Cricket Discussion - Part 2

[raptalia]

Meanwhile Mr do nothing Marsh survives.

I do not have a problem with Kostas in for McSweeney but I would have given Beau Webster a shot at it.

 

[raptalia]

I cannot understand why some of the media are so shocked about Nathan McSweeney being axed. McSweeney didn't really fire, in three Tests he amassed 72 runs at 14.40 with a top score of 39. His replacement Sam Kontas has not played a lot of first class cricket but who else is there? The more experienced candidates are either horribly out of form or have not done much better than McSweeney. Sam Kontas is a risk but at the moment Australian cricket doesn't really have any alternatives.

At the end of last season Australia had three quality batsmen in Warner, Khawaja and Smith on the verge of retirement and there are no alternatives. What is more there is no way of knowing if the replacements are there as the Shield season is once again suspended while this who cares BBL shit is played.

 

[philreich]

I cannot understand why some of the media are so shocked about Nathan McSweeney being axed. McSweeney didn't really fire, in three Tests he amassed 72 runs at 14.40 with a top score of 39. His replacement Sam Kontas has not played a lot of first class cricket but who else is there? The more experienced candidates are either horribly out of form or have not done much better than McSweeney. Sam Kontas is a risk but at the moment Australian cricket doesn't really have any alternatives.

At the end of last season Australia had three quality batsmen in Warner, Khawaja and Smith on the verge of retirement and there are no alternatives. What is more there is no way of knowing if the replacements are there as the Shield season is once again suspended while this who cares BBL shit is played.

If anything, I would argue that the selectors dropped the wrong opener. Khawaja has done nothing in this series, and he's just turned 38. Will he play in next summer's Ashes? If not, we need 2 new openers, and fast.

I guess the argument against dropping Usman would be that we'd be exposing 2 inexperienced openers to Bumrah. It's a tough one.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

McSweeney is not a frigging opener to begin with, he was shoe-horned into the position to protect all the out of form 30+ year olds hiding in the middle order. He's had to face the new ball against the world's best fast bowler on 3 dangerous tracks in a row (Adelaide in the night game wakens some inner demon) and now he's tossed aside for being as bad as the old blokes.

Travis Head aside no one in the batting line up has shown any sort of consistent form. Labuschagne is forgiven for one half decent knock on his pet batting track, Smith looked like his old self finally but how many Indian summers do great players have? Look at Kohli in Perth when he was allowed to feast on Labuschagne's "bowling". Khawaja has no runs in him and is a liability in the field (and should be sacked just for those dreadful KFC ads). Mitch Marsh can't make a run and barely bowls an over - yet he's in the side as an all-rounder to rest the ageing fast bowling trio, one of whom has broken down again because he gets no respite from the "all-rounder".

Warner was allowed to swan around Australia last summer on a farewell tour when we should have been looking for a new opener and now we pay the price. Konstas looks a genuine potential star, I hope he makes the position his own for the next decade, but dropping a relatively young bat like McSweeney does us no favours.

At least Webster and Abbott are in the squad so maybe we might make another change in the all-rounder spot. Although honestly we could play a bat who bowls ok medium pace or even tight orthodox spin without the tag of all-rounder and do fine.

 

[Grave Danger]

I think it was during the most recent test that they put up a graphic of Australia's 'up and coming' next generation of batsmen and Konstas, plus one other guy I'd never heard of, were the only two under 30 years of age.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

What happens if Bumrah get Konstas out for bugger all in both Melbourne and Sydney?? instantly gets a tour to Sri Lanka because he is young and needs the experience??

Bragging about Bumrah dominance when the series is 1-1 and India were a bit of sunshine away from being 2-1 down sure is something

 

[EskimoPAFC]

On Konstas, did a bit of digging as I haven't actually seen much of him with bat in hand...

In the series against India A he went 0, 16, 3, 73

I just hope that if he is the guy we give him a genuine crack at it.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Bragging about Bumrah dominance when the series is 1-1 and India were a bit of sunshine away from being 2-1 down sure is something

????

He is dominating like no other bowler from overseas has, since the 1890's.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

????

He is dominating like no other bowler from overseas has, since the 1890's.

