Opinion Dees V Dogs - Sunday MCG 1.00 PM

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If Caleb Daniel was only used at half forward, to feed the ball to other forwards.
He would be still a weapon.He is clearly best 22 and would always stay down at the feet of the forwards.Does get isolated in marking contests in defence or wing.Which is why forward line is ideal.Surrounded by bigger forward's.
 
weltschmerz said:
Bramble's not taking Macrae's spot. I reckon he's either covering an injured Dale, or he's being played in Duryea's role as Duryea doesn't have the leg speed to match on Pickett any more.
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Bramble is a good addition to the list imo but if he continues to bomb it long inside 50 May and Lever will have a field day.
 

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Firstly, pre-melts are funny. Maybe a few eggs on faces when the teams are named?

People seem to be leaving out the context of Macrae not being fully fit. While attending CB's last year (because that is his natural positon), and despite being a three-time All-Australian who is not yet 30, the fact is he did only finish 14th in our best and fairest.

Combined with the 3 recruits (pushing him down to 17th, for arguments sake, at least in the pecking order) the fact that our 17th-best player who is not fully fit is on the fringes of selection is entirely logical. By the same token, I would be surprised if he was dropped and was fit throughout the entire pre-season, but he wasn't, and that's the reality. Just for a quick shorthand as to how relatively poor his 2023 season was, he only was voted in the best 5 players in the game by this very board (the Ching) once in a game, and that was in our loss to the Suns (so he never actually contributed as one of our best 5 players directly to one of our 12 wins).

And the uniqueness of Daniel as a player with extreme strengths and extreme weaknesses (like literally his height) will always mean that how we fit him into the team tactically will always be a very difficult. It's credit to Daniel's adaptability as a player that he's learnt how to play so many different positions in his career, with great positive value, but it also means his place is never truly cemented in the team merely on the basis of player form like it is with other players.

I agree that it would be highly strange not to pick our last year 4th place best-and-fairest getter, but it's also not unprecedented - Alex Keath was a top-5 getter in our best and fairest in his first two years at the club and people, some justified, some not, have very quickly soured on his form since those two excellent years for us.

Lastly, it's strange that many people were demanding significant change at the club at the back end of last year, especially after we lost to West Coast, but are now questioning how that change is actually taking place. Short of sacking Bevo, what else do people want - we're dropping players that may be perceived as undroppable, and made wholesale changes to the football department. That is certainly what people wanted in August last year. There's receipts on this board!
 
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The game evolves tactically. Skills that were once important become less so over time, skills that were not important can revitalise or lengthen careers. In the same way that fat full-forwards without defensive pressure cannot play in today's league as they could in the 90's, there are small changes year-to-year that change how the game is played. We may not notice them as it slowly changes, but it exists.

I think there's no doubt that pure legspeed with ball in hand is far more important than it was a few years ago. Every team seems to have a player at stoppages who runs through contests and winds the ball at pace, then can link on the outside by burning their opponent. In some ways I think players like Zak Butters (pick 12 in the draft), Chad Warner (39) have developed into the players that they were expected to, but they're much better because the way that they play the game is more valuable. On the other hand you only have to look at stagnating slow young players like James Worpel and Darcy Parish who may not have been what they have appeared they may have been when they had better seasons a few years ago.

So Macrae was an All-Australian footballer, yes, but in a time where footy was arguably a bit of a different game than what we're expecting in 2024.
 
Dogs to get this done easily. Stop Fritsch and Kozzie and they will struggle to kick 50. They look a little out of shape and frankly a touch disinterested. Looking forward to watching JUH, Astro and co run rampant.
 
Not worried about Macrae, he is good enough to push his way back into the team and he will play more AFL than VFL games this year. That being said, people live to much in the past.

Look at Liverpool FCs starting midfield in the 2022-2023 campaign. ALL of them suddenly hit a wall the same time, after playing super well the season before and being a big part of trophies. One of them was still only 28, and suddenly running like he was 40. People can drop off in one off season.

