Demetriou blocked Tassie team bid

[madmug]

VFL is turning into the AFL reserves/U21 league, a club wouldn't want to go back to that league. One of the lesser or country leagues is probably of a higher standard.

People are over-dramatising our need for a new base, we need to increase our supporter base, that is obvious, but that can be achieved without moving. We need minor corrective surgery, not a frontal lobotomy.

We have over 28k members now and will probably end up in the 33-35k region this year and we haven't cracked into the top 8 yet, if we can build that up to 40k and start to have some on-field success the only missing puzzle is Docklands becoming a clean stadium and that is a matter of when and not if. How clean it becomes is unknown at this stage.

I am more worried about the other smaller clubs who haven't had to be ultra competitive because they have been somewhat insulated in the on-field success window and have elevated support levels but have been barely more viable financially than us, once the on-field pendulum swings and we are in the top 4 window and the other clubs are in the bottom 4 window then it is just going to be a different club in the spotlight.

Realistically 6 Victorian clubs are relatively safe and 4 will shift radically based on where they are at on-field.

The solution is to use the good times to remove accumulated debt and start investing for the future, the clubs that don't or haven't are the ones that come under pressure.

The problem for some clubs is that they are at the bottom of the recruiting cycle. GWS & GC will suck in a lot of the best talent for a while yet. Courtesy of AFL money. The pressure is on the 10 Victorian clubs because that is where the change has to come to make it a proper national league with teams positioned across the country. If any of them falter due to poor performance both on & off field, they could be in trouble. The NRL has the same long term problem, too many teams in Sydney for the good of the game.
The American NFL moved teams out of the North East of the country to acheive some sort of balance. They AFL copy the NFL in most things. This too I believe.

 

[Plogs]

Just spent the weekend in Hobart and understand why AFL does not want a team in Tassie:
1. The place is a shithole - the people of Tassie will even tell you this
2. The place is 20 years behind
3. It seems the average age of people living there is about 50 because young people get the hell out of there

You might get reasonable crowds to games, but the team would not be commercially viable.

Definitely agree with Vlad on this one!

1. I live in Tasmania and love it. All the people i know here love it as well.
2. Good.
3. Rubbish.

How old are you, 12?

 

[Verdun]

1. I live in Tasmania and love it. All the people i know here love it as well.
2. Good.
3. Rubbish.

How old are you, 12?

good post Plogs - bottom line is Tas is propping up two teams at the moment and the AFL is quite happy with that!

I live in Tas as well and love it - spent the week in Adelaide last week and the fact that there are two teams there and not one in Tas is wrong.

 

[The_Reaper]

good post Plogs - bottom line is Tas is propping up two teams at the moment and the AFL is quite happy with that!

I live in Tas as well and love it - spent the week in Adelaide last week and the fact that there are two teams there and not one in Tas is wrong.

The fact that Melbourne has 9 teams and Tassie none is the bigger wrong.

 

[blaze036]

Once GWS and GC become financially self suffecient tasmania can be looked at seriouslly.

BEST cast scenario is in 5 years time 2 new teams come in with a huge new tv rights deal. Nth Queensland, a 3rd sydney team or a 3rd wa team would all be up there, obviouslly a lot can happen in 5 years. Seems far too early to put another new team in sydney though. and probabyl too early for a 3rd perth team as well... and i doubt the afl would want to go to 19 teams, which means a relocation or tasmania gets put on hold again is most likely

 

[Tas]

The problem for some clubs is that they are at the bottom of the recruiting cycle. GWS & GC will suck in a lot of the best talent for a while yet. Courtesy of AFL money. The pressure is on the 10 Victorian clubs because that is where the change has to come to make it a proper national league with teams positioned across the country. If any of them falter due to poor performance both on & off field, they could be in trouble. The NRL has the same long term problem, too many teams in Sydney for the good of the game.
The American NFL moved teams out of the North East of the country to acheive some sort of balance. They AFL copy the NFL in most things. This too I believe.

NFL has the mandate to do that, AFL doesn't. All bar the Packers are run for profit so teams will move if there is a monetary incentive to move. Clubs here do not have the same motivation, we turned down a $100 gazillion dollars by the AFL, it is not a factor of money.