No doubt he's been amazing, but that sort of post is what you make 3-0 up, not 1-1 after 3 games. Its a team sport after all.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

No doubt he's been amazing, but that sort of post is what you make 3-0 up, not 1-1 after 3 games. Its a team sport after all.

The fact Bumrah doesn't have back up support like the West Indies in their peak years or South Africa when they tour Oz, is all the more reason to make that comment, whatever the series result is so far.

If you are an opening batsmen you are going to have confront Bumrah, and yes good luck keeping him at bay.

 

[raptalia]

????

He is dominating like no other bowler from overseas has, since the 1890's.

Bumrah is dominating for sure but I am not so sure about the 1890s. John Snow had a pretty good tour of Australia in 1970/71. In that series Snow took 31 wickets at 22.83. I can remember that Snow was genuinely fast and had the Aussie batsmen rattled and the press were asking questions. Bumrah's stats would be far better but John Snow was fast and knew how to use the short pitched ball as Terry Jenner found out. I think Australia's batting order was a lot stronger back in 1970, for starters we had two openers in Lawry and Stackpole and they were supported by the likes of Ian Chappell, Sheahan, Redpath, Walters, Greg Chappell and Marsh. I am left wondering how those guys would fare against Bumrah.

The Aussies had no answer to Snow in the first five Tests then they selected Dennis Lillie for the final Test in Adelaide and he took five wickets on debut. In that series six Tests were scheduled which was just as well because the Third Test in Melbourne was abandoned without a ball being bowled. The point about that series is that John Snow dominated in the media as well as on the field and as the likes of McKenzie and Connolly were on the way out Australia had no answer until Lillie suddenly appeared.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

The fact Bumrah doesn't have back up support like the West Indies in their peak years or South Africa when they tour Oz, is all the more reason to make that comment, whatever the series result is so far.

If you are an opening batsmen you are going to have confront Bumrah, and yes good luck keeping him at bay.

Honestly we just aren't gonna agree on this one. I'm not at all denying that Bumrah is having an incredible series and I have no issue with talking about that aspect.

I'm just not gonna be posting about "claiming victims" in a series that India isn't even winning at this point. To use a footy example, to me it would like bragging about how unstoppable Robbie Gray is in a game in which he kicks 8 and we lose. The only thing that truly matters is the team that wins and even great individual performances can only contribute to that. Then again I don't use Twitter anyway.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Bumrah is dominating for sure but I am not so sure about the 1890s. John Snow had a pretty good tour of Australia in 1970/71. In that series Snow took 31 wickets at 22.83. I can remember that Snow was genuinely fast and had the Aussie batsmen rattled and the press were asking questions. Bumrah's stats would be far better but John Snow was fast and knew how to use the short pitched ball as Terry Jenner found out. I think Australia's batting order was a lot stronger back in 1970, for starters we had two openers in Lawry and Stackpole and they were supported by the likes of Ian Chappell, Sheahan, Redpath, Walters, Greg Chappell and Marsh. I am left wondering how those guys would fare against Bumrah.

The Aussies had no answer to Snow in the first five Tests then they selected Dennis Lillie for the final Test in Adelaide and he took five wickets on debut. In that series six Tests were scheduled which was just as well because the Third Test in Melbourne was abandoned without a ball being bowled. The point about that series is that John Snow dominated in the media as well as on the field and as the likes of McKenzie and Connolly were on the way out Australia had no answer until Lillie suddenly appeared.

Richard Hadlee in 1985 had the most dominant fast bowler touring series I can remember. 33 wickets in 3 tests, 2 x man of the match and player of the series.

He created quite a stir by keeping the player of the series prize and not sharing with his teammates. I think that kicked off the 'Hadlee's a w***er' chant

 

[philreich]

Honestly we just aren't gonna agree on this one. I'm not at all denying that Bumrah is having an incredible series and I have no issue with talking about that aspect.

I'm just not gonna be posting about "claiming victims" in a series that India isn't even winning at this point. To use a footy example, to me it would like bragging about how unstoppable Robbie Gray is in a game in which he kicks 8 and we lose. The only thing that truly matters is the team that wins and even great individual performances can only contribute to that. Then again I don't use Twitter anyway.

Yep - Warne was man of the series in the 2005 Ashes series in England, but we still lost the Ashes.

 

[philreich]

Richard Hadlee in 1985 had the most dominant fast bowler touring series I can remember. 33 wickets in 3 tests, 2 x man of the match and player of the series.

