Nah, Murphy has delivered those difficult inside 50 kicks and kicked very difficult goals before but miss a lot a lot a lot more easy inside 50 kicks and very easy goals.
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Player Watch Darcy Fogarty
- Thread starter Deaneus!
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Himmelberg has had the advantage of having players like Fogarty in the side to take away the better defenders.
Fogarty has exceeded Himmelberg's output while playing on stronger defenders.
Key forwards tackling inside 50 is an excellent thing, not sure why you would downplay that. Especially when we're talking about Fogarty getting nearly 5x as many!
- Nov 5, 2009
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Look - FOG is the better option and his output is better, but its not by much. I stand by the fact that our side would be no better or no worse if we had Himmelberg in the side these past 22 games.
Fog isnt in the side to be laying tackles. You want your key forwards kicking goals.
Fogs end to the season 22 and first 4 games of 2023 were very very good.
In those 8 games he kicked 26 goals, 10 behinds, had 54 marks and laid only 10 tackles. He also only gave away 5 free kicks during those 8 games.
In the next 22 games he has kicked 25 goals, 22 behinds for 89 marks. He laid 47 tackles and gave away 28 free kicks.
When FOG is at his best - he aint tackling. He is marking the ball and kicking goals. When he is mentally off - he struggles to get separation and plays from behind.
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On BF?
Southerntakeover
Too Sweet
This is really as far as your argument is going, not sure that there's much value in the rest of the statistical analysis. In what seems like a slump statistically he's the better player.
But the real point about the impact is that he's he's not kicking enough goals. Which is true.
You can divide Fogarty's career (to date) into 3 distinct segments - which I will call "Bad Old" Fog, "Good" Fog, and "Bad New" Fog.
Bad Old Fog (R1 2018 - R10 2022)
The Bad Old Fog days were defined by inconsistency, not just from game to game, but quarter to quarter. Fog would often play brilliant cameos, lasting one quarter, but being largely invisible for the rest of the game. To be fair, the selectors didn't pick him regularly during this period - but his form didn't exactly demand regular selection either. In this period he played 46 games, averaging 8.1 disposals and 1.1 goals per game, with a best return of 5 goals (and another 4 games where he kicked bags of 3).
The most notable, arguably defining, characteristic of this period was his accuracy in front of goal - he kicked a total of 52.20 during this period (72.2% accuracy), and was the 3rd most accurate goal scorer in AFL/VFL history at the time of his 50th goal.
His potential during this period was obvious. We saw during those all-too-brief cameo performances just how good he could be. The problem was how to unlock the potential. The coaches tried playing him in the midfield and even in defence (in the SANFL) to try and coach him into becoming more involved in the game for longer. Nothing seemed to work, until it did, resulting in the Good Fog era...
Good Fog (R11 2022 - R6 2023)
During the 2022 pre-season Fog worked with Burgess to improve his fitness. He also worked with an unnamed sports psychologist, who helped him with his confidence. The results of the work done, on both mind & body, were remarkable.
In 16 games he kicked 44.15, at 74.5% accuracy, averaging 2.75 goals and 11.4 disposals per game. Finally, we saw the Fog that we'd been waiting for since the excitement of his initial drafting. Fog dominated, and Crows fans (including myself) couldn't have been happier to see his career blossoming.
This was the Fog playing at his full potential, and we all thought he had the world at his feet - and that he was finally stepping up, ready to become Walker's successor as the leader of our forward line.
Sadly, it wasn't to last...
Bad New Fog (R7 2023 - present)
The current period stands at 22 games, and counting. In this period he's gone back to averaging 1.1 goals per game, though his disposal numbers have improved (relative to the Bad Old days) to 10.5 per game. Worst, his goal kicking accuracy has deserted him - he's gone from 72% (Bad Old) and 74% (Good) to just 52%.
Unlike the Bad Old Fog days, he's playing games more consistently - the cameo performances are now gone, replaced by a more even performance across the duration of whole games, and from one game to the next. He seems to be playing further up the ground, winning more disposals on the wings than inside the F50, which may partly account for the reduction in his goal scoring.
The reality is though, that he's not offering enough further up the ground to counter the lack of goal scoring - and his reduced accuracy means that he's no longer such a dangerous target when he does get the ball inside scoring range.