Point is, what players did in 2023 is totally irrelevant to 2024. The only form is preseason form, and then the early games ahead. The players bought in are not exactly the same position as Macrae and Daniel, so its comparing Apples and Oranges. Though Bramble is probably playing the role Daniel normally would, he has pace to burn and can thump the ball more than 30m. I do expect Harmes to see a fair bit of midfield time as well, for his pace and his defensive side. We have lacked a little tackling intensity in the middle since Dunkley left. Sanders is a gun and deserves his chances. Treloar, Libba and Bont remain our best starting trio in the middle. Todays game is about pace, and our lack of pace and damage on the outside may still be our heel. We can't carry 6-7 inside MIDS on the same match day. Treloar, Bont, Libba, Harmes, West, Sanders, Daniel, Macrae are all better players on the inside. Someone or two will have to give.

Whoever is named tomorrow, it is because they had the better preseason than those who were not named, or simply are better conditioned match wise. Save the melts for a few weeks into the season.

I love both Macrae and Daniel just as much as the next fan. I will say one thing, last season Macrae as our VC, pulled out of contests/gave up chasing his man a few times and threw his shoulders in different games. A poor example you want from your leaders. Teams like Collingwood and Richmond were running hard both ways all day, not quitting as few on our list did. Give me a best 22 that can run both ways hard all game any day, over a more talented one that does not.
 
ringa5 said:
If Caleb Daniel was only used at half forward, to feed the ball to other forwards.
He would be still a weapon.He is clearly best 22 and would always stay down at the feet of the forwards.Does get isolated in marking contests in defence or wing.Which is why forward line is ideal.Surrounded by bigger forward's.
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HHF is the most thankless, tough position to play at AFL level given the many kilometres of 'thankless' running you have to do. The best at it cover the ground amazingly well. Baz was incredible at it in 202, Macrae did it last year better than anyone else we had on our list. I think in Round 1 Daniel can play that role too, depending on where we rotate Harmes.

If we're playing 7 forwards (3 starting + 1 bench) we've got 3 talls (Naughton, Marra, Lobb), Weightman as that medium who can mark or crumb, West & McNeill have claimed their spot as smalls on form. That leaves the bench spot to be settled.
 
_Cerberus_ said:
Look at Liverpool FCs starting midfield in the 2022-2023 campaign. ALL of them suddenly hit a wall the same time, after playing super well the season before and being a big part of trophies. One of them was still only 28, and suddenly running like he was 40. People can drop off in one off season.
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The solution is to obviously transfer Macrae to a Saudi Arabian team that will overpay for him then!
 
Mofra said:
HHF is the most thankless, tough position to play at AFL level given the many kilometres of 'thankless' running you have to do. The best at it cover the ground amazingly well. Baz was incredible at it in 202, Macrae did it last year better than anyone else we had on our list. I think in Round 1 Daniel can play that role too, depending on where we rotate Harmes.

If we're playing 7 forwards (3 starting + 1 bench) we've got 3 talls (Naughton, Marra, Lobb), Weightman as that medium who can mark or crumb, West & McNeill have claimed their spot as smalls on form. That leaves the bench spot to be settled.
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The club put out a little video today,one of the ones where they ask players a question, this one being "what's the hardest position to play on field?" There were two common answers, the first being the position that the person being asked played, and the second being high half-forward.
 
I have been wracking my brain trying to guess the side for the opening game.

