Cummins Overrated?

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Around the Wicket said:
He doesn't have the Glenn McGrath aura about him who imo is the best I've ever watched but Cummins is one of the best of his era, pretty weak era though imo.
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hard to compare but I'd argue that McGrath overall bowled on better wickets (in terms of more for bowlers)
but I'd also argue that the standard of batting opposition quality in mcgrath's era was better so it probably balances out.
 
apollo_creed said:
hard to compare but I'd argue that McGrath overall bowled on better wickets (in terms of more for bowlers)
but I'd also argue that the standard of batting opposition quality in mcgrath's era was better so it probably balances out.
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Your kidding right? Last 5-10 years have been historically the best bowling wickets in decades, early 2000's there was a epidemic of roads in Tests, don't believe me? Look at the scorecards.
 

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Around the Wicket said:
Your kidding right? Last 5-10 years have been historically the best bowling wickets in decades, early 2000's there was a epidemic of roads in Tests, don't believe me? Look at the scorecards.
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Yeah agree that from the early 2000s or so the wickets here got very flat. Not all of McGrath’s career though.

Our wickets here are still flat. Batting is just generally shit.
 
has come through in some good moments. don't think he should move up the order though like some of the columns around the place are hinting. it's only in place of someone like starc at test level anyway, so 9 to 8. the arse could easily drop out of his batting again.
 
dumb said:
has come through in some good moments. don't think he should move up the order though like some of the columns around the place are hinting. it's only in place of someone like starc at test level anyway, so 9 to 8. the arse could easily drop out of his batting again.
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Even then I wouldn't. Starc averages more at 8 at test level than Cummins and more than he does at 9. Cummins is the reverse. Just makes sense to have them that way.
 

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Young Redleg said:
I don't think we've had a tailender as clutch with the bat as Cummins is
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Warnie was pretty good, don’t know if he was as reliable as Cummins and probably suffered a bit in that he was more ‘talented’ so it often looked like he could have been better than he ended up being.

For a whole generation and a half really, it wasn’t all that common for them to have to be very clutch as such because for most of them the most pressure they were under was helping a senior partner to a landmark here and there with the odd shaky low total chase.

Dizzy was good for propping up an end, Lee was always very handy with the bat.
 
Power Raid said:
how many Australian players, post WW2, have a strike rate in the 40s with so many wickets?
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Starc. Pattinson had a SR in the 40's too.
 
The thing with Cummins and his batting, and I think the same can be said of his bowling, is that he's not much of a "fill your boots" kind of player. When things are going his teams way he doesn't pile on with wickets and runs. He really lifts when the team needs him and takes the big wickets or the clutch runs.

If he comes in at 7 for 450 he's little chance to get runs. 7 for 120 and he'll dig in and get some important runs or even steer the team home. Same bowling, if it's 5-60 he might take 1 wicket while the other guys pile on the wickets. But if it's getting tight late or there's a big partnership then he's basically a lock to take the big wickets to break the game open. Happens time and again.

I'd love for him to get more cheap wickets/runs and pad out his stats a bit but you can't complain about a guy who performs his best when the team needs his best and when the team is performing well takes a back seat.

Makes for a good captain imo, let the boys fill the boots when the gettings good, but when it's tough you lead the pack and show the way.
 
Power Raid said:
Yep, Starc is very much under rated despite this achievement
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I think because of his apparent lack of ability to tidy 4th innings up. In some of the poor 4th innings we've had he's been amongst the worst offenders which has made it somewhat easy to overlook is overall great record. Also in his early Aus career he did often go through patches of bowling poorly in between great spells/balls leading to lots of the Warne criticism. That reputation has lingered.

He certainly doesn't get the broader respect he deserves but there are chinks in that great record.
 
Coops93 said:
I think because of his apparent lack of ability to tidy 4th innings up. In some of the poor 4th innings we've had he's been amongst the worst offenders which has made it somewhat easy to overlook is overall great record. Also in his early Aus career he did often go through patches of bowling poorly in between great spells/balls leading to lots of the Warne criticism. That reputation has lingered.

He certainly doesn't get the broader respect he deserves but there are chinks in that great record.
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Yeah, Mitchell Starc's bowling average in the 4th innings of a match is actually better than his average in the first three innings. His strike rate is 48.4 in the 4th innings, only bettered by the first innings, which is 47.3.

But yeah, because Warnie was a legend, his opinion has stuck.
 
PhatBoy said:
Warnie was pretty good, don’t know if he was as reliable as Cummins and probably suffered a bit in that he was more ‘talented’ so it often looked like he could have been better than he ended up being.

For a whole generation and a half really, it wasn’t all that common for them to have to be very clutch as such because for most of them the most pressure they were under was helping a senior partner to a landmark here and there with the odd shaky low total chase.

Dizzy was good for propping up an end, Lee was always very handy with the bat.
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they were handy and could argue the order 8,9,10 with warne, gillespie, lee depending on the situation.

a far cry from the likes of reid, rackemann, alderman and whitney.
 

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