List Mgmt. Delisting and drafting is almost as fun as trading: The trade and draft megathread

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I'd be disappointed if we traded the farm for Kelly. He looks good, but he's playing fourth mid in a team with two Brownlow winners and a multiple AA before him. If we bring him over expecting him to produce the same but much higher up the pecking order in terms of opposition targets, we're probably going to be very disappointed. Des Hedland looked great at Brisbane and crap at Freo because of this. Wellingham cost us a first round pick and we ended up playing him in the backline when he wasn't producing in the midfield because of this.

Note: I'm not saying I don't want Kelly or that I think he's a bad player, but I'm not confident that he'd be as good for us if we only have Shuey as a tag-target above him (assuming Gaff goes).
 

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If we can get Kelly for a reasonable deal I'd do it, pick in 20s and a player like Nelson or Partington (surplus to our best 22, but could have a role at another club). Think Nelson would be better player for them than Bews IMO.

Otherwise keep going to draft, I feel our past two years has brought in a lot of great talent that if we keep adding young talent we can stay a top 8 club for many years to come. Our new look fwd line in 5 years

Ryan Brander Rioli
Allen Waterman _____

Mids - Venners, Petrol, Brayshaw, Ainsworth (potentially Olango, England)

Def - Rotham (potentially Watson)

Probably need to add some more mids this year, and there will be some very solid options in to 20 to 40 draft range this year. Not as concerned about defenders as Cole and Duggan were added in the years prior. But thats a pretty strong group to keep building on. Kelly won't be the be all, end all.
 
Carbine Chaos said:
What trade value does Petruccelle have? Picked around 40, played a couple of games with minimal impact, still developing. Odd post.
Click to expand...
Are people in this post for real??!???
He is worth nothing!!!!
His ceiling however is huge!!!!
Develop develop develop
Or trade for pick 88/delist
 
avishka5 said:
Kelly and Hickey in for Gaff and Lycett would be so depressing. Kelly okish replacement for Gaff but Hickey would make me cry.

Id rather back Vardy, rookie Clarke and then try and get Jordan Roughead.
Click to expand...
I'll take a Hawaiian pizza thanks.
 
Keys said:
I know you didn’t mention Tim Kelly but I think it’s a good launch pad for a rant I’ve been sitting on for quite some time

Let’s be clear, Tim Kelly put together an exceptional first season in the AFL and probably exceeded everyone’s expectations. This lead to the common narrative (from over east in particular) on how the the two WA clubs ****** up by not drafting him when he’d been right under their noses for years.

Firstly it should be pointed out that Kelly entered the AFL as a 23 year old with 5 years and 93 games at WAFL league level behind him. He wasn’t your regular first year player but a mature body used to playing against men so was significantly advanced in comparison to the rest of the 2017 draft cohort. It shouldn’t be a surprise then that he outperformed most of them in 2018 especially when you consider the quality of the midfield he joined

Why wasn’t he drafted before 2017? I heard Paul Haselby talk about this on 6PR a couple of weeks back and he referred to the fact that Kelly did a lot of work on his game leading into 2017, in particular his disposal, and the improvement was obvious. His stats show a definite spike in 2017 especially his scoreboard impact and inside 50’s. So fair to say he wasn’t doing enough to attract interest from AFL clubs and as much as we and freo both missed his potential so did every other club

Now it’s the end of 2017 and west coast make a bold trade giving up their first pick in the 2018 “super draft” to Gold Coast in exchange for a trio of picks in the 2017 draft, said to be quite shallow, and, quite brilliantly as it turns out, the suns 2nd round pick in 2018. The common perception was we’d likely traded away a top 10 pick in a strong draft for a bunch of later picks in a shallow one. By way of justification west coast maintained there was some talent in the 21-40 range that they had their eye on. Without question Tim Kelly was one of those players that we hoped to pick up and triggered a very ballsy trade.

