News Crows eye Walker, Jacobs

[Glenno23]

How "super tallented" is he ??? He was taken with a 5th rd pick in 2008 and has played 2 games in 2 years (despite your injury concerns this year). I know nothing about him, but what puts him into the "super tallented" catagory outside of him playing for the Crows ???

Super talented may be a bit too much, but he has certainly showed some great form in the SANFL

He was also injured most of the year and took some time time to regain some form in the SANFL

Racked up a few BOG's and our match committee had no choice but to select him for our Saturday night game against the Pies where he won the Panasonic by being named BOG by Lloyd (somewhat controversally) after he kept Harry O to 4 touches and kicked a goal himself as a defensive forward

He is a backman though and can hold down a KPP (he is 192cms) but can play an Andy Otten like role (if you saw Andy in 2009, you'll know what i mean)

His first game against the Swans he was played on McGlynn who was the worst possible match up for him and got duly smashed (as did the Crows)

here is his bio:

http://www.afc.com.au/players/playe.../senior/season/2010/selected/bio/default.aspx

Has a lot of upside and is still very Young (excuse the pun)

 

[blueblood25]

So Adelaide offer Jacobs a million dollar 3 year deal and supporters expect him to come for peanuts. You get what you give

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Super talented may be a bit too much, but he has certainly showed some great form in the SANFL

He was also injured most of the year and took some time time to regain some form in the SANFL

Racked up a few BOG's and our match committee had no choice but to select him for our Saturday night game against the Pies where he won the Panasonic by being named BOG by Lloyd (somewhat controversally) after he kept Harry O to 4 touches and kicked a goal himself as a defensive forward

He is a backman though and can hold down a KPP (he is 192cms) but can play an Andy Otten like role (if you saw Andy in 2009, you'll know what i mean)

His first game against the Swans he was played on McGlynn who was the worst possible match up for him and got duly smashed (as did the Crows)

here is his bio:

http://www.afc.com.au/players/playe.../senior/season/2010/selected/bio/default.aspx

Has a lot of upside and is still very Young (excuse the pun)

You're kidding aren't ya? SANFL? LOL.

You're basically offering 2 guys who can't get into your 22 for a ruckman who has broken into our 22 ahead of Warnock for most of the year and outrucked an AA ruckman in an elimination final.

 

[King Elvis]

Adelaide posters need to address this question: "who will they give up who will (not can, but will) play 150-200 KP games?"

That's what they want from us in Jacobs, ruckmen being equivalent to KPP.

Sellar won't. McKernan has not proved it. And pick 14 allegedly off the table.

Take the Sydney Final out of the equation, what does it do to Jacob's value?

But if you can give me a guarantee that Jacobs will be a 200 game player (and therefore a very good ruckman), then #14 would be on the table. But you can't give that guarantee.

But he hasn't proven it, SMcK hasn't proven it either, but he's younger.

Sellar alone isn't worth Jacobs, SMcK alone would be around the mark - I genuinely think it's a case of most of us not having seen enough of Jacobs to get excited about his potential, where as you guys are the same with SMcK.

 

[Glenno23]

You're kidding aren't ya? SANFL? LOL.

You're basically offering 2 guys who can't get into your 22 for a ruckman who has broken into our 22 ahead of Warnock for most of the year and outrucked an AA ruckman in an elimination final.

I'm not offering anything

I don't work for the Crows

You guys keep saying you want a tall, but we're not goig to give up the farm to secure an uncontracted guy who has nominated us as his club of choice

The bock pick will get it done

 

[Jeremias]

Sellar alone isn't worth Jacobs, SMcK alone would be around the mark - I genuinely think it's a case of most of us not having seen enough of Jacobs to get excited about his potential, where as you guys are the same with SMcK.

You'd love to do a straight swap of Jacobs for McKernan.

We haven't seen enough of McKernan to get excited about his potential because he's done nothing at AFL level. Obviously, not entirely his fault.

Jacobs, on the other hand, has shown plenty in his games at senior level, even taking out the dominant performance against Mumford and Pyke in the elimination final.

