Player Watch Darcy Fogarty

How many goals will Darcy Fogarty kick in 2023?

  • Total voters
    129
  • Poll closed .

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Scorpus said:
So why does everyone acknowledge Thilthorpe is a better player than Himmelberg (now and/or on potential)?
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Because he was a #1 draft pick and the last time he played a game was barely 21 years old. Their output is pretty similar though.

Scorpus said:
There is more to someone's game than raw goal output. That's why Fogarty (and Thilthorpe) are being selected ahead of Himmelberg, because the quality of the player and their output is superior

Of course, goals are important, if you don't kick them as a forward you are toast. Fogarty does pretty much everything better than Himmelberg even over the last 22 games

One area would be score involvements. Fogarty has kicked more goals and had 24% more score involvements. You say Fogarty has had concrete hands lately. 68% more marks inside 50 over that period. About 4x the number of inside 50 tackles. 38% more shots at goal. 67% more goal assists. 15% more effective kicks. He's even managed slightly more inside 50s despite apparently not being able to do anything up the ground.

So no, Fogarty is not performing at the level of Himmelberg even though he's currently below his best
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FOG also has the advantage of consistency. He has played 40 of the last 42 possible games for the Crows. Himmelberg has played 41 games across the past 6 seasons for us.

Percentages are great, but look at the numbers over the past 22 games:

Fog 25 goals
Berg 22 goals

Fogs Marks inside 50 last 22 games - 31
Himmelbergs Marks Inside 50 last 22 games - 19

Fogs Tackles inside 50 - 32
Bergs Tackles inside 50 - 7
*not sure how a key forward tackling inside 50 is a good thing

Fogs Score Involvements - 105
Bergs Score Involvements - 85

You really telling me that if we had to play Himmelberg over FOG's for the past 22 games and lost the 13 marks inside 50, 3 more goals and 20 score involvements it would have had a negative affect on our team? (not to mention Himmelberg gives away less free kicks and helps in the ruck with hitouts).

Just to clarify - I don't want himmelberg in the side.
 
AFC979810 said:
You really telling me that if we had to play Himmelberg over FOG's for the past 22 games and lost the 13 marks inside 50, 3 more goals and 20 score involvements it would have had a negative affect on our team? (not to mention Himmelberg gives away less free kicks and helps in the ruck with hitouts).
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Yes?

Playing the worse player with worse output does have a negative effect generally
 

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AFC979810 said:
Isn't that what FOG is now?

88 Games of AFL footy, 7 preseasons, and in the leadership group.

You are more than willing to stick the boot into poor old leadership Murphy, but rather quite when old golden man child puts in an absolute stinker.
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Well for starters Fog has actually shown what he can produce. Pretty sure Murphy is not comparable at all.
 
George Kramer said:
Fog should be doing better but he has played better footy than Murphy ever will and plays in a lot harder position than what Murphy.
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Yeah - Murphy sucks. But a 6 possession 2 kick game like FOG had against Carlton screams Lachie Murphy. Add this to his pretty poor form over the past 21 games and it is a worrying trend.

George Kramer said:
He also was crucial in setting up that Cook goal, which would we know Murphy would have sprayed.
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Yeah - but he also cost us the game (at least any chance of winning) against Geelong when he sprayed a kick from the goal square that even Murphy would have kicked.


George Kramer said:
I’m also more tolerant of players that I see have the ability to be critical to our teams success going forward.
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I expect more out of the more talented players.

George Kramer said:
I find it weird you’re devoting so much energy into bagging him the last 12 months and yet you defend average mediocre players in Mackay, it’s a rather odd sense of priorities.
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It's been the last 24 months I have been critical of Fogarty.

And you do realize that Mackay hasn't played for the Crows in almost 3 years? Pretty hard to defend a player in 2024 who hasn't put the boots on since 2021.

For someone who is so critical of the club and everything to do with it - its just surprising that someone in the leadership group can cost us a game against Geelong and then put in such a pathetic performance against Carlton and be above harsh criticism.
 
AFC979810 said:
Interesting.

So the Adelaide Football Club has won 8 and lost 14 over the past 22 games.

We replace FOG with Himmelberg and what's our record (hint - its probably 8 wins and 22 losses).
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You didn't make any claims about wins or losses, only about negative effect on the team

You're welcome to make the claim that playing worse players is actually good or neutral for the team though. It's a weird position I won't agree with, but you're welcome to claim that
 
AFC979810 said:
It's been the last 24 months I have been critical of Fogarty.
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Ok, so what is your suggestion?

Put it down in simple terms.

What should we do with Fog right now.
What should we do with Fog for the rest of this season.
What should we do with Fog at the end of the season.
What trade would you accept for him.

Your contention is that he is not up to it - he’s a liability, so don’t include any “if he finds form” back doors.
 
I'm not going to be too critical of Fog's slow start to the year given that our ball movement was so utterly sh*t prior to the Carlton game that none of our forwards had much of a chance. One thing I will say, though, is that his kicking has been way off what we have come to expect from previous seasons. He's always been a pretty low-numbers kind of player. But his kicking was such that he didn't need a huge amount of the ball because you could count on him to make the most of his chances.

This year his kicking has been pretty average... I think this year he's kicked 4.4? If he's going to go at 50% accuracy, he'll want to be getting more of the ball to have a few more shots.
 
kirky said:
Well for starters Fog has actually shown what he can produce. Pretty sure Murphy is not comparable at all.
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As a supporter doesn't that make FOG's performances worse?