So draft night rolls around and our first pick - plenty of information suggesting we’d take Oscar Allen but turns out a KPP our recruiters rated top 5 was still on the board and the gun mids were gone. They jumped on Brander like a seagull on a stray chip expecting it would cost them a crack at Allen. To their surprise he’s still there when the first of our traded picks (21) from the suns comes up and they grab a second stray chip

My suspicion was that had Allen not still been available we’d have taken Kelly with this pick, a view that’s been confirmed by another poster I trust. We still had pick 26 to come so could get Kelly then and didn’t want to risk missing Allen

Turns out Geelong had their eye on Kelly and selected him with pick 24, ignoring the potential flight risk he posed. We went on to pick Ryan, Ainsworth and Petrucelle with our other 2nd picks who all played games in their first AFL season at a club that’s made a home prelim giving credence the the clubs position that there was talent in that 21-40 bracket

Yeah we “missed” Kelly but only after making a risky trade that was scoffed at by many draft “experts” and was designed in part to enable us to draft Kelly, then selecting a player considered by some to be the best tall in the draft (promising signs from Brander so far but not enough to confirm that assertion) and Oscar Allen ahead of Kelly

For the record Freo only had picks 2 and 5 to use before Kelly was taken and they would have been laughed at mercilessly had they gone that early

So to the numpties that want to have a crack at the WA clubs for not noticing Kelly, do some research and wait a couple or so years to see how the talents of Brander and Allen develop before getting too smug

Oh and also ponder how the rest of the AFL, including Geelong, with their vast recruiting networks left Kelly on the board through 4 drafts and 23 picks in the 2017 draft

TLDR - Oscar Allen is going to be a jet and we were right to take him over Kelly
Click to expand...

Great post. Couldn't have put it better myself. Both Brander and O.Allen are outstanding talents.

Brander was the best key forward in the draft - he was considered a potential #1 during 2016. For those doubting his ability, take another look at what he did during the U18 championships last year against Vic Metro. He reminds me a lot of Kennedy when he first arrived from Carlton - will become his natural replacement in time also.

O.Allen was the Larke medallist for 2017. He has such a high potential ceiling it is downright scary how good he will be if it is realised. I was fortunate enough to see him up close during the Brisbane game this year - he oozed class every time he touched the ball; in just his second game. To compare, by the time he is 23, O.Allen will be a far, far superior player to T.Kelly.

Both also grew up supporting the club as well.
 
Keys said:
I know you didn’t mention Tim Kelly but I think it’s a good launch pad for a rant I’ve been sitting on for quite some time

Let’s be clear, Tim Kelly put together an exceptional first season in the AFL and probably exceeded everyone’s expectations. This lead to the common narrative (from over east in particular) on how the the two WA clubs ****** up by not drafting him when he’d been right under their noses for years.

Firstly it should be pointed out that Kelly entered the AFL as a 23 year old with 5 years and 93 games at WAFL league level behind him. He wasn’t your regular first year player but a mature body used to playing against men so was significantly advanced in comparison to the rest of the 2017 draft cohort. It shouldn’t be a surprise then that he outperformed most of them in 2018 especially when you consider the quality of the midfield he joined

Why wasn’t he drafted before 2017? I heard Paul Haselby talk about this on 6PR a couple of weeks back and he referred to the fact that Kelly did a lot of work on his game leading into 2017, in particular his disposal, and the improvement was obvious. His stats show a definite spike in 2017 especially his scoreboard impact and inside 50’s. So fair to say he wasn’t doing enough to attract interest from AFL clubs and as much as we and freo both missed his potential so did every other club

Now it’s the end of 2017 and west coast make a bold trade giving up their first pick in the 2018 “super draft” to Gold Coast in exchange for a trio of picks in the 2017 draft, said to be quite shallow, and, quite brilliantly as it turns out, the suns 2nd round pick in 2018. The common perception was we’d likely traded away a top 10 pick in a strong draft for a bunch of later picks in a shallow one. By way of justification west coast maintained there was some talent in the 21-40 range that they had their eye on. Without question Tim Kelly was one of those players that we hoped to pick up and triggered a very ballsy trade.

So draft night rolls around and our first pick - plenty of information suggesting we’d take Oscar Allen but turns out a KPP our recruiters rated top 5 was still on the board and the gun mids were gone. They jumped on Brander like a seagull on a stray chip expecting it would cost them a crack at Allen. To their surprise he’s still there when the first of our traded picks (21) from the suns comes up and they grab a second stray chip

My suspicion was that had Allen not still been available we’d have taken Kelly with this pick, a view that’s been confirmed by another poster I trust. We still had pick 26 to come so could get Kelly then and didn’t want to risk missing Allen

Turns out Geelong had their eye on Kelly and selected him with pick 24, ignoring the potential flight risk he posed. We went on to pick Ryan, Ainsworth and Petrucelle with our other 2nd picks who all played games in their first AFL season at a club that’s made a home prelim giving credence the the clubs position that there was talent in that 21-40 bracket