To suggest that a player that has shown good form in the SANFL is equal to a 22 year old ruckman that has performed brilliantly in a number of AFL games in his first real year on a senior list is just laughable.

 

[King Elvis]

How "super tallented" is he ??? He was taken with a 5th rd pick in 2008 and has played 2 games in 2 years (despite your injury concerns this year).

Our injury concerns generally haven't been in positions that Young could fill.

Young is good, highly rated within the Crows, not at Davis-like levels where'd he be in our best 4-6 players, but definitely good enough that he'd be around 10-12th best.

Sellar is realistically a sweetener; he could become a very good footballer, or he could be a bust, we all know that, but Young is already a good footballer.

You'd love to do a straight swap of Jacobs for McKernan.

Genuinely wouldn't - I wouldn't consider it if we didn't have a surplus of talls. But we do, and we're after a ruckman, where as you need KPPs, so it makes sense. I'd almost rather trade Talia - but that's purely because I haven't seen enough of Talia to make a judgement on him.

SMcK is obviously younger than Jacobs, has had some injuries (broken arm) that have slowed his development, but in a couple of years time, I've got no doubt he'll be well on his way to being a very good young AFL player.

If we kept him, which I hope we do, he'll be in the Kosi mould, a KPP who pinch hits in the ruck for us. (but hopefully better).

 

[Sekaj]

Will Young was BOG against Collingwood according to Matthew Lloyd.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

I'm not offering anything

I don't work for the Crows

You guys keep saying you want a tall, but we're not goig to give up the farm to secure an uncontracted guy who has nominated us as his club of choice

The bock pick will get it done

You don't work for the Crows but you know you're not gonna give up a decent tall for Jacobs and you know the Bock pick will get it done. Funny.

 

[Glenno23]

You don't work for the Crows but you know you're not gonna give up a decent tall for Jacobs and you know the Bock pick will get it done. Funny.

yeah, fair call

Its all speculative i guess, but thats what BF is for, but i shouldn't have pulled you up for it and then done it myself

take this for what you will: but C4 is generally on the money is he not?

I've got a sneaky suspicion some posters (both from Carlton and Adelaide) are going to look back at this thread and feel silly - with some of these outrageous trade proposals.

FWIW Sellar is guaranteed to become a Blue next season - according to an AFC player, citing continual bad treatment from Neil Craig.

The stories I heard were remarkable ... it reminded me of how John Meesen was treated.

 

[blues4flag]

The only truly objective comparison that can be given is in terms of statistics. It has its flaws but at the very least gives a decent indication. Thus, looking at Sam Jacobs' 2010 statistics versus recent ruckmen in the year they were drafted:

Sam Jacobs vs Cameron Wood (2007)
Wood traded for pick 14


Clearly Sam Jacobs well ahead of Wood.


Sam Jacobs vs Mark Seaby (2009)
Seaby traded for pick 22


Again, Jacobs well ahead of Seaby. Seaby's a few years older without the scope for improvement, too.


Sam Jacobs vs Shane Mumford (2009)
Mumford traded for pick 28


Despite Mumford probably having a higher profile, the stats show that Jacobs had a superior season prior to being drafted.


Sam Jacobs vs Darren Jolly (2004)
Jolly traded for pick 15


Jacobs vastly superior to Jolly when he was first traded to Sydney, despite being the younger player.


Sam Jacobs vs Darren Jolly (2009)
Jolly traded for pick 14 and 46


Even in terms of possessions but Jolly well ahead in goals and hitouts. However, Jolly was a number one ruckman in his prime, whereas all the rest were number 2 rucks in their early 20s.


Sam Jacobs vs Ben Hudson (2007)
Traded with pick 43 for picks 30 and 38


Hudson found more of the football but Jacobs the better tap ruckman (again, Jacobs 2nd ruck, Hudson 1st). Given Hudson was 28, his scope for improvement and longevity was much less than Jacobs, decreasing his trade value.


Sam Jacobs vs Ivan Maric (2010)
Adelaide's current number one ruckman


Even as the second ruck, Jacobs' numbers are better than Mumford pretty much across the board. Bodes well for him being number one ruck at Adelaide if traded.

