Crows Members: Club call you asking for donation?

[jenny61_99]

Then we treat him as we treated Stevens, Tippett, Doughty, Vince, Edwards, Burton, Symes and Poplyzia this season and pick him anyway

Well played!

 

[Vader]

Then we treat him as we treated Stevens, Tippett, Doughty, Vince, Edwards, Burton, Symes and Poplyzia this season and pick him anyway

In which case he'll spend a fair amount of time in the SANFL. Vince, Edwards, Burton and Porplyzia were all dropped due to poor form during the 2010 season.

Only Edwards failed to play in the SANFL - because he chose to retire instead.

Doughty never deserved to be dropped at any stage during the season.

That leaves Stevens, Tippett and Symes. Stevens was fortunate in that his poor form (and it truly was abysmal) coincided with the time when our KPP defender options were pretty much zilch. By the time our alternatives returned from injury, so had his form. Tippett & Symes I'll give you.

 

[srv23]

In which case he'll spend a fair amount of time in the SANFL. Vince, Edwards, Burton and Porplyzia were all dropped due to poor form during the 2010 season.

Only Edwards failed to play in the SANFL - because he chose to retire instead.

Doughty never deserved to be dropped at any stage during the season.

That leaves Stevens, Tippett and Symes. Stevens was fortunate in that his poor form (and it truly was abysmal) coincided with the time when our KPP defender options were pretty much zilch. By the time our alternatives returned from injury, so had his form. Tippett & Symes I'll give you.

To be fair Vince was dropped due to the staying out too late incident not on form, Porps was dropped, played one not overly impressive game and came back in. Burton was dropped but you could argue that he was alllowed far more leeway for poor matches than Walker. If he wasn't injurued and went in for surgery I wonder how long he would have had to work on his deficiencies in the SANFL?

Edwards was dropped and then retired.

Stevens should have been dropped at some stage early in the season ( from memory wasn't davis still running around the sanfl early in the season while Stevens was atrocious - can't remember when Davis got into the side)

Tippett and Symes you've conceded.

Doughty was solid defensively throughout the whole season but early on his offensive work was a worry - didn't deserve to be dropped.

So out of that entire group their poor form amounted to something like 1 game in the SANFL combined.

 

[Vader]

To be fair Vince was dropped due to the staying out too late incident not on form, Porps was dropped, played one not overly impressive game and came back in. Burton was dropped but you could argue that he was alllowed far more leeway for poor matches than Walker. If he wasn't injurued and went in for surgery I wonder how long he would have had to work on his deficiencies in the SANFL?

Vince was reported to be on the verge of getting dropped a couple of times during the season, only to be saved by someone else getting injured. A lack of options forced the selectors to keep him in the team. However, as noted, the only time he did actually get dropped was for disciplinary reasons - not form.

Porps only missed one game due to being dropped for form-related reasons. Like Vince, he was saved from further ignomy by injuries to other players which forced the selectors to bring him back into the team.

Burton had plenty of brownie points stored up after years of outstanding service. Those brownie points expired after just 6 games and he never played a senior game again, though he did manage several games in the SANFL.

Stevens should have been dropped at some stage early in the season ( from memory wasn't davis still running around the sanfl early in the season while Stevens was atrocious - can't remember when Davis got into the side)

Stevens missed R2-5 due to concussion and his form was atrocious (at best) from R6-10 (roughly) as he struggled to shake off the after-effects of the latest in a long line of brain injuries (ie concussions).

Davis came into the team in R4 (while Stevens was MIA due to concussion) and remained in the team until R17 when he was dropped to make way for Bock. The only game he missed in this period was due to injury, a result of his collision with Sandilands. By the time Davis was dropped in R17, Stevens was in career-best form and the selectors' choice was Bock vs Davis, with Stevens' position well and truly secure.

Bock was in & out of the team like a yo-yo, but he did play every game from R6-10 when Stevens was at his nadir.