He created quite a stir by keeping the player of the series prize and not sharing with his teammates. I think that kicked off the 'Hadlee's a w***er' chant

I remember Hadlee doing a TV interview after he retired. At one point, he mentioned the crowd at the MCG - he says, "They seemed to be fascinated by my employment - they kept saying 'HADLEE'S A BANKER.'"

 

[raptalia]

Richard Hadlee in 1985 had the most dominant fast bowler touring series I can remember. 33 wickets in 3 tests, 2 x man of the match and player of the series.

He created quite a stir by keeping the player of the series prize and not sharing with his teammates. I think that kicked off the 'Hadlee's a w***er' chant

Yes, top of the class Mr Fairlane, you deserve a new set of white wall tyres. I had forgotten that 1985 series against New Zealand. Hadlee was certainly dominant with his fast and accurate bowling. Hadlee took 33 wickets in just 3 Tests including 9/52 in Australia's first innings in Brisbane, that is some feat. As a point of interest Hadlee caught Geoff Lawson off Vaughan Brown so he figured in every wicket to fall in that innings. Of course as is the case now Australia's batting was in a state of flux in 1985 as Border and Boon were still there but likes of Mark Taylor, Dean Jones and the Waughs were still a couple of years away. Yes, spot on Ford, Hadlee's performance was close to the best I have seen from a visiting quick and it is a pity it wasn't a five Test series. Given five Tests Hadlee might have taken 50 wickets for the series that is how much he dominated.

FOOTNOTE: I wasn't around in 1932/33 but I reckon Harold Larwood bowling to Jardine's field placements might have dominated that series as well. Bumrah is having a great series for sure but his bowling is being offset by some solid performances from the Australian quicks. In the case of both Hadlee in 1985 and Snow in 1970 Australia had no outstanding fast bowlers to counter their efforts, save for Dennis Lillie's debut in the 5th Test of 1971, and so these two stood out.

 

[Rising Power]

lol @ people thinking Khawaja, Labuchagne and Marsh will be dropped. All cemented boys club members, the latter since birth and was only dropped after a prolonged, unjustified and unsuccessful run in the team finally broke on the back of Green coming on (and back in when Green got injured)

 

[JimmyBC]

I wouldn't get too down if I were McSweeney there will be some more spots up for grabs soon enough, Khawaja shouldn't be going to Sri Lanka and if Marnus can't make a ton before this series is out he's shaky as well.

 

[Sunshine81]

Honestly we just aren't gonna agree on this one. I'm not at all denying that Bumrah is having an incredible series and I have no issue with talking about that aspect.

I'm just not gonna be posting about "claiming victims" in a series that India isn't even winning at this point. To use a footy example, to me it would like bragging about how unstoppable Robbie Gray is in a game in which he kicks 8 and we lose. The only thing that truly matters is the team that wins and even great individual performances can only contribute to that. Then again I don't use Twitter anyway.

The post isn't about India winning though. And McSweeney is very much a victim of Bumrah. Bharat is a neutral cricket loving journalist, no bragging in that post.

 

[RangaInTeal]

I wouldn't get too down if I were McSweeney there will be some more spots up for grabs soon enough, Khawaja shouldn't be going to Sri Lanka and if Marnus can't make a ton before this series is out he's shaky as well.

Khawaja is one of our best against Spin. Labuschange is on thin ice, but it’s harder to be dropped from a winning team than it is to Force your way in… unless your name is Scott Boland.

Konstas at least has a point of difference to Khawaja, McSweeney to similar. Hence Renshaw would have been a better option, big lad who can get forward and play with bowlers lengths to assist Ussie.

Looking forward to watching Konstas, Renshaw, McSweeney, Green, Head (C), ?O.Davies/Inglis, Carey/Inglis, Cummins, O’Neil, Murphy, Morris in the next 3-4 years…

 

[EskimoPAFC]

The post isn't about India winning though. And McSweeney is very much a victim of Bumrah. Bharat is a neutral cricket loving journalist, no bragging in that post.

Yes but McSweeney is on the team thats been the better for 2 out of 3 games. If anything Bumrah has been his victim when you consider the overall team performance.

Would you rather win the ashes as an opener with an average of 6? Or lose with an average of 60? To me its clear. Winning is winning.