Yeah we “missed” Kelly but only after making a risky trade that was scoffed at by many draft “experts” and was designed in part to enable us to draft Kelly, then selecting a player considered by some to be the best tall in the draft (promising signs from Brander so far but not enough to confirm that assertion) and Oscar Allen ahead of Kelly

For the record Freo only had picks 2 and 5 to use before Kelly was taken and they would have been laughed at mercilessly had they gone that early

So to the numpties that want to have a crack at the WA clubs for not noticing Kelly, do some research and wait a couple or so years to see how the talents of Brander and Allen develop before getting too smug

Oh and also ponder how the rest of the AFL, including Geelong, with their vast recruiting networks left Kelly on the board through 4 drafts and 23 picks in the 2017 draft

TLDR - Oscar Allen is going to be a jet and we were right to take him over Kelly
Click to expand...
Great post ...
Makes you wonder if WC baited
W Powell as a stray chip to GCS to have a chance at O Allen...
 
Keys said:
I know you didn’t mention Tim Kelly but I think it’s a good launch pad for a rant I’ve been sitting on for quite some time

Let’s be clear, Tim Kelly put together an exceptional first season in the AFL and probably exceeded everyone’s expectations. This lead to the common narrative (from over east in particular) on how the the two WA clubs ****** up by not drafting him when he’d been right under their noses for years.

Firstly it should be pointed out that Kelly entered the AFL as a 23 year old with 5 years and 93 games at WAFL league level behind him. He wasn’t your regular first year player but a mature body used to playing against men so was significantly advanced in comparison to the rest of the 2017 draft cohort. It shouldn’t be a surprise then that he outperformed most of them in 2018 especially when you consider the quality of the midfield he joined

Why wasn’t he drafted before 2017? I heard Paul Haselby talk about this on 6PR a couple of weeks back and he referred to the fact that Kelly did a lot of work on his game leading into 2017, in particular his disposal, and the improvement was obvious. His stats show a definite spike in 2017 especially his scoreboard impact and inside 50’s. So fair to say he wasn’t doing enough to attract interest from AFL clubs and as much as we and freo both missed his potential so did every other club

Now it’s the end of 2017 and west coast make a bold trade giving up their first pick in the 2018 “super draft” to Gold Coast in exchange for a trio of picks in the 2017 draft, said to be quite shallow, and, quite brilliantly as it turns out, the suns 2nd round pick in 2018. The common perception was we’d likely traded away a top 10 pick in a strong draft for a bunch of later picks in a shallow one. By way of justification west coast maintained there was some talent in the 21-40 range that they had their eye on. Without question Tim Kelly was one of those players that we hoped to pick up and triggered a very ballsy trade.

So draft night rolls around and our first pick - plenty of information suggesting we’d take Oscar Allen but turns out a KPP our recruiters rated top 5 was still on the board and the gun mids were gone. They jumped on Brander like a seagull on a stray chip expecting it would cost them a crack at Allen. To their surprise he’s still there when the first of our traded picks (21) from the suns comes up and they grab a second stray chip

My suspicion was that had Allen not still been available we’d have taken Kelly with this pick, a view that’s been confirmed by another poster I trust. We still had pick 26 to come so could get Kelly then and didn’t want to risk missing Allen

Turns out Geelong had their eye on Kelly and selected him with pick 24, ignoring the potential flight risk he posed. We went on to pick Ryan, Ainsworth and Petrucelle with our other 2nd picks who all played games in their first AFL season at a club that’s made a home prelim giving credence the the clubs position that there was talent in that 21-40 bracket

Yeah we “missed” Kelly but only after making a risky trade that was scoffed at by many draft “experts” and was designed in part to enable us to draft Kelly, then selecting a player considered by some to be the best tall in the draft (promising signs from Brander so far but not enough to confirm that assertion) and Oscar Allen ahead of Kelly

For the record Freo only had picks 2 and 5 to use before Kelly was taken and they would have been laughed at mercilessly had they gone that early

So to the numpties that want to have a crack at the WA clubs for not noticing Kelly, do some research and wait a couple or so years to see how the talents of Brander and Allen develop before getting too smug

Oh and also ponder how the rest of the AFL, including Geelong, with their vast recruiting networks left Kelly on the board through 4 drafts and 23 picks in the 2017 draft

TLDR - Oscar Allen is going to be a jet and we were right to take him over Kelly
Click to expand...
O Allen looks to be a true gun on his two games. While Brander hasn't shown much at AFL level he was thrown to the wolves against Sydney to effectively lead a forward line of kids against Sydney's Defence. However he kept running and showed some real class on a few occasions. I am very happy to have the two rather than Kelly. Yes we need mid strength but JK replacements don't come along every day. The club has made the right strategic decisions.
 