The only other options were Young, Sellar, Mckernan and Talia. Of those, Sellar wasn't available for quite a while, having badly blown his hammie in the R2 game against Sydney, he also took a while to get going again once he did return from injury. McKernan's early season form was barely good enough to keep him in the South Adelaide seniors. Talia was mostly injured and therefore unavailable for selection. That left just Will Young - and the selectors were reluctant to give him a 2nd game so soon after he got burned so badly on debut.

In short.. Stevens DID deserve to get dropped during the first half of the season, but we didn't have any options for replacing him. Bock & Davis were both already in the team and none of the younger players were presenting the selectors a viable alternative.

So out of that entire group their poor form amounted to something like 1 game in the SANFL combined.

Burton & Edwards were both dropped, never to return. Vince, Stevens & Porps were all saved from lengthy SANFL stints due to a lack of alternatives resulting from injuries to other players.

 

[srv23]

OK - so you say a number of players were "on the verge" of being dropped but weren't dure there being no-one to replace them which I don't have a huge problem with.

I think the issue was whether being judged on the same criteria - Walker should have been dropped. Firstly I would argue that Burton's form was worse than Walker's when he got dropped and should have been dropped before Walker (Burton could barely kick from 30 out and make the distance at that stage) However I'll go with the - Burton is more senior has runs on the board theory.

Ok - so Walker was dropped for Henderson - no probs - got to see another young guy and the club said they dropped Walker to bring Hendo in cause they thought his extra mobility would suit Etihad and a game against the Dogs. Then Hendo got injurerd?/Dropped - can't remember. Danger was injured as well. Maybe someone else From memory we then brought in 2/3 smaller players - one being a massively underdone Knights. We then stated at the Chairmans lunch (reported on 5aa) that people should not be upset with Walker not coming in because he's competing for spots in the forward line with Burton/Tippett/Hentschel and we needed to bring running players in. To which Rowe said - "But he was dropped for Hendo who's come out of the team"

What frustrates people regarding Walker is the inconsitent statements fom the club and the double standards.

ie Stevens is terrible but there are no viable alternatives so he stays in the side (add in Vince,Porps etc as other examples)-

Walker is "terrible" - there are no viable alternatives to bring into the side when Henderson was injured - well we'll just bring in a small player instead and disrupt the balance of the side just to keep Walker in the SANFL.

 

[Vader]

Walker played 18 out of 22 games this year. 3 of the games he missed directly followed a period where he kicked 0.1, 0.1 and 1.1 in 3 consecutive games. It's not difficult at all to justify his omission after such a run of poor form, given his lack of brownie points.

As you say, Henderson came in and we were all reasonably happy. Henderson was dropped the following week, but Walker's SANFL form hadn't exactly forced the selectors to reinstate him, so they found someone else instead.

Adelaide made 2 changes between R5 (when Henderson replaced Walker) and R6. Henderson was dropped and Dangerfield was injured. Stevens returned from concussion and Jaensch made his debut. Would either of these selections have been controversial, if the woefully out of form Walker were not still sitting on the sidelines?

Burton's last ever game in Adelaide colours was in R7 against Richmond. Walker returned to the team in R8 and only missed one more game for the entire year.

Walker got treated the same as any other talented kid. He got dropped due to poor form, his position not helped by the fact that there were viable alternatives and players returning from injury. When a position opened up again he was brought straight back into the team. I would be disappointed with the club if they treated him any differently.

 

[srv23]

Walker played 18 out of 22 games this year. 3 of the games he missed directly followed a period where he kicked 0.1, 0.1 and 1.1 in 3 consecutive games. It's not difficult at all to justify his omission after such a run of poor form, given his lack of brownie points.

I would still argue that Burton should have been dropped ahead of Walker FWIW I don't think a young inconsistent Franklin/Riewoldt (Jack or Nick) as recent examples would have been dropped after 3 games with output like that especially since the game before Walker got dropped he was playing on the wing for long period and had his highest number of tackles ever.

