D4 D4 2008

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Red Gum said:
MacNessa said:
Your to kind. :eek: quote]

You're not too kind to our language. (Happy Pan?)
I was going to pick it up but I'm afraid I'm becoming the grammar nazi and I really can't be bothered and I'm not that worried if people stuff up on the internet. It should be pretty informal.

I only brought up Waz's apostrophes because they would be engraved and if I ever go to Centrals (Unlikely) or BHN (V. Unlikely) it would bug me that the trophies didn't have apostrophes. In fact even if I wasn't at those clubs it would bug me... but that's my problem and I will deal with it.

:confused:--GOOSE--:confused:
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MacNessa said:
And the big 2 of the round:
SFX Vs MtLily:
SFX enjoy a good homeground advantage down in Berwick and Kew don't travel well so I'm not getting over-excited by their win last week. That said their a good team and have a real competitive streak. They didn't just beat Kew they demolished them. MtLily have welcomed some talent back and will enjoy that their hosting. I reckon itll be SFX in a tight one. Maybe they can get the Pope to lead a World Youth Day prayer to their success. 5 points.
AP Vs Kew:
As I said above the boys in brown and gold don't travel well. AP have an advantage on there land by the lake, but both these sides play small grounds well so if anyone's suited to knocking off AP at home its Kew. Horne has been in great form, even in the loss against SFX but he needs help. When McDermott stood up Kew beat the best, when he was goal-less they got rolled by SFX. Kew will have to play well as a team to get up but I think they can do it. They'll be smarting from the treatment they got last week and keen to make a statement. AP will be very competitive but finals look nearly assured and while they won't want to lose they don't need it as much as Kew. 13 point win to the visitors.

Reserves:
NB, EP, WB, Centrals, SFX, Kew.
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What are you talking about, if AP get up they keep open the double chance, Kew look assured of a top 3 finish, surely AP have more to play for this week & they are playing on their home ground
your a sharp reader of the play macca
 

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Did anyone read the VAFA ceo's comments in the record last night having a good dig about the uncomepetitive nature of D4 footy because there is no relegation.
I thought it was a bit tough on D4 and showed how little D4 footy is actually watched by the chief.
Interested to see the thoughts of those around d4
 
plugger28 said:
Did anyone read the VAFA ceo's comments in the record last night having a good dig about the uncomepetitive nature of D4 footy because there is no relegation.
I thought it was a bit tough on D4 and showed how little D4 footy is actually watched by the chief.
Interested to see the thoughts of those around d4
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Agree Plugger - I wonder how many games the CEO has attended to make such comments?
A slap in the face for those at all clubs that work hard to put a team on the park.

:thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:
 
plugger28 said:
Did anyone read the VAFA ceo's comments in the record last night having a good dig about the uncomepetitive nature of D4 footy because there is no relegation.
I thought it was a bit tough on D4 and showed how little D4 footy is actually watched by the chief.
Interested to see the thoughts of those around d4
Click to expand...

I agree with Sholly that without the fear of relegation what incentive is there for bottom clubs to try? However unless a d5 is introduced you will always have this problem in D4. The fact that the fianl 5 is set with five weeks to go means that there will be a lot of meaningless games towards the end of the year.
 
As every VAFA supporter is aware it is the relegation
and promotion system that sets the VAFA apart from
most other competitions. However in D4 relegation
doesn’t cause an issue and it is for this reason that the
competition does at times lack that competitiveness.

Over the last couple of weeks we have seen some major
upsets throughout all sections because of the relegation
system. To name just a few Blacks rolled Old Xavs,
MHSOB beat Hampton Rovers, Yarra Valley beat
Prahran and the D1 relegation match between
Peninsula and Aquinas must have been a beauty with 2
points separating them at the end of the game.
Unfortunately in our lowest division, D4, this
motivation can be lacking causing the biggest
discrepancies in scores.