This is what I think it will be:

FB Coffield Jones Bramble
HB Richards Khamis JJ
C Harmes Bont Williams
HF Weightman Naughton West
FF Lobb JUH McNeil
R English Libba Treloar
IC Sanders Daniel Scott Duryea
Sub Baker

The only question marks for me are:
1. Is JOD fit? But given he basically missed both practice matches, because he got injured early in the first one, I expect he will be brought back slowly rather than being put straight back in, but it’s a guess. He could well be picked and if so then my guess is Duryea makes way and Khamis moves to the bench in that scenario.
2. Does Jack Macrae get picked or not? I think Bevo will pass at this stage and give him some time in the VFL to prove both his fitness and form before he pushes into the team
3. Who is picked as the sub? I’m picking Baker but it could well be Scott or even Gallagher. It could also be VDM although I suspect he will also be asked to return via the VFL. I went for Baker because he can bring energy and run if he is subbed into the game and can play a variety of roles although arguably Scott is even more flexible but I would prefer Scott as a utility off the bench than the sub. Gallagher looked okay in the practice matches but given it would be his first game I just think he won’t be the sub and I would think a more seasoned player in round 1 is a better option as sub.
 
ringa5 said:
If Caleb Daniel was only used at half forward, to feed the ball to other forwards.
He would be still a weapon.He is clearly best 22 and would always stay down at the feet of the forwards.Does get isolated in marking contests in defence or wing.Which is why forward line is ideal.Surrounded by bigger forward's.
Click to expand...
Let me counter why the best coaches in the game at the moment are not playing CD as a half forward. The ball hits the deck, gets knocked into space, the running defenders are off, the chain of handballs are off, with each 5 metres, CD drops back a metre, now our defenders are 5 vs 6, easy over the top goal. Your small forwards must be able to cover ground at pace. Look at Daniel and Bedford for GWS, all the clubs are doing it. The game is about getting back covering space and then taking off on the turnover. Its an athlete's game now.
Granted against weaker, not as well drilled teams there is a role for both CD and Macrae, yet it should be limited this year in my view.
 

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weltschmerz said:
The club put out a little video today,one of the ones where they ask players a question, this one being "what's the hardest position to play on field?" There were two common answers, the first being the position that the person being asked played, and the second being high half-forward.
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It's a pretty big thing coaches talk about below AFL level and it's sometimes called "the dead zone" given how hard it is to play and have an impact.

The other part of it is there's so much running to block the opposition cheap 45 and all of that effort is rarely shown in camera. Unless you're at the game it's hard to get a feel for how hard some of these guys are working for 10-12 touches a game.
What Baz did in 2021 is remarkable.
 
LondonBulldog said:
Let me counter why the best coaches in the game at the moment are not playing CD as a half forward. The ball hits the deck, gets knocked into space, the running defenders are off, the chain of handballs are off, with each 5 metres, CD drops back a metre, now our defenders are 5 vs 6, easy over the top goal. Your small forwards must be able to cover ground at pace. Look at Daniel and Bedford for GWS, all the clubs are doing it. The game is about getting back covering space and then taking off on the turnover. Its an athlete's game now.
Granted against weaker, not as well drilled teams there is a role for both CD and Macrae, yet it should be limited this year in my view.
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This point gets overdone IMO, the reigning premiers are literally playing Lipinski in that position right now who is definitely not an athlete, last year they played Adams, Mitchell through there etc.

You definitely need pace and athleticism at half forward, but there’s still room for a classy half forward who’s not an athlete alongside them. CD has a huge tank to get up and down the ground and work over his opponent and plug holes defensively, get into attacking positions offensively. It’s not all only about pace.

Maybe not room for two though in both Macrae & CD unless they’re spending significant time in other parts of the ground too
 
doggies ftw said:
This point gets overdone IMO, the reigning premiers are literally playing Lipinski in that position right now who is definitely not an athlete, last year they played Adams, Mitchell through there etc.

You definitely need pace and athleticism at half forward, but there’s still room for a classy half forward who’s not an athlete alongside them. CD has a huge tank to get up and down the ground and work over his opponent and plug holes defensively, get into attacking positions offensively. It’s not all only about pace.