As you say, Henderson came in and we were all reasonably happy. Henderson was dropped the following week, but Walker's SANFL form hadn't exactly forced the selectors to reinstate him, so they found someone else instead.

So only some players have to play well in the SANFL to earn their spots back? Cause Porps and Stevens coming back from concussion sure as hell didn't.

Adelaide made 2 changes between R5 (when Henderson replaced Walker) and R6. Henderson was dropped and Dangerfield was injured. Stevens returned from concussion and Jaensch made his debut. Would either of these selections have been controversial, if the woefully out of form Walker were not still sitting on the sidelines?

Stevens played 1 very average game in the SANFL before coming straight back into the side. Given Stevens well documented history of taking 3 or 4 games to get back to decent form after a concussion - I would argue that for team balance (and for Stevo's form/helath) it would have made more sense to give Stevens another game or 2 to get over his concussion in the SANFL (rather than being a liability at AFL level) and bring Walker back for Handerson. I also think "woefully out of form" is stretching it when you describe Walker. The only game he played before being dropped where he spent the entire game when on the ground in the forward 50 was Round 1 against Freo and he kicked 4 goals. He then got sent roaming to the wing/HBF while Burton repeatedly failed to make the distance from 30 out.

Burton's last ever game in Adelaide colours was in R7 against Richmond. Walker returned to the team in R8 and only missed one more game for the entire year.

This is purely speculation but would this have been the case if Burton has not had a knee operation and miss most of the rest of the year before having to come back through the SANFL late in the season?

Walker got treated the same as any other talented kid. He got dropped due to poor form, his position not helped by the fact that there were viable alternatives and players returning from injury. When a position opened up again he was brought straight back into the team. I would be disappointed with the club if they treated him any differently.

He got treated the same as any other talented kid (at our club although we put up with much more poor form from Tippett in 08 and reaped the rewards) He was not treated the same as more senior players in equally bad and arguably worse form - the question that is being asked is in a side that is 0-6 and very little chance of making finals in a development year - Is that right? I'm not saying play the kids regardless of form. I'm saying hold senior players as accountable for their poor form as younger players.

You're saying it's ok for Stevens to play like crap for a month and stay in the team because there are no viable alternatives but it's not OK for a 20 year old talented KPF to have a couple of poor games whilst being played out of position and it should be expected that he be dropped. That just breeds complacency from Senior players with "team security".

 

[jenny61_99]

Vader I guess the argument isn't so much that he got dropped, because he definitely deserved to be, but that others who also deserved to be, weren't.

I have to say though, in the early part of the season, they ALL should have been dropped because their form was so crap! Bit hard to do that.

My theory (for what it's worth) is that Walker is getting tailor-made (pardon the pun ) handling. We all know he's a kid with huge upsides and some of us also recognise he has the personality that could potentially allow him to get carried away with his own importance. (not sure that's the right way to word it, but I think you know what I mean). I think this is why you'll find him treated differently to others (like Tippett, for example). It's probably not "fair" however it may just be the making of him.

 

[Vader]

Stevens & Porps came straight back into the team, as soon as they were deemed "fit", as they have earned "team security". Walker certainly had not earned that right early in the season and it's debatable whether he's earned it yet.

I was not in favour of Stevens being rushed back into the team, having played just one mediocre SANFL game to prove his fitness. That said, his selection still had more merit than the selection of Walker who had been poor in the AFL and hadn't done anything in the SANFL to justify reinstatement to the senior team.

2010 was Walker's 2nd year in the seniors, he played 18 games. He went goalless on 3 occasions and kicked just a solitary goal on 4 occasions. In comparison..

• Jack Reiwoldt also played 18 games in his 2nd year in the seniors (2008). The tigers showed remarkable persistence with him, then again, they didn't (and still don't) have any alternatives.
• Franklin only played 14 in his 2nd year (2006), missing R1-8. He still managed to kick 31 goals for the year, averaging better than 2 per game, including 2 bags of 6.
• Nick Reiwoldt was a top-2 draft pick, who won the Rising Star medal in his 2nd year in the competition. I think that says something about the consistency he showed early in his career, which Walker has been sadly lacking.