As a forward, the Bad New Fog is struggling to win his own ball. Yes, delivery into our forward line was bloody awful in the first 4 games, but Fog hasn't helped his own cause either. Don't forget that the Bad New Fog era also spans the back half of 2023, when Adelaide was the highest scoring team in the competition, yet Fog was still struggling to make an impact. Delivery was not a problem at that time.
As AFC979810 has pointed out, his performances in this period are little different to those of Himmelberg, who has spent the last 12 months playing in the SANFL.
The big question is this - how do we get the Bad New Fog to revert to the form he showed in the Good Fog days? Maybe it's a simple as spending more time with the shrink. I don't know. What I do know is that the Good Fog era showed us what he's capable of, and we need to be seeing more of that (and less of the Bad New Fog).
Why Persist?
As I see it, there are 2 main reasons - hope, and a lack of alternative options.
The Good Fog era showed us exactly what he's capable of, when everything clicks. Nothing Himmelberg has ever done, or is ever likely to do, comes close to matching Fog's performances during this period. One of the main reasons for his ongoing selection is the hope that he will find that form again. However, he's now well into his 8th season, and there's only so long that a club can keep selecting a player based solely on potential - at some point the player's actual (disappointing) level of performance has to become the determining factor.
If we're to drop the Bad New Fog, then we need to replace him with someone who will perform better - and right now, no such player exists on our team list. Himmelberg is no better than the Bad New Fog, and not even in the same postcode as Good Fog. Similarly, Burgess & Gollant are no improvement, though both have an additional string to their bow as ruck support for ROB. That leaves Curtin as a longer-term option, but the coaches seem determined to play him in defence.
Fogarty's position will remain secure until the club can secure a better alternative. In 2025 we'll have Welsh on the list, but that could be balanced by the retirement of Walker (if/when that day comes). Given the urgency of improving our midfield, I'd suggest it's unlikely that we'll be recruiting anyone capable of forcing Fogarty out any time soon. In the meantime, the best we can do is cross our fingers and pray for a return to the Good Fog days.
Bad Old Fog (R1 2018 - R10 2022)
The Bad Old Fog days were defined by inconsistency, not just from game to game, but quarter to quarter. Fog would often play brilliant cameos, lasting one quarter, but being largely invisible for the rest of the game. To be fair, the selectors didn't pick him regularly during this period - but his form didn't exactly demand regular selection either. In this period he played 46 games, averaging 8.1 disposals and 1.1 goals per game, with a best return of 5 goals (and another 4 games where he kicked bags of 3).
The most notable, arguably defining, characteristic of this period was his accuracy in front of goal - he kicked a total of 52.20 during this period (72.2% accuracy), and was the 3rd most accurate goal scorer in AFL/VFL history at the time of his 50th goal.
His potential during this period was obvious. We saw during those all-too-brief cameo performances just how good he could be. The problem was how to unlock the potential. The coaches tried playing him in the midfield and even in defence (in the SANFL) to try and coach him into becoming more involved in the game for longer. Nothing seemed to work, until it did, resulting in the Good Fog era...
Good Fog (R11 2022 - R6 2023)
During the 2022 pre-season Fog worked with Burgess to improve his fitness. He also worked with an unnamed sports psychologist, who helped him with his confidence. The results of the work done, on both mind & body, were remarkable.
In 16 games he kicked 44.15, at 74.5% accuracy, averaging 2.75 goals and 11.4 disposals per game. Finally, we saw the Fog that we'd been waiting for since the excitement of his initial drafting. Fog dominated, and Crows fans (including myself) couldn't have been happier to see his career blossoming.
This was the Fog playing at his full potential, and we all thought he had the world at his feet - and that he was finally stepping up, ready to become Walker's successor as the leader of our forward line.
Sadly, it wasn't to last...
Bad New Fog (R7 2023 - present)
The current period stands at 22 games, and counting. In this period he's gone back to averaging 1.1 goals per game, though his disposal numbers have improved (relative to the Bad Old days) to 10.5 per game. Worst, his goal kicking accuracy has deserted him - he's gone from 72% (Bad Old) and 74% (Good) to just 52%.
Unlike the Bad Old Fog days, he's playing games more consistently - the cameo performances are now gone, replaced by a more even performance across the duration of whole games, and from one game to the next. He seems to be playing further up the ground, winning more disposals on the wings than inside the F50, which may partly account for the reduction in his goal scoring.
