar field to this last year...as a 3yo at just his 5th start!

Obviously More Joyous and Shoot Out are quality additions this year but Shoot Out was beaten by Zipping last start who was in the field last year.

So apart from beating More Joyous I can't see how a dominant win this year can be viewed as vastly superior to the performance he put up last year.
 

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