** Some of those absences may have been due to injury, rather than being dropped outright.

I'm sorry.. I just don't see how Walker has been mis-handled. He got dropped because his form was lousy. He hadn't earned "team security", so his return had to wait until he improved his form or the other options exhausted themselves. I don't see that the selectors need to be kissing his feet just because he's extremely talented. He's like the girl from that poem:
There was a little girl,
Who had a little curl,
Right in the middle of her forehead.
When she was good, she was very, very good.
But when she was bad, she was rotten.

Good form gets rewarded. Rotten form gets penalised. Such is life. When Walker shows consistency in his efforts from one game to the next then he'll earn "team security" and won't have to worry about returning via the SANFL when he suffers a short-term injury.

 

[Vader]

Vader I guess the argument isn't so much that he got dropped, because he definitely deserved to be, but that others who also deserved to be, weren't.

I have to say though, in the early part of the season, they ALL should have been dropped because their form was so crap! Bit hard to do that.

My theory (for what it's worth) is that Walker is getting tailor-made (pardon the pun ) handling. We all know he's a kid with huge upsides and some of us also recognise he has the personality that could potentially allow him to get carried away with his own importance. (not sure that's the right way to word it, but I think you know what I mean). I think this is why you'll find him treated differently to others (like Tippett, for example). It's probably not "fair" however it may just be the making of him.

I'm not going to defend the selections of Tippett & Symes in the face of some fairly major form slumps.

Pretty much everyone else named in this thread had their backsides saved by an injury to someone else - leaving the selectors with no choice but to persevere with a badly out of form senior player. I have no doubt at all that Stevens, Vince & Porplyzia would have spent more time in the SANFL if there were actually some youngsters who were fit and firing, giving the AFC selectors an alternative.

 

[robboaustralia]

I wasn't listening right because I knew what was coming (the ask for a donation of $200)
But I thought it was
1st prize - $30,000
2nd prize - $10,000
3rd-5th prize - a guersey signed by Simon Goodwin and Neil Craig valued at $240

but only 1,000 tickets were being sold

so assuming all 1,000 got sold, and all prizes go, they'd make $200,000 and lose $45,720. Making for a final amount of +$154,280

probably would of made more money if they went for $20 tickets, could of gotten 1 out of most people, more overall profit I probably would of considered buying 5 at $20, but not any of the $200 for a ticket shit

I'll buy a $200 ticket if they promise to get rid of that stupid cartoon character 2010 crow logo on the white away guernsey!

 

[Punchy Bassett]

This thread is rather off topic now.

 

[The Smaller Warrior]

Kind of like that Charity Lotto thing they do every year? Where you can win a house or something like that.

edit: http://www.lifestyleslottery.com.au/main.php

I would think something similar to that 'Pickard Power' Draw Port had last year would work quiet well at the Crows.

From memory your crowds dropped a little last year aswell, and though the draw we had didnt particularly solve our crowd issues your 'issues' are no where near as large as ours.

Offer tickets to fans who show up to every game, if they make it to a certain amount of games they get a ticket etc. The amount of people who turn up to extra games should bring in a nice little profit, and promote 'sharing' tickets if you cant make it to one or two games a year. Have a nice little prize at the end of it.

Im not sure but a $200 Lottery seems like a fairly big investment for what is a somewhat 'small' prize when you take it into perspective.

No reason why you guys shouldn't be able to pack AAMI every week with a bit of marketing.

'Pickard Power' Loyalty Draw info here: http://www.portadelaidefc.com.au/pickard power loyalty rewards/tabid/15884/default.aspx

 

[SugarShane]

I'll buy a $200 ticket if they promise to get rid of that stupid cartoon character 2010 crow logo on the white away guernsey!