Realistically, most national states/territories that aren't already serviced do not have the population or economic base to support an AFL team, in the last ten years we have escalated the cost of running an AFL club by so much it is near on impossible for smaller cities to sustain a club on their own and the jury is still out in terms of even a city the size of Sydney can sustain two teams.

Clubs exist to service their members and unless the club is on the verge of collapse then the members will not want their club to move, that is the crux of the problem and with each year that passes the gap widens significantly and even now a team like GC and GWS have ten years of subsidisation, it is a massive financial burden to establish a new 'franchise'.

Nobody is really talking about the economics of it and who is going to fund this fairly tale national competition, because what you propose is to strip the AFL of its major source of revenue and substitute it for one that is an economic burden.

 

[R00StaR]

The problem for some clubs is that they are at the bottom of the recruiting cycle. GWS & GC will suck in a lot of the best talent for a while yet. Courtesy of AFL money. The pressure is on the 10 Victorian clubs because that is where the change has to come to make it a proper national league with teams positioned across the country. If any of them falter due to poor performance both on & off field, they could be in trouble. The NRL has the same long term problem, too many teams in Sydney for the good of the game.
The American NFL moved teams out of the North East of the country to acheive some sort of balance. They AFL copy the NFL in most things. This too I believe.

People just conveniently ignore that we have 2 major football codes and one that isnt AFL dominates 2 of the 3 largest states.

Some how people think the answer for the AFL is to get rid of the Vic teams (the second largest) state, yeah what a great plan. The AFL know without the strong base Vic brings theres nothing, people need to get over the need to have some even spread of teams around the country, it just wont happen in our life times, probably not ever.

 

[Verdun]

The fact that Melbourne has 9 teams and Tassie none is the bigger wrong.

agreed

 

[madmug]

People just conveniently ignore that we have 2 major football codes and one that isnt AFL dominates 2 of the 3 largest states.

Some how people think the answer for the AFL is to get rid of the Vic teams (the second largest) state, yeah what a great plan. The AFL know without the strong base Vic brings theres nothing, people need to get over the need to have some even spread of teams around the country, it just wont happen in our life times, probably not ever.

Unfortunately you forget the obvious point that Victorian teams are having to 'sell' games outside of Victoria so they can survive in an over saturated market. How much more bloody obvious can it be? At some stage it will come down to the good of the national game, & not just for the good of some suburbs in Melbourne.

 

[R00StaR]

Unfortunately you forget the obvious point that Victorian teams are having to 'sell' games outside of Victoria so they can survive in an over saturated market. How much more bloody obvious can it be? At some stage it will come down to the good of the national game, & not just for the good of some suburbs in Melbourne.

They are selling games because of the poor stadium deals, why else do you think they make mega bucks off a 12-15,000 crowd at other venues and lose money at Docklands with 20k? Interstate people eat more while at the games or something? Its the stadium deal short and simple, once that is sorted out sometime in the future all Vic clubs will be rock solid.

If it were so vital for the comp (having a Tassie team) why hasnt it been done already? Think they AFL are in the business of chopping their nose off for fun? Im all for Tassie having their own team, but taking aim at Melb clubs to get that is poor form imo. Melbourne is growing massively, these clubs will only get stronger and stronger.

 

[madmug]

They are selling games because of the poor stadium deals, why else do you think they make mega bucks off a 12-15,000 crowd at other venues and lose money at Docklands with 20k? Interstate people eat more while at the games or something? Its the stadium deal short and simple, once that is sorted out sometime in the future all Vic clubs will be rock solid.

If it were so vital for the comp (having a Tassie team) why hasnt it been done already? Think they AFL are in the business of chopping their nose off for fun? Im all for Tassie having their own team, but taking aim at Melb clubs to get that is poor form imo. Melbourne is growing massively, these clubs will only get stronger and stronger.

Poor Stadium deals? Many Victorian teams have been in financial shyte for years, infact that was the reason they started the AFL, most of them were in debt in the VFL days. Their are simply too many teams fighting for survival.
Perth & Brisbane are growing faster than Melbourne. The current economic conditions are playing merry hell with the national economic position. Dont forget that Melbourne was a basket case in the 1970's & 80's. Things are cyclical. 10 teams in Victoria is too many for the health of the competition. Its the same problem the NRL has in Sydney.

