Society/Culture Cultural appropriation

[Seeds]

Again, tell where I even hinted at any of that?

Best I never tell you to go skiing, you'd find a way to let that snowball into trying to skateboard over an active volcano.

You more then hinted at it right here.

It seems to be really mixed. Some sources say no, it's inappropriate to play one without permission from an elder or away from the tribal ground you got it from. Other sources actively sell authentic didgeridoos and offer classes on how to play them properly.

I suppose you could interpret someone who is an elder selling and teaching you how for money as permission, maybe. You'd probably have to confirm their authenticity, and that opens another whole barrel of worms entirely.

you only looked at indiginous elders or indiginous people making a profit from their sale as your source of authority on the matter. Rather then just thinking hey its nice music that people might enjoy therefore it’s a good thing to do.

 

[Gethelred]

You more then hinted at it right here.

Nope. I tried to answer a question asked, from the perspective that a) I was talking to adults, and b) through the lens of cultural appropriation. In order to answer a question, one does not need to agree with the assumptions that question makes.

Do I need to explain to you how to tie your shoes now, too?

you only looked at indiginous elders or indiginous people making a profit from their sale as your source of authority on the matter.

It's 'indigenous', and you're making an assumption; that all I looked at were aboriginal perspectives.

rather then just thinking hey its nice music that people might enjoy therefore it’s a good thing to do.

... not sure if serious/worth arguing with.

You've gone into this whole thing carrying assumptions, and the majority to all of them are wrong. Consider taking the time it takes to confirm someone actually holds the opinions you're attacking them for, instead of endangering your heart via accelerated blood presure.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I think anything that discriminâtes based on race is racism. Am I not correct?

Don't pretend your ridiculous arguments haven't been taken apart countless times already.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I think that, as long as you aren't using your appropriation to belittle the culture you're borrowing from, it's all okay. I'm Irish and I'm cool with everyone of every race and nationality being an Irish Drunk™ on March the 17th and getting celtic knotwork tattooed on various parts of their bodies that they can't remember getting applied.

Some might say that belittles the Irish but I don't. It's all good fun, and I like fun.

 

[Snake_Baker]

No one has the right to define anyone else's culture.

The entire argument collapses at this point.

 

[Seeds]

Don't pretend your ridiculous arguments haven't been taken apart countless times already.

deflection is obvious. I asked You if the definition of racism is correct or not?

i know you love debating definitions of words. Its kind of your thing.

 

[Seeds]

I think that, as long as you aren't using your appropriation to belittle the culture you're borrowing from, it's all okay. I'm Irish and I'm cool with everyone of every race and nationality being an Irish Drunk™ on March the 17th and getting celtic knotwork tattooed on various parts of their bodies that they can't remember getting applied.

Some might say that belittles the Irish but I don't. It's all good fun, and I like fun.

But here’s a problem with that thinking. Some think it belittles while you don’t. So what’s the right answer?

And let’s not even discuss what belittling of a culture means and who defines whose culture it is.

if I celebrate st Patrick’s day then isnt st patricks day part of my culture even though I’m not Irish. It may of started off Irish but it no longer is just part of irish peoples culture. Why do I have to speak to Irish people to see if I’m belittling their version of st Patrick’s day as I now have my own version which is independent of theirs?

if I want to play a digeridoo then doesnt that become part of my culture? Culture is not what your blood relatives did. It’s what you do today. It’s the way you to choose live.

 

[Snake_Baker]

deflection is obvious. I asked You if the definition of racism is correct or not?

i know you love debating definitions of words. Its kind of your thing.

Yes, he has a black belt in nit picking.

 

[FireKrakouer]

Again, tell where I even hinted at any of that?

Best I never tell you to go skiing, you'd find a way to let that snowball into trying to skateboard over an active volcano.

I apologise if I misinterpreted you. Would you consider it acceptable for a Caucasian guy in a band to play the didgeridoo? To me that is respectful and celebrating the culture if anything.

I'm reminded of crap like this:

Teenager’s Prom Dress Stirs Furor in U.S. — but Not in China (Published 2018)

After a Utah high school student wore a Chinese-style cheongsam, Asian-Americans’ reactions were blistering. But that perplexed many on the other side of the world.

www.nytimes.com

My opinion is that it is lunacy. Is it cultural appropriation that Asian businesspeople tend to wear western style suits and ties?