Over the last couple of seasons we have had a number
of clubs join the competition and all do so through this
level. This season we introduced St Francis Xavier from
Beaconsfield, the year before Sth Mornington and
before that Mt Lilydale. It has become clear that any
new clubs to the Association are probably going to
come from the growth suburbs of Melbourne which are
more than thirty kilometers from the CBD.

This will put increasing strain on the clubs in D4 as
they have to travel long distances to play each week.
This has been made the more difficult by the increased
prices in fuel recently.

The other fact is that with the introduction of new
teams, we have extended the D4 competition to 12
sides. By nature the more teams the bigger discrepancy
between top and bottom. Therefore without the
relegation should D4 have the most number of teams?

There are a number of teams in D4 who seem content
to play for recreational purposes whilst others are keen
to progress. Certainly the VAFA Football subcommittee
will discuss the make up of the D3/D4
sections at the conclusion of the season.

In spite of what is stated above, a great win by St Francis
Xavier last week against Kew has livened up the top
section of the ladder. In this section we are playing a
final five so to finish in the top 3 is vital. The five seems
set but the jostling of positions is what will make it
interesting. Hopefully we can see an upset in the last
five matches however without the threat of relegation I
think it is highly unlikely.
 
SUDDS MCDUFF said:
I agree with Sholly that without the fear of relegation what incentive is there for bottom clubs to try? However unless a d5 is introduced you will always have this problem in D4. The fact that the fianl 5 is set with five weeks to go means that there will be a lot of meaningless games towards the end of the year.
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Following that logic D5 games become meaningless towards the end of the year - there has to be a last division somewhere.

I can tell you now that the arguement that just because there is no threat of relegation that teams don't try to get off the bottom of the ladder is utter rubbish. No-one wants to finish last. I played my last senior game of footy last year in the Bulleen Cobras vs North Brunswick game in Round 18 and it was one of the most fiercely competitive games I've played in - although we were doomed to last place we wanted to make sure we finished the season with a win. Ditto North Brunswick. We squeeked home by three points in what was genuinely a highlight of my football career.
 
What a load of tripe.

Sholly is a genuine goose.

As for Sudds' comment: "However unless a d5 is introduced you will always have this problem in D4." - Then you are just passing on this 'perceived' problem to the hypothetical D5. Perhaps think before you speak next time.

This year has been the most even in D4 of the 3 seasons I've played - there's an upset most weeks - and the 4 sides who've gone up to D3 in the past 2 years have all performed well there and do not look like coming back down.

Perhaps some people ie Michael Sholly, could actually spend some time away from the opulent surrounds of Elsternick and make his way out to one of the D4 grounds that is putting 'increasing strain on the clubs' and gather some perspective.
 

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Has some valid points but what do ya do???

We know we always play it tough and hard, and yes, some blokes may start to slacken off on the training track, but once we cross the white line its always "on"......................
 
Rusty Brookes said:
Following that logic D5 games become meaningless towards the end of the year - there has to be a last division somewhere.

I can tell you now that the arguement that just because there is no threat of relegation that teams don't try to get off the bottom of the ladder is utter rubbish. No-one wants to finish last. I played my last senior game of footy last year in the Bulleen Cobras vs North Brunswick game in Round 18 and it was one of the most fiercely competitive games I've played in - although we were doomed to last place we wanted to make sure we finished the season with a win. Ditto North Brunswick. We squeeked home by three points in what was genuinely a highlight of my football career.
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I played in that game and quite a few others this year. i am yet to come accross anyone in D4 that isn't trying their hardest. i know my boys will be giving 100% this week against WB, and who knows it is two teams playing it only takes a small thing to create an upset. (come on cobras!!!)
I think that often in d4 clubs coming into the section from outside create a difficulty. i remember when Rupertswood came in, they were a class above and have proved that by progressing up to c grade almost unhindered. Very few sides have done that.
I am really disappointed that the CEO is making such comments and i really think we should be heard on this issue.
 
Reading between the lines on the last paragraph, is he hinting towards a re-structure of D3 / D4.....perhaps kicking the last 2 clubs out of the comp???? As I re-read it, there are hints all over the article that they are obviously unhappy with the results on D4, yet Impressed with those "growth corrodore" teams.........