 

[Demonoid]

Poor Stadium deals? Many Victorian teams have been in financial shyte for years, infact that was the reason they started the AFL, most of them were in debt in the VFL days. Their are simply too many teams fighting for survival.
Perth & Brisbane are growing faster than Melbourne. The current economic conditions are playing merry hell with the national economic position. Dont forget that Melbourne was a basket case in the 1970's & 80's. Things are cyclical. 10 teams in Victoria is too many for the health of the competition. Its the same problem the NRL has in Sydney.

Agree with this. North Melbourne are expendible. Did the AFL weaken when the Swans moved north and Fitzroy merged with Brisbane? Of course not. North's existance in Melbourne adds very little to TV rights and other revenue streams as a whole. A future move to Tasmania, with the Tas Governments support, would be perfect, and will ensure that when the Roos play in Melbourne, there will always be some healthy support a la Swans and Lions fans. Its a win/win for all concerned. North keep their club alive, Tas get a team. Whats there not to like

 

[longsuffreosupp]

Agree with this. North Melbourne are expendible. Did the AFL weaken when the Swans moved north and Fitzroy merged with Brisbane? Of course not. North's existance in Melbourne adds very little to TV rights and other revenue streams as a whole. A future move to Tasmania, with the Tas Governments support, would be perfect, and will ensure that when the Roos play in Melbourne, there will always be some healthy support a la Swans and Lions fans. Its a win/win for all concerned. North keep their club alive, Tas get a team. Whats there not to like

Or North can merge with Melbourne, become a super club, and give Tasmania their own club. What's there not to like.

 

[Demonoid]

Or North can merge with Melbourne, become a super club, and give Tasmania their own club. What's there not to like.

Yes but Melbourne have more members, more crowds and more money than North. Not to mention it being the oldest football club in Australia and carries the 'Melbourne' name. If any Melbourne club should merge with North, it should be the bulldogs. Two poorest clubs, similar colours, similar geographic regions, similar socio-economic demographic etc.

But thats not the point - I think merging 2 victorian clubs would be a disaster. The Swans and Lions have proven that relocations done the right way can still bear fruit.

 

[sherb]

It's sad how many people here think the best Tassie deserves is a relocated Melbourne club.

A very easy suggestion to make of course when you don't have an interest in Tasmanian football and it's not your club you suggest move there.

 

[Demonoid]

For the record I would love for Tasmania to have its 'own' club. However, I don't think its is sustainable having 10 teams in Victoria. Rather than loosing a club, and rather than Tasmania not having anything, I believe a relocated club (whoever that may be, but obviously you need to start with the poorest/least supported) is the best answer.

 

[Papa G]

For the record I would love for Tasmania to have its 'own' club. However, I don't think its is sustainable having 10 teams in Victoria. Rather than loosing a club, and rather than Tasmania not having anything, I believe a relocated club (whoever that may be, but obviously you need to start with the poorest/least supported) is the best answer.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[madmug]

Agree with this. North Melbourne are expendible. Did the AFL weaken when the Swans moved north and Fitzroy merged with Brisbane? Of course not. North's existance in Melbourne adds very little to TV rights and other revenue streams as a whole. A future move to Tasmania, with the Tas Governments support, would be perfect, and will ensure that when the Roos play in Melbourne, there will always be some healthy support a la Swans and Lions fans. Its a win/win for all concerned. North keep their club alive, Tas get a team. Whats there not to like

Expendable? Considering where Melbourne has been since 1964, thats a bit rude dont you think?.
What we dont want is some 'expendable' or busted arse team thrown out of the town. Like other teams, we have our own footy identity. Its been that way for over 150 years. We want a team that, like the Tassie Tigers do in cricket, would reflect that.

 

[Demonoid]

Expendable? Considering where Melbourne has been since 1964, thats a bit rude dont you think?

How is it 'rude'? Does it matter what club I follow? My points are still valid and remain. In any case, Melbourne Football Club wrote the first set of rules for goddsake!

What we dont want is some 'expendable' or busted arse team thrown out of the town. Like other teams, we have our own footy identity. Its been that way for over 150 years. We want a team that, like the Tassie Tigers do in cricket, would reflect that.