 

[Gethelred]

I apologise if I misinterpreted you. Would you consider it acceptable for a Caucasian guy in a band to play the didgeridoo? To me that is respectful and celebrating the culture if anything.

I'm reminded of crap like this:

Teenager’s Prom Dress Stirs Furor in U.S. — but Not in China (Published 2018)

After a Utah high school student wore a Chinese-style cheongsam, Asian-Americans’ reactions were blistering. But that perplexed many on the other side of the world.

www.nytimes.com

My opinion is that it is lunacy. Is it cultural appropriation that Asian businesspeople tend to wear western style suits and ties?

I think you'll find I don't care. I've better things to do with my time.

Having said that, I'm open to hearing from people who do. You clearly care about this, so consider this an opportunity missed to get me over to your side lost due to rudeness.

 

[FireKrakouer]

I think you'll find I don't care. I've better things to do with my time.

Having said that, I'm open to hearing from people who do. You clearly care about this, so consider this an opportunity missed to get me over to your side lost due to rudeness.

I have apologised. If you don't care, why do you continue to post in a thread dedicated to this very topic?

 

[Gethelred]

I have apologised. If you don't care, why do you continue to post in a thread dedicated to this very topic?

You asked me what I thought; it is common courtesy to respond to a question once asked.

 

[FireKrakouer]

You asked me what I thought; it is common courtesy to respond to a question once asked.

But you didn't answer the 2 questions asked. I was a dick last night, and usually appreciate your input. Up to you though if you wish to contribute to the discussion.

 

[Seeds]

H

I think you'll find I don't care. I've better things to do with my time.

Having said that, I'm open to hearing from people who do. You clearly care about this, so consider this an opportunity missed to get me over to your side lost due to rudeness.

How was this post rude? He even apologised (for what I have no idea).

 

[Seeds]

A culture is not owned by any race. Culture is a set of behaviours, traditions, music, art and food of a community of people at a point of time.

whatever you do today is your culture. It is not owned by other people. behaviours And music performed by your blood relatives is no more yours then any other persons on the planet. It’s only yours if you carry out those actions yourselves and even then you don’t get to control who else embraces those cultural behaviours.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

deflection is obvious. I asked You if the definition of racism is correct or not?

i know you love debating definitions of words. Its kind of your thing.

Yes, we've all heard your ridiculous arguments about what constitutes racism.

For example, if a kid from a wealthy family inherits their parents' money, that's "racism"? Even though it's got nothing to do with race. It's simply a function of private wealth. It can be inherited, rather than being seized by the government, which is your inexplicable "solution".

And you call that "racism" because you're simply too inarticulate and confused to formulate a more accurate argument about your objections.

How long before you start waffling about Bayesian reasoning, hoping it makes you sound like less of a dropkick?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Yes, he has a black belt in nit picking.

Like you have a black belt in photo shop?

 

[FireKrakouer]

H

How was this post rude? He even apologised (for what I have no idea).

Thanks, but I woke up feeling like a dick for over simplifying his argument.

A culture is not owned by any race. Culture is a set of behaviours, traditions, music, art and food of a community of people at a point of time.

whatever you do today is your culture. It is not owned by other people. behaviours And music performed by your blood relatives is no more yours then any other persons on the planet. It’s only yours if you carry out those actions yourselves and even then you don’t get to control who else embraces those cultural behaviours.

I would tend to agree, but to take this to an extreme... If I videotaped myself in traditional indigenous paint and playing the didgeridoo in a shitty, mocking fashion, that would not be cool either right?

I think we should all come together and share each other's customs in a respectful way. This is why the Maoris allow white people to do the Hakka, they just ask that we do it properly if we do so (and that females can recite the words but the not the actions, but that's a whole other issue).

 

[Seeds]

Thanks, but I woke up feeling like a dick for over simplifying his argument.

I would tend to agree, but to take this to an extreme... If I videotaped myself in traditional indigenous paint and playing the didgeridoo in a shitty, mocking fashion, that would not be cool either right?