Murphy is an unathletic hack. We shouldn't be shocked by his lack of performance.

Fog has shown he can be a legit #1 dominant forward. Thats why his 6 possession disaster against Carlton was so bad.
 
AFC979810 said:
As a supporter doesn't that make FOG's performances worse?

Murphy is an unathletic hack. We shouldn't be shocked by his lack of performance.

Fog has shown he can be a legit #1 dominant forward. Thats why his 6 possession disaster against Carlton was so bad.
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Which player should we be playing ahead of him and why?
 
baldandbroke said:
Ok, so what is your suggestion?

Put it down in simple terms.
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Get him a better psychologist. He credit his psychologist for his form turnaround in early 2023. Its mental with him - fix it.

baldandbroke said:
What should we do with Fog right now.
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Play him.

baldandbroke said:
What should we do with Fog for the rest of this season.
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Play him.

baldandbroke said:
What should we do with Fog at the end of the season.
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Keep him - he is contracted until 2025.

baldandbroke said:
What trade would you accept for him.
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Whats offered?

baldandbroke said:
Your contention is that he is not up to it - he’s a liability, so don’t include any “if he finds form” back doors.
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My contention is that his form over the past 22 games hasn't been good. His performance against Carlton was very very bad and not befitting of one who is in the leadership group. His shank against Geelong potentially cost us 4 points.

His best is easily good enough. His first 4 rounds of 2023 he showed how good he can be.

We don't have any options and we have far worse players in our 22 to get rid of (McHenry in particular).
 

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FR0GGY said:
Which player should we be playing ahead of him and why?
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We don't have anyone.

The only 2 options to replace him are Himmelberg and Burgess.

Jarman3 said:
I'm not going to be too critical of Fog's slow start to the year given that our ball movement was so utterly sh*t prior to the Carlton game that none of our forwards had much of a chance. One thing I will say, though, is that his kicking has been way off what we have come to expect from previous seasons. He's always been a pretty low-numbers kind of player. But his kicking was such that he didn't need a huge amount of the ball because you could count on him to make the most of his chances.

This year his kicking has been pretty average... I think this year he's kicked 4.4? If he's going to go at 50% accuracy, he'll want to be getting more of the ball to have a few more shots.
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It ain't just the first 5 games of 2024. It all started after he had the best 4 games of his life and then he mentally shat the bed (IMO):

First 66 games - 98.38.

Last 22 games - 25.22
 
Fog's double fend off goal last year, I'm sure any player we pick up could do that... Same with hitting up cook, you think Himmelberg would do that under that pressure at that stage of the game?

20 more score involvements and 13 more marks inside 50... Are you seriously suggesting this has no impact? Himmelberg is an absolute momentum killer, Fog is the total opposite.

Fogarty might not be as good as we hoped, but you need quality B graders in your side.
 
Afcprophet said:
Fog's double fend off goal last year, I'm sure any player we pick up could do that... Same with hitting up cook, you think Himmelberg would do that under that pressure at that stage of the game?
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Would Himmelberg have missed from the goal square costing us the Geelong game?

Afcprophet said:
20 more score involvements and 13 more marks inside 50... Are you seriously suggesting this has no impact? Himmelberg is an absolute momentum killer, Fog is the total opposite.
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Score Involvements are an absolute nothing stat. Lachlan Murphy had 111 score involvements in 2023 and FOG had 114.

So yeah - I am saying that if we took out FOG and put in Himmelberg - his 20 extra score involvements and his 13 extra marks inside 50 for 3 goals extra would not have moved the needle that much...

Afcprophet said:
Fogarty might not be as good as we hoped, but you need quality B graders in your side.
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Absolutely. But he could and should be an A-grader.
 
AFC979810 said:
As a supporter doesn't that make FOG's performances worse?

Murphy is an unathletic hack. We shouldn't be shocked by his lack of performance.

Fog has shown he can be a legit #1 dominant forward. Thats why his 6 possession disaster against Carlton was so bad.
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Well if he is a hack, how has he got to 100 games.

We know that Fog's performances can improve and probably will.

As I said, Fog in the team helps the team’s structure. We can only have one of McHenry or Murphy in the team. Preferably neither however that doesn’t appear the way our selectors think.
 
kirky said:
Well if he is a hack, how has he got to 100 games.
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Thats a great question.

Probably the same way our hack of a coach is going to get to 100 games.

kirky said:
We know that Fog's performances can improve and probably will.
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Well we don't know that they probably will. We know that they should.

kirky said:
As I said, Fog in the team helps the team’s structure. We can only have one of McHenry or Murphy in the team. Preferably neither however that doesn’t appear the way our selectors think.
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Did you just answer your original question?
 
AFC979810 said:
Get him a better psychologist. He credit his psychologist for his form turnaround in early 2023. Its mental with him - fix it.



Play him.



Play him.



Keep him - he is contracted until 2025.



Whats offered?



My contention is that his form over the past 22 games hasn't been good. His performance against Carlton was very very bad and not befitting of one who is in the leadership group. His shank against Geelong potentially cost us 4 points.

His best is easily good enough. His first 4 rounds of 2023 he showed how good he can be.

We don't have any options and we have far worse players in our 22 to get rid of (McHenry in particular).
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So why have you got dozens of posts about him in the last few weeks then? Because you think Ned is getting a rough deal on BF?
 
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