Perhaps a compulsory move to Club 18's is on the agenda?

Something is fishy and it's not my socks......
 
Lakey11 said:
Reading between the lines on the last paragraph, is he hinting towards a re-structure of D3 / D4.....perhaps kicking the last 2 clubs out of the comp???? As I re-read it, there are hints all over the article that they are obviously unhappy with the results on D4, yet Impressed with those "growth corrodore" teams.........

Perhaps a compulsory move to Club 18's is on the agenda?

Something is fishy and it's not my socks......
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More likely a 12 team D3 with 3 Up and 3 Down each season.

This Sholly bloke is a absolute TOOL! Teams are in D4 for a reason!
 
Lakey11 said:
Reading between the lines on the last paragraph, is he hinting towards a re-structure of D3 / D4.....perhaps kicking the last 2 clubs out of the comp???? As I re-read it, there are hints all over the article that they are obviously unhappy with the results on D4, yet Impressed with those "growth corrodore" teams.........

Perhaps a compulsory move to Club 18's is on the agenda?

Something is fishy and it's not my socks......
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If there was a compulsory move to Club 18s, you'd effectively kill off the two clubs relegated. Half the blokes would not be able to get a game as you'd only be fielding one side resulting in blokes walking. Sponsors would potentially drop off.

To me what this boils down to is a real lack of understanding from Sholley on the pressures and challenges facing D4 (and D3) clubs. It's no coincidence that the majority of clubs in the lower divisions of the VAFA are suburban clubs as opposed to clubs linked with schools. We don't have that additional resource that we can rely both in terms of money and players. We can't wave our school tie and offer employment and schooling for player's kids to entice top talent to play at our clubs. One of the KPI's we set at Bulleen this year was to make sure we could field a full seniors and reserves side each week. We've done that because we did recruit a large number of players - they are mainly young kids who are a keen for a game of footy. I'll be honest there are some blokes playing for us whose level of talent isn't that high (and I'm firmly in that group). But just because we aren't the most talented group of footballers around doesn't mean we should be denied the right to compete in an organised comp and it doesn't mean that we don't give 100% each time we go out on the ground.
 
Rusty Brookes said:
If there was a compulsory move to Club 18s, you'd effectively kill off the two clubs relegated. Half the blokes would not be able to get a game as you'd only be fielding one side resulting in blokes walking. Sponsors would potentially drop off.

To me what this boils down to is a real lack of understanding from Sholley on the pressures and challenges facing D4 (and D3) clubs. It's no coincidence that the majority of clubs in the lower divisions of the VAFA are suburban clubs as opposed to clubs linked with schools. We don't have that additional resource that we can rely both in terms of money and players. We can't wave our school tie and offer employment and schooling for player's kids to entice top talent to play at our clubs. One of the KPI's we set at Bulleen this year was to make sure we could field a full seniors and reserves side each week. We've done that because we did recruit a large number of players - they are mainly young kids who are a keen for a game of footy. I'll be honest there are some blokes playing for us whose level of talent isn't that high (and I'm firmly in that group). But just because we aren't the most talented group of footballers around doesn't mean we should be denied the right to compete in an organised comp and it doesn't mean that we don't give 100% each time we go out on the ground.
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Spot on Rusty. I think Mr Sholley has forgotten the grass roots......and the reason for the competition in the first place.

The whole amateur concept is about sportsmanship and having a go'

Once this is lost, it will be like every other competition relying on $$$ and underhanded dealings to thrive, rather than the love of the sport, being competitive for the sake of it and building a great club with your mates. Would be a shame.....
 