Monocle said:
Strategic move, very clever, get Blayne this year and then pick up his best Mate next year..... The Grommet From Middle Earth..... AKA...... Hayden Ballantyne
Click to expand...
I thought his nicname was gollum?

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Truckosaurus said:
I'd be disappointed if we traded the farm for Kelly. He looks good, but he's playing fourth mid in a team with two Brownlow winners and a multiple AA before him. If we bring him over expecting him to produce the same but much higher up the pecking order in terms of opposition targets, we're probably going to be very disappointed. Des Hedland looked great at Brisbane and crap at Freo because of this. Wellingham cost us a first round pick and we ended up playing him in the backline when he wasn't producing in the midfield because of this.

Note: I'm not saying I don't want Kelly or that I think he's a bad player, but I'm not confident that he'd be as good for us if we only have Shuey as a tag-target above him (assuming Gaff goes).
Click to expand...
Yeo is our best midfielder these days

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Chris_6678 said:
Big talk he was a flight risk.
Click to expand...

Yeah heard this from the Brisbane camp also; they formed the impression after interviewing that if he didn't go to Geelong or a big Melbourne club that he would leave as soon as possible.

So conceivably we may have taken a similar view of him.
 
Worpel has come in and had an impact at Hawthorn but lets see how it all sits after 5 years in the system. Worpel has a bit of a Langford vibe to me which is not all upsides.

Ainsworth has got something about him that I like. He can find the footy. Hopefully he gets helped with his kicking action and starts to see some payoff from the gym.
 
RookiePick said:
Worpel has come in and had an impact at Hawthorn but lets see how it all sits after 5 years in the system. Worpel has a bit of a Langford vibe to me which is not all upsides.

Ainsworth has got something about him that I like. He can find the footy. Hopefully he gets helped with his kicking action and starts to see some payoff from the gym.
Click to expand...

Worpel goes hard but his disposal is very iffy.

In that final he sprayed a few and lost composure kicking straight to the opposition.

Ainsworth also has disposal issues but is a hard nut.

Will be interesting to compare in 3-4 years time.
 
Whispers aplenty at the moment, with very little to substantiate them.

A lot of activity in the coming trade period seems to be hinging upon Fremantle and GWS.

GWS are having a salary cap firesale. They want to obviously lessen their cap pressure, but are seeking high draft picks for trading currency. There is a bit of Moneyball going on with GWS looking to recruit specific players that satisfy particular metrics. Who those players are is being kept a tightly guarded secret as they are fearful of inflating their price. Appears they are willing to let two or three big names to depart in order to gain these targets.

Fremantle enter the fray as they are making no secret that pick 5 (and potentially pick 4) are on the table for the right offer.


I have been hearing some pretty crazy speculation from usually calm people this week.

Things like Hogan, Lobb & T.Kelly ending up at Fremantle and Shiel to Geelong. Or Coniglio and M.McGovern to Carlton in a way that assures Adelaide of getting Lukosius and Rankine.

Finals may still be going on but the silly season is already into full swing.
 
Keys said:
I know you didn’t mention Tim Kelly but I think it’s a good launch pad for a rant I’ve been sitting on for quite some time

Let’s be clear, Tim Kelly put together an exceptional first season in the AFL and probably exceeded everyone’s expectations. This lead to the common narrative (from over east in particular) on how the the two WA clubs ****** up by not drafting him when he’d been right under their noses for years.