______________________________________________

Considering all the above, I'm not sure how you supporters continue to claim that Jacobs is unproven. Jolly asides, he appears to be the most proven ruckman put up for trade in recent years.

 

[Jimthegreat]

You had your chance to get Talia and you passed him up for yet another midfielder....

Do you work for Carlton's recruiting team?

If not, you may end up dissappointed at the trade. At this stage it looks as though the Bock pick may end up being the one we come to an agreement on.

You want our pick 14, we say no

We offer our 2nd rounder, you say no.

We offer our Bock pick (which could be anywhere from 19-26 whenn used) and that'll get it done if its just Jacobs we land

If a player is involved Will Young could also be looked at with Sellar, but Young is super talented so you wouldn't get our Bock pick with Young attached

Seem we want Talia from Adelaide now for Walker. Suggest you give if you want Walker. 24 yo old 100 game player for a kid. Would have to be fair from your end surely.

If not, you might not get him and we'll either keep him, given his contract, or look elsewhere.

 

[Salaryman]

love your work B4F

 

[Silvagnis]

blues4flag, a Jamar - Jacobs comparison would have been a better one.

You had your chance to get Talia and you passed him up for yet another midfielder....

Do you work for Carlton's recruiting team?

Your recruiters passed on Jetta and other mids for another tall flanker who might be a KPP like Sellar and McKernan. I think your cocky supporters actually work for your recruiting team. That's the view you get after reading how everyone who is 190 cms plus and an Adelaide player is untouchable.

Except for Sellar...

 

[Gezim]

i think Carlton might have spoken to Gibbs about james sellar as to what he was like when he played with him, gibbs would know a fair bit about him.

 

[Buzz/Sticks/bryce]

i think Carlton might have spoken to Gibbs about james sellar as to what he was like when he played with him, gibbs would know a fair bit about him.

" C'mon Bryce-tell us the truth. He's a spud isn't he? I knew it."

 

[Glenno23]

Seem we want Talia from Adelaide now for Walker. Suggest you give if you want Walker. 24 yo old 100 game player for a kid. Would have to be fair from your end surely.

If not, you might not get him and we'll either keep him, given his contract, or look elsewhere.

I haven't seen enough/ any of Talia to comment

He played no games for the Crows this year and i live in Perth, so i don't see any SANFL either

It would depend on needs. If it was crucial for us to get Walker to help win a flag, then yes, i think its a great deal and probably slightly in our favour.

But Walker is not our missing piece/ our must have to win a flag

He would be a handy pick up, but i wouldn't be cut to miss out on him.

The bulldogs have helped your situation for Walker, and he may go out of the range we would be willing to pay

With Jacobs i feel we have some leverage in the fact that he has says Adelaide is his preferred destination

 

[methinks]

If a team had picked jacobs at #14 and he was developing as he has been i think it would of done there pick alot of justice and they would be more than pleased with him.

He's a big boy who can throw his weight around, turning into a fantastic tap ruckman and has alot more upside and improvement to come.

So as i said, from what he has shown and how much more upside there is to him pick #14 is quite adequate for sauce.

Agree, he's going to be a long term player and is already a great tap to advantage ruckman, he's no sloush either. Blues should have given him mire opportunities. They should have used Hampson as part of the deal to get Warnock and we'd be sweet.
Ps, i can't believe the extent they went to get an injured unproven ruckman in Warnock and pay him a large amount of money when we already had Jacobs and dud Hampson. MIND BLOWING

 

[methinks]

The only truly objective comparison that can be given is in terms of statistics. It has its flaws but at the very least gives a decent indication. Thus, looking at Sam Jacobs' 2010 statistics versus recent ruckmen in the year they were drafted:

Sam Jacobs vs Cameron Wood (2007)
Wood traded for pick 14


Clearly Sam Jacobs well ahead of Wood.


Sam Jacobs vs Mark Seaby (2009)
Seaby traded for pick 22


Again, Jacobs well ahead of Seaby. Seaby's a few years older without the scope for improvement, too.


