List Mgmt. Delisting and drafting is almost as fun as trading: The trade and draft megathread

[ThePuma #9]

Sorry for the intrusion, genuine question - based on the following information that came out in the media a couple of days ago, where would this rank Kelly at WCE in terms of average salary & I wonder if this is also part of the reason the 2 teams are at a stand still on terms of trade value:



We know that next year he is on an AFL mandated wage of $120k plus match payments - that would mean that if the suggested offer is correct that he'd be on $2.8 million over the remaining 4 years or $700k a season.

That seems a significant offer for a player after one season of AFL - maybe Geelong has looked at that and said to WCE that indications are they see him as a valuable member of the team going forward and want to see the same value offered in terms of a trade.

Fans of both clubs want a resolution with this trade - but like most trades that involve bigger name options & a player in the teams best 6/12 players, if it does get done it won't be until the last 30 minutes if the trade period.

I think what he is worth is a pick between 10 and 15. He had a fantastic year, no doubt and he may very well get better but he may also be at his peak already. The fact that he also only has 5 odd years left in him has to come into the equation as well. Is he worth more than Dayne Beams who may get to Collingwood for their first this year and next years second? Probably not, but that's the point, comparing the trade to what he is being paid or what other players get traded for is irrelevant. Trading is not a science and trying to compare is just asking for trouble.

Wells argues he is worth a pick in the top ten, we believe our two pick 20 and 22 are enough for him, both parties need to meet somewhere in the middle for this to get done. What i don't want to do is throw a player in. West Coast are not in the habit of throwing contracted players to the wolves to complete trades. It is why our player retention is so good, because we look after our boys and don't see them as meat for the market.

 

[JohnW]

Yes he should immediately go into the hall of fame!!!!

Dont be so extreme dude.

Applies to the quoted comment and also the get Kelly no matter what.

No harm in being bullish but expect the response you have gotten.

 

[Trav22]

He's also not a Free Agent, meaning unless he goes into the draft a trade still has to be arranged.

Thanks captain obvious

 

[WCE1698]

Who we getting out of Valente, Dursma, O'Halloran and Ely Smith then?

 

[boondy]

He’s out of contract after 2019.

Can nominate for the preseason draft . Last year only Carlton nominated for a preseason draft . You get your player for nothing .

 

[Obeanie1]

Wells is posturing to squeeze us for more than 20 + 22. I would tell him to jam it and we'll get Kelly in 2019 thanks.

Pick up two mids with 20 + 22 and back our development in. With Gaff and Shep to come in Rd 1, plus NN mid season, its looking pretty good.

Regarding our delistees, I wouldnt be averse to cutting deep again this year, we should take chance of finding rough diamonds instead of holding onto spuds. I reckon we're holding out til the end of the trade period and confirming arrangements for our 2nds team before we delist guys.

Lore just pointed out on the D&T Live Draft order thread that picks between 30 - 68 will actually move up spots due to Sydney, North, Collingwood and Brisbane having to match bids. I hope we're going after 3rd to 4th rd picks because they might be slightly more valuable after the order shuffles slightly.

It is easy to say cut deep.

Who exactly would you cut?

Karpany and Partington are likely to go.

A couple of rookies sure.

Who else?

 

[Obeanie1]

Who we getting out of Valente, Dursma, O'Halloran and Ely Smith then?

Any one of these and Sydney Stack.

That is if Clark is gone.

There are some nice mids around our picks still.

 

[avishka5]

Stephen Wells just needs to grow up and stop acting like a ****ing brat.

 

[WCE1698]

Any one of these and Sydney Stack.

That is if Clark is gone.

There are some nice mids around our picks still.

Clark probably will be gone. Maybe the club will take a punt on Ian Hill also?

 

[Obeanie1]

Clark probably will be gone. Maybe the club will take a punt on Ian Hill also?

Hill will be gone as well they say but is sliding.

Picking up Cameron later also leads me to think we will draft bigger half backs or mids with our two picks in the 20's if we still have them.

 

[Falco]

It is easy to say cut deep.

Who exactly would you cut?

Karpany and Partington are likely to go.

A couple of rookies sure.

Who else?

McInness, Burrows, England, Mutimer (re-rookie).

Next year you are looking at Olango, his 2019 needs to be not as injury afflicted as this year.

If you can move Nelson and Partington on for picks this year then it means that Watson and Mallen can possibly get more opportunity.

 

[hudson2006]

Shame there aren't many good ruck options this draft, as we should probably be spending a highish pick on a developing ruckman. The last time we took a ruck in the main draft was Lycett back in 2010 (Fmac in 2011 drafted as more of a utility).

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

100% picks 20 and 22 are enough to secure Kelly! They got him for pick 24 last year, so by us offering pick 20 and 22 that's doubling his value and more in recognition of his great year. Geelong are being stupid now, they've got a great track record for getting top quality players within the 20s.