Firstly it should be pointed out that Kelly entered the AFL as a 23 year old with 5 years and 93 games at WAFL league level behind him. He wasn’t your regular first year player but a mature body used to playing against men so was significantly advanced in comparison to the rest of the 2017 draft cohort. It shouldn’t be a surprise then that he outperformed most of them in 2018 especially when you consider the quality of the midfield he joined

Why wasn’t he drafted before 2017? I heard Paul Haselby talk about this on 6PR a couple of weeks back and he referred to the fact that Kelly did a lot of work on his game leading into 2017, in particular his disposal, and the improvement was obvious. His stats show a definite spike in 2017 especially his scoreboard impact and inside 50’s. So fair to say he wasn’t doing enough to attract interest from AFL clubs and as much as we and freo both missed his potential so did every other club

Now it’s the end of 2017 and west coast make a bold trade giving up their first pick in the 2018 “super draft” to Gold Coast in exchange for a trio of picks in the 2017 draft, said to be quite shallow, and, quite brilliantly as it turns out, the suns 2nd round pick in 2018. The common perception was we’d likely traded away a top 10 pick in a strong draft for a bunch of later picks in a shallow one. By way of justification west coast maintained there was some talent in the 21-40 range that they had their eye on. Without question Tim Kelly was one of those players that we hoped to pick up and triggered a very ballsy trade.

So draft night rolls around and our first pick - plenty of information suggesting we’d take Oscar Allen but turns out a KPP our recruiters rated top 5 was still on the board and the gun mids were gone. They jumped on Brander like a seagull on a stray chip expecting it would cost them a crack at Allen. To their surprise he’s still there when the first of our traded picks (21) from the suns comes up and they grab a second stray chip

My suspicion was that had Allen not still been available we’d have taken Kelly with this pick, a view that’s been confirmed by another poster I trust. We still had pick 26 to come so could get Kelly then and didn’t want to risk missing Allen

Turns out Geelong had their eye on Kelly and selected him with pick 24, ignoring the potential flight risk he posed. We went on to pick Ryan, Ainsworth and Petrucelle with our other 2nd picks who all played games in their first AFL season at a club that’s made a home prelim giving credence the the clubs position that there was talent in that 21-40 bracket

Yeah we “missed” Kelly but only after making a risky trade that was scoffed at by many draft “experts” and was designed in part to enable us to draft Kelly, then selecting a player considered by some to be the best tall in the draft (promising signs from Brander so far but not enough to confirm that assertion) and Oscar Allen ahead of Kelly

For the record Freo only had picks 2 and 5 to use before Kelly was taken and they would have been laughed at mercilessly had they gone that early

So to the numpties that want to have a crack at the WA clubs for not noticing Kelly, do some research and wait a couple or so years to see how the talents of Brander and Allen develop before getting too smug

Oh and also ponder how the rest of the AFL, including Geelong, with their vast recruiting networks left Kelly on the board through 4 drafts and 23 picks in the 2017 draft

TLDR - Oscar Allen is going to be a jet and we were right to take him over Kelly
Click to expand...
Thanks, good post, that completely answered all my questions on Kelly and the club!

I get that he's a walk up starter and we need midfield depth going forward,
but curious who drops out of best 22 for Kelly,
AhChee, Venables, Sheed...Ainsworth?....Mutimer and Partington gone?...
Easier fit if Gaff goes, but if Gaff stays?
 
Last edited:
Astro7 said:
Thanks, good post, that completely answered all my questions on Kelly and the club!

I get that he's a walk up starter and we need midfield depth going forward,
but curious who drops out of best 22 for Kelly,
AhChee, Venables, Sheed...Ainsworth?....Mutimer and Partington gone?...
Easier fit if Gaff goes, but if Gaff stays?
Click to expand...

Thats a good problem to have.
 
eagles rule said:
Why would you mention Powell ?? Did I miss something with Wce being linked to Powell ?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...
W Powell was 2017 draft bolter -pick 19...didn't play in the under 18 carnival but was consistent at Claremont colts, an 185cm, elite runner/inside outside mid...some believe he was a target recruit for WC late 2nd round picks in 2017 draft.
 
30stm said:
W Powell was 2017 draft bolter -pick 19...didn't play in the under 18 carnival but was consistent at Claremont colts, an 185cm, elite runner/inside outside mid...some believe he was a target recruit for WC late 2nd round picks in 2017 draft.
Click to expand...
Glad we didnt get him,reeks of a wasted weedon type pick

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30stm said:
W Powell was 2017 draft bolter -pick 19...didn't play in the under 18 carnival but was consistent at Claremont colts, an 185cm, elite runner/inside outside mid...some believe he was a target recruit for WC late 2nd round picks in 2017 draft.[/)

Oh ok I m beginning to see where your going with this ..

Do you think Rawlings accidentally let it slip to GCS when negotiating to get another 2 nd rd Pick ?


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Click to expand...
 
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