Look I agree with you - it would be great if Tassie gets their own team and it'd be great if Fitzroy and heck even University were still around! But we dont live in an ideal dream world do we?

 

[madmug]

How is it 'rude'? Does it matter what club I follow? My points are still valid and remain. In any case, Melbourne Football Club wrote the first set of rules for goddsake!



Look I agree with you - it would be great if Tassie gets their own team and it'd be great if Fitzroy and heck even University were still around! But we dont live in an ideal dream world do we?

Its rude because you trying to push another club under the bus to save your own club. In fact by most measures North have been far better than Melbourne have for at least the last 40 years!!!

 

[Chewy]

It's a stupid headline. It implies that Tasmania actually stood a chance of getting their own team, but they were unfairly denied. They were never a chance of obtaining the licence for the 18th franchise. Not a snowflake's chance in hell. The AFL "blocked" Tassie's bid just as they would've blocked Bendigo or Albury's bid had those towns also lobbied for an AFL team. Ignored is a better word...

When the AFL first admitted West Coast, Brisbane and Adelaide into the competition, the talk (from AFL circles) was the need for a 2nd team in Perth and Adelalde and eventually, years down the track, 2nd teams in Sydney and Queensland. The AFL have NEVER EVER entertained the idea of a Tasmanian team. Their charter has been to expand the game and grow the money pot. Hence why they've expanded into major population centres up north.

Q. What would the AFL gain by admitting a new Tasmanian team?
A. Nothing.

The only people who can't grasp this simple fact are children, stupid people or blinkered Tasmanians like Tim Lane

 

[Rob]

They are selling games because of the poor stadium deals, why else do you think they make mega bucks off a 12-15,000 crowd at other venues and lose money at Docklands with 20k? Interstate people eat more while at the games or something? Its the stadium deal short and simple, once that is sorted out sometime in the future all Vic clubs will be rock solid.

North Melbourne Adult 11 game GA membership (seated): $185 ($16.82 per game)
North Melbourne Tasmanian 2 game GA membership (standing room): $80 ($40 per game)

DERP, it's the stadium deal!

Interstate people don't eat more, they pay more. Christ, over here you can't get an adult membership for under $270 a year. And that's the really shit seats.

 

[madmug]

It's a stupid headline. It implies that Tasmania actually stood a chance of getting their own team, but they were unfairly denied. They were never a chance of obtaining the licence for the 18th franchise. Not a snowflake's chance in hell. The AFL "blocked" Tassie's bid just as they would've blocked Bendigo or Albury's bid had those towns also lobbied for an AFL team. Ignored is a better word...

When the AFL first admitted West Coast, Brisbane and Adelaide into the competition, the talk (from AFL circles) was the need for a 2nd team in Perth and Adelalde and eventually, years down the track, 2nd teams in Sydney and Queensland. The AFL have NEVER EVER entertained the idea of a Tasmanian team. Their charter has been to expand the game and grow the money pot. Hence why they've expanded into major population centres up north.

Q. What would the AFL gain by admitting a new Tasmanian team?
A. Nothing.

The only people who can't grasp this simple fact are children, stupid people or blinkered Tasmanians like Tim Lane

Spoken like a true Hawthorn supporter. Greedy & self interested. Only playing in Tasmania to take as much as you can to avoid becoming another financial basket case in Victoria. Thanks for your positive & insightful comments.

 

[madmug]

North Melbourne Adult 11 game GA membership (seated): $185 ($16.82 per game)
North Melbourne Tasmanian 2 game GA membership (standing room): $80 ($40 per game)

DERP, it's the stadium deal!

Interstate people don't eat more, they pay more. Christ, over here you can't get an adult membership for under $270 a year. And that's the really shit seats.

Please dont confuse their deluded imagination with the facts. This is BF land after all

 

[Jables]

Spoken like a true Hawthorn supporter. Greedy & self interested. Only playing in Tasmania to take as much as you can to avoid becoming another financial basket case in Victoria. Thanks for your positive & insightful comments.

And I'm sure you have no personal stake in this at all, but nice way to not address his points while trashing Hawthorn.