But yeah I dont think there is any point in trying to argue this one. You either see it one way or the other. Neither viewpoint is entirely wrong or right.

 

[philreich]

Yes but McSweeney is on the team thats been the better for 2 out of 3 games. If anything Bumrah has been his victim when you consider the overall team performance.

Would you rather win the ashes as an opener with an average of 6? Or lose with an average of 60? To me its clear. Winning is winning.

But yeah I dont think there is any point in trying to argue this one. You either see it one way or the other. Neither viewpoint is entirely wrong or right.

Geez I'd love to see Boland take 6 for 7 again!!!

 

[1954]

Bumrah is dominating for sure but I am not so sure about the 1890s. John Snow had a pretty good tour of Australia in 1970/71. In that series Snow took 31 wickets at 22.83. I can remember that Snow was genuinely fast and had the Aussie batsmen rattled and the press were asking questions. Bumrah's stats would be far better but John Snow was fast and knew how to use the short pitched ball as Terry Jenner found out. I think Australia's batting order was a lot stronger back in 1970, for starters we had two openers in Lawry and Stackpole and they were supported by the likes of Ian Chappell, Sheahan, Redpath, Walters, Greg Chappell and Marsh. I am left wondering how those guys would fare against Bumrah.

The Aussies had no answer to Snow in the first five Tests then they selected Dennis Lillie for the final Test in Adelaide and he took five wickets on debut. In that series six Tests were scheduled which was just as well because the Third Test in Melbourne was abandoned without a ball being bowled. The point about that series is that John Snow dominated in the media as well as on the field and as the likes of McKenzie and Connolly were on the way out Australia had no answer until Lillie suddenly appeared.

John Snow's bowling and Ray Illingworth's captaincy were the difference between the Aussies winning or losing that 1970-71 ashes series.

I attended the MCC v SA game at Adelaide oval and Snow looked to be no more than a bog ordinary medium pacer who from memory took only 1 wicket for well over 100 runs in SA's first innings, but according to cricket media of the time he was an extremely moody campaigner who only tried when he felt like it.

When the tests began though he bowled significantly quicker and could get very steep bounce from just short of a length which was at times unplayable, although when he hit Jenner in the head that was a more conventional bouncer, which he apparently seldom used.

If the Aussie selectors had chosen Dennis Lillee earlier in that series instead of `Froggy' Thompson, who was continually over used in the first four tests by Bill Lawrie in what could have been an attempt to `buy' a fellow Victorian wickets there may have been a different result.

Thompson's 12 wickets at 54.50 were a stark contrast to Snows 31 at just under 23.

 

[Grave Danger]

Maybe it was just that one particular test at the WACA, but I recall Curtley Ambrose being deadly in Australia. As mentioned though, he did have a few more mates than Bumrah does.

 

[raptalia]

Khawaja is one of our best against Spin. Labuschange is on thin ice, but it’s harder to be dropped from a winning team than it is to Force your way in… unless your name is Scott Boland.

Konstas at least has a point of difference to Khawaja, McSweeney to similar. Hence Renshaw would have been a better option, big lad who can get forward and play with bowlers lengths to assist Ussie.

Looking forward to watching Konstas, Renshaw, McSweeney, Green, Head (C), ?O.Davies/Inglis, Carey/Inglis, Cummins, O’Neil, Murphy, Morris in the next 3-4 years…

Matthew Renshaw is averaging 27.90 in the Sheffield Shields atm. There is no way he should get picked unless he can put more runs on the board. In 14 Tests Renshaw has made 645 runs at 29.31 and 184 of those came in one innings against Pakistan back in 2017. In 10 of his last 12 Test innings Renshaw has failed to make it to double figures Renshaw has had plenty of chances but not made the most of them. That doesn't mean he should not be recalled in the future but he would need to put some runs on the board first.

Perhaps the form opener in the Sheffield Shield atm is Henry Hunt from South Australia. Hunt is the leading run scorer in the comp with 537 runs at 44.75 and on form he might have had been tried before his team mate McSweeney who does not normally open the innings.

For me the man under the most pressure atm should be Usman Khwaja who at 38 years of age has just 63 runs at 12.60. On those figures Usman is in the side on reputation and hope. If he fails again in Melbourne his days must be numbered.