 

[WCE1698]

100% picks 20 and 22 are enough to secure Kelly! They got him for pick 24 last year, so by us offering pick 20 and 22 that's doubling his value and more in recognition of his great year. Geelong are being stupid now, they've got a great track record for getting top quality players within the 20s.

Its worth pick 6 on points also.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Dont be so extreme dude.

Applies to the quoted comment and also the get Kelly no matter what.

No harm in being bullish but expect the response you have gotten.

No, don't blow out of proportion what Ryan did. He did what he is paid to do, what he was expected to do. Thats what footballers in a best of the best comp do.
I have already said by getting the Kelly deal was in reference to some not wanting to give up both 2nd round picks.
I should of chosen different words. I reckon most knew what I was referring to. I understand that you and others didn't though and its all cool.
Now lets just wait and see what transpires.

 

[Avalor]

100% picks 20 and 22 are enough to secure Kelly! They got him for pick 24 last year, so by us offering pick 20 and 22 that's doubling his value and more in recognition of his great year. Geelong are being stupid now, they've got a great track record for getting top quality players within the 20s.

Exactly my take on it... I said the same in this thread a way back. Well's stance is now ridiculous, and I'm sure it's hurting the relationship between the two clubs as well.
Not good all round.

 

[Coasters7]

No need for people to get overly excited with Geelong - I still think they are OK to deal with. If someone came to us with with pick 17 for Oscar Allen since it is better than what we took him for, would we take it? Not sure of others but I would say get stuffed. It has nothing to do with how old Tim is nor what pick they got him for. They future value the player drives it.

Kelly has delivered big time. He also provides them with a best 22 on basic wages for 2 years meaning relief for what is reported as pretty tight salary cap after they added Danger and Ablett.

The contracted players asking for trades is likely to be pissing every club off and this is the only one that is about a player covered by the mandatory 2 years for draftees.

Wells has a good reputation for a good reason - he is reasonable and usually gets the job done. We can shit stir our Cattery posters and they are about as extreme as we are and I want us to hold firm or leave it a year.

Don’t really have a problem with Geelong with this deal in isolation. More the fact they are happy when everyone’s coming in, to accomodate them, but as soon as someone wants out it’s suddenly a big deal. I’d say we’re pretty fair at the trade table when our players went to leave and in return we usually get some nice deals coming back in. Geelong want it both ways here..

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Not really.

Freo would more than likely pick him up instead of us I'd imagine.

They wouldn’t touch him if he made it clear he wasn’t wanting to play for them

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

Who we getting out of Valente, Dursma, O'Halloran and Ely Smith then?

Ian hill slides to 20 ?

 

[bph25]

No faith in Fogarty?

You know, the bloke you took with 22 last year BEFORE Kelly

He is fringe at the moment and still has to make it. I think he will but the point is 20 and 22 both speculative picks

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

What are we supposed to do for the next 30 hours?

 

[bph25]

Did you consider who was taken AFTER picks 20 and 22.

Im guessing not.

What was Fyfe and Hird taken at.

Le cras?

Barrass?

McGovern?

So the chances of landing a gun from 20 on are 3 in 50.
Sound like good odds

 

[greennick]

Sorry for the intrusion, genuine question - based on the following information that came out in the media a couple of days ago, where would this rank Kelly at WCE in terms of average salary & I wonder if this is also part of the reason the 2 teams are at a stand still on terms of trade value:



We know that next year he is on an AFL mandated wage of $120k plus match payments - that would mean that if the suggested offer is correct that he'd be on $2.8 million over the remaining 4 years or $700k a season.

That seems a significant offer for a player after one season of AFL - maybe Geelong has looked at that and said to WCE that indications are they see him as a valuable member of the team going forward and want to see the same value offered in terms of a trade.

Fans of both clubs want a resolution with this trade - but like most trades that involve bigger name options & a player in the teams best 6/12 players, if it does get done it won't be until the last 30 minutes if the trade period.

I highly doubt we have offered such a deal, that is not something we usually do. I can't remember us ever doing it actually.

 

[dispute]

Don’t really have a problem with Geelong with this deal in isolation. More the fact they are happy when everyone’s coming in, to accomodate them, but as soon as someone wants out it’s suddenly a big deal. I’d say we’re pretty fair at the trade table when our players went to leave and in return we usually get some nice deals coming back in. Geelong want it both ways here..

Surely will also leave a sour taste going forward doing any deals with Geelong. Odd to ruin potentially years of fair trading on one deal.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

So the chances of landing a gun from 20 on are 3 in 50.
Sound like good odds

With your last picks in the 20s you've landed Duncan (28, 2009), Guthrie (23, 2010), Parfitt (26, 2016), Fogarty (22, 2017) and Kelly (24, 2017).

So you're pretty much batting at 100% over a decade, unless Fogarty turns out to be a bust.