The reality is though, that he's not offering enough further up the ground to counter the lack of goal scoring - and his reduced accuracy means that he's no longer such a dangerous target when he does get the ball inside scoring range.
As a forward, the Bad New Fog is struggling to win his own ball. Yes, delivery into our forward line was bloody awful in the first 4 games, but Fog hasn't helped his own cause either. Don't forget that the Bad New Fog era also spans the back half of 2023, when Adelaide was the highest scoring team in the competition, yet Fog was still struggling to make an impact. Delivery was not a problem at that time.
As AFC979810 has pointed out, his performances in this period are little different to those of Himmelberg, who has spent the last 12 months playing in the SANFL.
The big question is this - how do we get the Bad New Fog to revert to the form he showed in the Good Fog days? Maybe it's a simple as spending more time with the shrink. I don't know. What I do know is that the Good Fog era showed us what he's capable of, and we need to be seeing more of that (and less of the Bad New Fog).
Why Persist?
As I see it, there are 2 main reasons - hope, and a lack of alternative options.
The Good Fog era showed us exactly what he's capable of, when everything clicks. Nothing Himmelberg has ever done, or is ever likely to do, comes close to matching Fog's performances during this period. One of the main reasons for his ongoing selection is the hope that he will find that form again. However, he's now well into his 8th season, and there's only so long that a club can keep selecting a player based solely on potential - at some point the player's actual (disappointing) level of performance has to become the determining factor.
If we're to drop the Bad New Fog, then we need to replace him with someone who will perform better - and right now, no such player exists on our team list. Himmelberg is no better than the Bad New Fog, and not even in the same postcode as Good Fog. Similarly, Burgess & Gollant are no improvement, though both have an additional string to their bow as ruck support for ROB. That leaves Curtin as a longer-term option, but the coaches seem determined to play him in defence.
Fogarty's position will remain secure until the club can secure a better alternative. In 2025 we'll have Welsh on the list, but that could be balanced by the retirement of Walker (if/when that day comes). Given the urgency of improving our midfield, I'd suggest it's unlikely that we'll be recruiting anyone capable of forcing Fogarty out any time soon. In the meantime, the best we can do is cross our fingers and pray for a return to the Good Fog days.
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Southerntakeover
Too Sweet
The dog returns to his vomit
After rewatching, thought he was good on weekend.
Was mobile and good leading patterns. Plus some work up the ground.
Far better than the first 3 weeks when he had cement boots.
The marks/goals will come
On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app
Was mobile and good leading patterns. Plus some work up the ground.
Far better than the first 3 weeks when he had cement boots.
The marks/goals will come
On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app
Scorpus
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- Apr 16, 2014
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We shouldn't rule out an injury
Darcy Fogarty is one of only two players in the history of the game that goes from being unfit to match fit in the space of a single week
(The other is Jake Soligo)
With such a magical property we could see a drastic improvement when he instantly regains match fitness
- Nov 5, 2009
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- Nov 5, 2009
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He wasn't good at all. He gave away more free kicks than the times the leather hit his boot.
I think it's very curious how Fogarty went from "Bad Old Fog" to "Good Fog" in the space of a single week, before reverting to "Bad New Fog" also in the space of a single week.
There's definitely more going on here than just fitness, though that was definitely one of the major issues which held him back during the "Bad Old Fog" days.
- Nov 5, 2009
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Its the Psychologist he is seeing. Need to get him a better one.
- Nov 5, 2009
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Its not just this season though. Its a convenient retort, but the discussion is around his form since round 7 of 2023 and why it so so damn different his first 4 games of 23 and end of 2022.
The bloke is in the leadership and shanked a kick from the goal square costing us a comeback against Geelong. He almost did the same against Carlton by having his cement hands drop a mark.
I get it - he is the reverse whipping boy - but there comes a time when a player needs to make his own way and establish himself in the AFL.
Southerntakeover
Too Sweet
If we're to suggest he nearly cost us the Carlton game, we might mention that he was critical in the late comeback.
Ditch it
- Jun 23, 2016
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They def do. But we can't get them. Same as they show deepest fwd etc
Good question
Whilst not trying to be over-dramatic this week’s showdown could be the most important game of his career to date.