I think we should all come together and share each other's customs in a respectful way. This is why the Maoris allow white people to do the Hakka, they just ask that we do it properly if we do so (and that females can recite the words but the not the actions, but that's a whole other issue).

Yep dont make fun of other groups of people.

but here’s the thing the woke dont get. Whether someone is belittling a group of people isn’t determined by the group of people who think they are or aren’t being belittled. It’s only determined by the intent of the person performing the action. If that person intends it to belittle then it’s wrong. If they don’t intend it to belittle then it isn’t Belittling. All we have is a misunderstanding.

i don’t need to ask permission from anyone else to play a digeridoo. All I have to ask is am I going to play this to deliberately mock a group of people? If the answer is no then that’s the only permission I need. Thé permission of my own intent.

 

[Seeds]

Yes, we've all heard your ridiculous arguments about what constitutes racism.

For example, if a kid from a wealthy family inherits their parents' money, that's "racism"? Even though it's got nothing to do with race. It's simply a function of private wealth. It can be inherited, rather than being seized by the government, which is your inexplicable "solution".

And you call that "racism" because you're simply too inarticulate and confused to formulate a more accurate argument about your objections.

How long before you start waffling about Bayesian reasoning, hoping it makes you sound like less of a dropkick?

That’s not what we were discussing here. What was wrong with what I said here In this thread?

on that topic you are discussing above you are partially right I was lazy and not sufficiently articulate. it’s not a function of race but a far more narrow subset of bloodlines. My point is more I hate discrimination based on bloodlines of which racism is only a broad subset of. But for some reason people think racism is thé big bad bogey and not the other bloodline discriminations so I used racism as a proxy cos it has impact. Racism is only wrong cos it discriminates based on an irrelevant thing such as genès. Family bloodline discrimimation is exactly the same.

in any case this is irrelevant to what I said in this thread. Can we focus on that. Was my definition of racism incorrect and if so why?

 

[utility]

i don’t need to ask permission from anyone else to play a digeridoo. All I have to ask is am I going to play this to deliberately mock a group of people? If the answer is no then that’s the only permission I need.

You don't have to ask for any permission.

It's not illegal to be a prick.

 

[Seeds]

You don't have to ask for any permission.

It's not illegal to be a prick.

what does that even mean? Can we please elevate ourselves above using vague nonsensical bad words when we don’t like reasoning but can’t explain why? They are not a valid response.

ps. Apologies if I misinterpreted your post.

 

[utility]

what does that even mean? Can we please elevate ourselves above using vague nonsensical bad words when we don’t like reasoning but can’t explain why? They are not a valid response.

ps. Apologies if I misinterpreted your post.

I did not use the term 'prick' in personal reference to you.

You, or I, do not need to seek permission to mock, deride or belittle people (so as long as it is not in contravention with the law).

To paraphrase Blackstone, laws define rights and wrongs. In a society with a right to free speech then we have the right to be offensive. It does not mean we are acting in a moral manner. IMO it is critical that people have a right to free speech, else other freedoms will be abused by government by curtailing speech.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

That’s not what we were discussing here. What was wrong with what I said here In this thread?

The point is that you have a history of expanding the definition of "racism" beyond what is reasonable.

on that topic you are discussing above you are partially right I was lazy and not sufficiently articulate. it’s not a function of race but a far more narrow subset of bloodlines. My point is more I hate discrimination based on bloodlines of which racism is only a broad subset of. But for some reason people think racism is thé big bad bogey and not the other bloodline discriminations so I used racism as a proxy cos it has impact. Racism is only wrong cos it discriminates based on an irrelevant thing such as genès. Family bloodline discrimimation is exactly the same.

Inheritance has nothing to do with race. To call it racism is absurd, and is an example of your disorganised thinking.

in any case this is irrelevant to what I said in this thread. Can we focus on that. Was my definition of racism incorrect and if so why?

See above.

Your latest dumb argument is that, in this case as it pertains to Australia's indigenous population, drawing a connection between people, culture and experience is also "racism".

 

[Snake_Baker]

You don't have to ask for any permission.

It's not illegal to be a prick.

I'm more concerned that you are hostile about someone else's free expression.