Being a player for Syndal this year, I find these remarks are very hard to take. In fact, there is a feeling amongst some that these remarks are simply aimed at one club who haven’t won a game this year. To have a bloke who has been chosen to represent the league, say that your club isn't there to play for the beliefs of the league and pretty much suggest that the team isn’t trying is a joke. Over the past 3 weeks alone (with the season well and truly written off) we have had blokes that take the field with knees that hurt so much they cant walk during the week, players with hands that are so badly broken they need surgery, and blokes getting knocked out during the game yet insisting on getting taped up to take the field if they are needed, all give as much as they can to try and get a win on the board. If that Sholly bloke could be bothered coming down to a match he would see 22 blokes who have given it their all, walk off the ground shattered, and sit in silence in the rooms devastated after another loss. Everyone has poor years, just a real shame that the head honcho of the league can sit there and rub salt into a wound.
 
u12superstar said:
Being a player for Syndal this year, I find these remarks are very hard to take. In fact, there is a feeling amongst some that these remarks are simply aimed at one club who haven’t won a game this year. To have a bloke who has been chosen to represent the league, say that your club isn't there to play for the beliefs of the league and pretty much suggest that the team isn’t trying is a joke. Over the past 3 weeks alone (with the season well and truly written off) we have had blokes that take the field with knees that hurt so much they cant walk during the week, players with hands that are so badly broken they need surgery, and blokes getting knocked out during the game yet insisting on getting taped up to take the field if they are needed, all give as much as they can to try and get a win on the board. If that Sholly bloke could be bothered coming down to a match he would see 22 blokes who have given it their all, walk off the ground shattered, and sit in silence in the rooms devastated after another loss. Everyone has poor years, just a real shame that the head honcho of the league can sit there and rub salt into a wound.
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Good cll U12......

You blokes are in the same position as centrals a few years ago. Chin up and hard work will turn it around for you guys quick enough......
 
I can tell you that Syndal despite having not won a game this year is still trying like hell to field our best side and at training last night we were all talking about the importance of winning a game this season and not for fear of relegation but a whole host of other important reasons, not the least of which being that teams that dont win games lose players, teams with no players dont usually stick around. I think it would be fair to say that most blokes playing D4 footy do it because we love playing footy, not for glory, not for cash, not because its the number 1 goal in our life to be the best footballer in the universe, thus the article was inherintly flawed from the start, at D4 blokes miss games through prior commitments, this doesn't happen in alot of other levels imagine an A grade B&F player telling his coach i'm unavailable this week cause i have birthday to attend etc etc, personally i like playing at this level because everyone is playing for love of the game, whoever wrote the article can stick fair up their a** because i would rather take the field every week with you blokes who write on this forum and love playing footy but do have personal lives outside of it. I'm not having a dig at higher grades by any means, they are better footballers than us, but my point is D4 footy has its place without it most blokes with other commitments (eg jobs, family, secret mistresses to keep happy) wouldn't get to have a run and enjoy themselves.
 
The "Fear of Relegation" hasn't seemed to make much of an impact on these higher level clubs this year:

Whitefriars (C - 2-11)
Yarra Valley (D1 - 2-11)
Aquinas (D1 2-11)
St Mary's (D2 2-11)
Swinburne (D3 1-12)

Or Kew last year (D3 1-17)
 
And another thing....

The quality of any league relies on its depth. If a bunch of D4 clubs went belly up, there wouldn't be any relegation in D3? Then they would have nothing to play for either... The league needs to support the teams at the wrong end of the table... allow us to grow by:

reducing the association fees for D4 clubs (especially as we're travelling more than anyone else, get crappier umpires, play on crappier grounds and hence sustain more injuries. We ask for less membership money, can't sell a footy record for anything other than $0, etc... etc...)
 
bigwaz said:
The "Fear of Relegation" hasn't seemed to make much of an impact on these higher level clubs this year:

Whitefriars (C - 2-11)
Yarra Valley (D1 - 2-11)
Aquinas (D1 2-11)
St Mary's (D2 2-11)
Swinburne (D3 1-12)

Or Kew last year (D3 1-17)
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Was.

You are always going to have bottom sides in each grade. The clubs you have listed bar swinburne are all a chance to stay up if they win the required games. They have something to play for as they can still stay in the grade they are currently in. The fear of relegation may see these teams roll a few sides higher than them to stay alive.
 
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