Thought again against North he didn’t pull his weight and this time he didn’t even have his usual excuses given the team’s dominance for long periods of time. He needs to show an ability to really hit the scoreboard again, he has barely shown it for 12 months now and it can’t all be due to like his cheerleaders would have you believe that no player is able to hit him on a lead inside 50.
The problems he had on the weekend were systemic of his issues he’s always had as a forward - he is way too easy to play on for his opposition defender. For someone we’ve been told since his junior days was a ‘leading forward’ his leading patterns are so basic, he just leads in a straight line up for the ball, which would be very effective if you had Darren Jarman kicking you the ball, or you had lightning burst speed or if there were no opposition defenders in the forward 50 but given that’s not the case it is a problem for him as it’s basically all he does as a forward. He doesn’t try to lose his defender prior or use an arc or any change of direction he just leads straight up and is finding it nearly impossible to get any separation with any AFL standard defender he plays on being able to read the play, keep up with him and pressure the marking contest, hell he couldn’t even find much separation or get a hold of the non-competent ones in North’s backline.
Another issue that has crept into his game in the last 12 months is he’s now consistently misreading the flight of the ball inside 50, lots of people on here are saying players are constantly kicking it over his head but I’m more of the other view I believe Fogarty is a lot of the time just misreading the ball off the boot, I also point out specifically inside 50 because for some reason he seems to not have the same issues when he goes out on long leads to take a mark on the wing but when he’s inside 50 and he’s out on a lead or when he tries to leap for the ball he totally misjudges it.
Sure like those that constantly defend him you can certainly blame some of it on poor delivery and the team’s lack of ability to consistently kick it to a forwards advantage but surely as a forward you have to be a bit more flexible and prepare as you’re not always going to get the perfect ball delivered to you and for 12 months now Fog just seems to be wanting it always perfect and wants his defender to just disappear and apply no pressure to him while he goes for the mark.
Thought again against North he didn’t pull his weight and this time he didn’t even have his usual excuses given the team’s dominance for long periods of time. He needs to show an ability to really hit the scoreboard again, he has barely shown it for 12 months now and it can’t all be due to like his cheerleaders would have you believe that no player is able to hit him on a lead inside 50.
The problems he had on the weekend were systemic of his issues he’s always had as a forward - he is way too easy to play on for his opposition defender. For someone we’ve been told since his junior days was a ‘leading forward’ his leading patterns are so basic, he just leads in a straight line up for the ball, which would be very effective if you had Darren Jarman kicking you the ball, or you had lightning burst speed or if there were no opposition defenders in the forward 50 but given that’s not the case it is a problem for him as it’s basically all he does as a forward. He doesn’t try to lose his defender prior or use an arc or any change of direction he just leads straight up and is finding it nearly impossible to get any separation with any AFL standard defender he plays on being able to read the play, keep up with him and pressure the marking contest, hell he couldn’t even find much separation or get a hold of the non-competent ones in North’s backline.
Another issue that has crept into his game in the last 12 months is he’s now consistently misreading the flight of the ball inside 50, lots of people on here are saying players are constantly kicking it over his head but I’m more of the other view I believe Fogarty is a lot of the time just misreading the ball off the boot, I also point out specifically inside 50 because for some reason he seems to not have the same issues when he goes out on long leads to take a mark on the wing but when he’s inside 50 and he’s out on a lead or when he tries to leap for the ball he totally misjudges it.
Sure like those that constantly defend him you can certainly blame some of it on poor delivery and the team’s lack of ability to consistently kick it to a forwards advantage but surely as a forward you have to be a bit more flexible and prepare as you’re not always going to get the perfect ball delivered to you and for 12 months now Fog just seems to be wanting it always perfect and wants his defender to just disappear and apply no pressure to him while he goes for the mark.
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I was a huge fan of Fogarty. His potential appeared to be huge. Good enough that he would just slot in and take tex's place without the side missing a beat. But he looks so far away from that it's not funny.
He has barely touched it when forward. He's getting most of his possessions out on the wings and even some contested footy when lured into the midfield range. I honestly think that's his best position for now. More up the ground contested footy. And maybe then he'll regain some confidence to be able to go forward and be the forward he needs to be.
He has barely touched it when forward. He's getting most of his possessions out on the wings and even some contested footy when lured into the midfield range. I honestly think that's his best position for now. More up the ground contested footy. And maybe then he'll regain some confidence to be able to go forward and be the forward he needs to be.