Ditto.

 

[cmndstab]

I don't think anyone would argue that keeping Burton in the side while Walker dropped out was merited. The only possible argument for it's occurrence is the whole "team security" thing, but it was still inexcusable.

I view it as an aberration rather than the norm, however. I think most other demotions (either the decision to drop someone to the SANFL, or not to drop someone to the SANFL) have been handled pretty much correctly. Everyone always brings up Tippett in 08, but who were we going to replace him with? He was kept in that spot because nobody else was there to take his place - and even then, we eventually (reluctantly) dropped him when he went to complete shit. We did the same with Walker a couple of times this year. It's only his demotion with Burton retaining a spot that sticks out in my mind as an awful lapse of judgement.

 

[Geoffa32]

didnt think much of it. They rang me during office hours. Knew when I heard the "marketing crap" what they wanted. Strung the guy along a bit till he said 200 bucks and declined.

Might be annoying but I dont mind the club at least trying to raise some money. But I do think $200 precludes many from helping. I did think about it, but thought I prefer my odds on Centrebet. NBA season coming up................

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

In which case he'll spend a fair amount of time in the SANFL. Vince, Edwards, Burton and Porplyzia were all dropped due to poor form during the 2010 season.

Vince? Poor form on the dance floor maybe.

Burton? He was "dropped' into a hospital ward for surgery.

Porplyzia? My memory might be playing tricks but didn't you spend the entire season demanding that he be dropped, only to be disappointed week after week after week?

Edwards: "You can't fire me cos I quit."

 

[relapse]

I was rang about one during the season. It was really disappointing as it was just before the final game and the girl rang and said that "I was one of the lucky members selected ....", I begin to think that I am going to present a jumper to one of the players at the final game then I hear, "to partake in a crows lottery". I was literally gutted and I said interesting choice to words to try and sell raffle tickets, I actually thought I had won something. I think the girl knew by my tone of voice that I didnt mean it in jest so when I scoffed at the price she knew there wasnt going to be a sale.

Not sure how many of thsse "$200 raffle tickets" get sold, but I wouldnt buy one at that price surely not even 10% of our members would buy one at that price unless there was ridiculously high odds of winning a price worth substantially more than $200

 

[King Elvis]

They'd sell fine.

 

[DrParrot]

just thought i would let you all know that the hawks mail out raffle tickets for members to sell, but i also got cold called regarding buying a raffle ticket.

so may be a standard thing for afl clubs?

 

[fryingpan]

I don't know what to think about this. Why am I giving $200 donations and basically getting nothing in return for being a gold member. As a gold member what am I entitled to?

-members scarf or cushion (as long as you pick it up on certain days, at certain times)
-bumper sticker
-pin which usually breaks
-10% off crowmania purchases
????

and now they want ME to give them $200?? I would like to see some changes to membership entitlements before I even consider handing over $200.

 

[Crow-mo]

I don't know what to think about this. Why am I giving $200 donations and basically getting nothing in return for being a gold member. As a gold member what am I entitled to?

-members scarf or cushion (as long as you pick it up on certain days, at certain times)
-bumper sticker
-pin which usually breaks
-10% off crowmania purchases
????

and now they want ME to give them $200?? I would like to see some changes to membership entitlements before I even consider handing over $200.

I wonder how close to the mark this is. by which I mean, that if members were treated more like members I wonder if they would feel more engaged with the club?

 

[Allefgib]

I would. Like many I was incredibly annoyed with the 'inclusive' tag and then having to pay even more than just Gold membership to have a drop in invite to the after match functions.

 

[Niximus]

Just got a call from the club, they're still trying to flog these tickets. The girl told me that they haven't even sold half of them and are 'really struggling' - well no shit, you're asking people for $200 for what is effectively gambling!

 

[SydCrow]

I bought some for I think $50. No big deal - just say no.

Unless this is a key part of the club's funding - in which case we will be the next Norf!