Sam Jacobs vs Shane Mumford (2009)
Mumford traded for pick 28


Despite Mumford probably having a higher profile, the stats show that Jacobs had a superior season prior to being drafted.


Sam Jacobs vs Darren Jolly (2004)
Jolly traded for pick 15


Jacobs vastly superior to Jolly when he was first traded to Sydney, despite being the younger player.


Sam Jacobs vs Darren Jolly (2009)
Jolly traded for pick 14 and 46


Even in terms of possessions but Jolly well ahead in goals and hitouts. However, Jolly was a number one ruckman in his prime, whereas all the rest were number 2 rucks in their early 20s.


Sam Jacobs vs Ben Hudson (2007)
Traded with pick 43 for picks 30 and 38


Hudson found more of the football but Jacobs the better tap ruckman (again, Jacobs 2nd ruck, Hudson 1st). Given Hudson was 28, his scope for improvement and longevity was much less than Jacobs, decreasing his trade value.


Sam Jacobs vs Ivan Maric (2010)
Adelaide's current number one ruckman


Even as the second ruck, Jacobs' numbers are better than Mumford pretty much across the board. Bodes well for him being number one ruck at Adelaide if traded.

______________________________________________

Considering all the above, I'm not sure how you supporters continue to claim that Jacobs is unproven. Jolly asides, he appears to be the most proven ruckman put up for trade in recent years.

You rock, I have no idea what games these supporters have been watching. Jacobs is a proven ruckman and is worth more than a 1st round pick. I wish they'd throw everything they can at him and gaurentee him that he would be number 1 ruckman. Get rid of dud Hampson and continue to develop Warnock. Im so shattered
Ps My mail is that they believe that GS want Hampson and they believe that they would get a good deal. If that the case then they should wait and see if this deal can be done and give Jacobs what he deserves.

 

[Salaryman]

FMD, just reading the last few pages, there's a lot of Crows fans with superior knowledge of the juniors and their development paths....as well as recruitment philosophies, and they don't seem to need to watch, TAC, Maccas Cup, SANFL, VFL or AFL to do it...amazingly talented this crows mob..

 

[Stamos]

Ps My mail is that they believe that GS want Hampson and they believe that they would get a good deal. If that the case then they should wait and see if this deal can be done and give Jacobs what he deserves.

Please. Get this into your thick head. HAMPSON IS IRRELEVANT TO JACOBS WANTING TO LEAVE.
If we trade Hampson, JACOBS WILL STILL BE IN THE VFL AND HE WILL STILL WANT TO LEAVE.

 

[methinks]

Agree with that. Hammer (if he stays) to be a long term project.

Kreuzer will be coming back from a knee reco, and if you think the club will just throw him straight back there.......with possible knee knocks when contesting at bounces, ya kidding yourselves.

I would be surprised to see him play ruck at all next year, will play the year forward.........post 2011 will depend on how Kreuzer played forward and how his knee is.

Jacobs is daylight ahead of Hampson. And to those that keep saying Hammer is valuable up forward give us a spell, kreuzer is the ruck forward.

Walker? I'm happy to trade.

Agree agree agree. But lets trade Hampson and gauarentee Jacobs no 1 ruck and match whatever adelaide are offering him. We finally developed a quality ruckman and now treat him like this.

 

[Buzz/Sticks/bryce]

Agree agree agree. But lets trade Hampson and gauarentee Jacobs no 1 ruck and match whatever adelaide are offering him. We finally developed a quality ruckman and now treat him like this.

We'd probably end up losing Kreuzer who also wants to be a number one ruck

alongside Warnock

 

[Stamos]

But lets trade Hampson and gauarentee Jacobs no 1 ruck and match whatever adelaide are offering him.

So we should just delist Kreuzer and Warnock. Get off the bongs.

 

[methinks]

its obvious they need a ruckman, and jacobs has reportedly said he would like to stay in vic.. why can't it be a possibilty?

Cause the Blues threw all sorts of money and picks to get Warnock, big mistake. They should have used Hampson as part of the trade and Jacobs should have taken the number one ruck when Kruezer went down. Blues have got it wrong again.