Maybe not room for two though in both Macrae & CD unless they’re spending significant time in other parts of the ground too
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Collingwood also don't play 3 talls so aren't comparable, Lipinski/Adams/Mitchell were their equivalent to Lobb
 
doggies ftw said:
This point gets overdone IMO, the reigning premiers are literally playing Lipinski in that position right now who is definitely not an athlete, last year they played Adams, Mitchell through there etc.

You definitely need pace and athleticism at half forward, but there’s still room for a classy half forward who’s not an athlete alongside them. CD has a huge tank to get up and down the ground and work over his opponent and plug holes defensively, get into attacking positions offensively. It’s not all only about pace.

Maybe not room for two though in both Macrae & CD unless they’re spending significant time in other parts of the ground too
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Exactly, as much as speed is important in the current game team balance is always the tricky part. Similar to when we had Libba and Wallis both competing for the one midfield spot, Wallis was forced to reshape himself as a forward before ultimately being pushed out completely.
 
We are speculating on the last 3 spots in a squad of 23.

I believe the key is in Bevo reinforcing that we are taking no chances on players under injury cloud.

If Macrae, JOD and Dale had uninterrupted pre seasons, then they would be in, but as it turns out, they need a game or two at VFL level to work themselves into the team. All 3 are in our best side.

The CD speculation is just that. He is a Bevo fav and should and will play.
 
Generation West said:
We are speculating on the last 3 spots in a squad of 23.

I believe the key is in Bevo reinforcing that we are taking no chances on players under injury cloud.

If Macrae, JOD and Dale had uninterrupted pre seasons, then they would be in, but as it turns out, they need a game or two at VFL level to work themselves into the team. All 3 are in our best side.

The CD speculation is just that. He is a Bevo fav and should and will play.
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I have the same feel with CD. Uninterrupted pre-season and can fill multiple positions on the ground, having him only play the 2nd half v. the Hawks was less about him and more about wanting to see how some of the other boys went.
 
Libbaaaa said:
I have the same feel with CD. Uninterrupted pre-season and can fill multiple positions on the ground, having him only play the 2nd half v. the Hawks was less about him and more about wanting to see how some of the other boys went.
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I think he can almost become an exception sub option with his versatility
 
Foxman98 said:
Collingwood also don't play 3 talls so aren't comparable, Lipinski/Adams/Mitchell were their equivalent to Lobb
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Miochek, Cox and Frampton/Mcstay. Pies play 3 talls whenever they are healthy enough
Occasionally Johnson

Sure maybe not as tall as our talls, but outside of Miochek they don't put any pressure on
 
Struggle said:
Miochek, Cox and Frampton/Mcstay. Pies play 3 talls whenever they are healthy enough
Occasionally Johnson

Sure maybe not as tall as our talls, but outside of Miochek they don't put any pressure on
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Cox/Cameron rotate more through the bench then forward
 
Foxman98 said:
I think he can almost become an exception sub option with his versatility
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Like others have mentioned I think he is great starting on the bench and just plugging holes where needed. Yes ideally he is hovering around that 70m mark from goal and delivering 30m bullets to our forwards but he can be effective in bursts all around the ground. The days of him taking kicks in are over though, only 12 last year, Ed should take the bulk without Dale.
 
The Daniel stuff doesn't make a heap of sense. As previously stated, he's one of Bevo's favourites and Bevo has consistently made remarks about the line coaches battling amongst each other to have him in their lines each week.

Either the sub last week was a smokescreen (ie. simply on managed minutes or to give someone like Gallagher or VDM a chance at more game time in a preseason contest) or he's had an poor preseason and is being sent a message (unlikely but possible).
 
Libbaaaa said:
Like others have mentioned I think he is great starting on the bench and just plugging holes where needed. Yes ideally he is hovering around that 70m mark from goal and delivering 30m bullets to our forwards but he can be effective in bursts all around the ground. The days of him taking kicks in are over though, only 12 last year, Ed should take the bulk without Dale.
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How many should English take?
 

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