Dennis Pagan = Most Overrated coach in history?

[dipper86]

Carlton supporters, Pagan is a great coach but do you think he is the best man for your club right at the moment,
he is getting paid 400 or 500 dollars( which is money you dont have) to rebuild a list which i think any coach can do aslong as he has the right support staff around him, Pagan is a coach that can win you premieships as long as the personel is there, he is a great motivaor,
Do you think you should have got someone else to do the rebuilding job?

 

[GottaLoveCarlton]

Give him till his final year in his newly renewed contract, and i bet he'll have the blues in final contention. If not...he has accomplished absolutely nothing

 

[medusala]

You are looking at the wrong club for most overrated coach.

Who won one flag with the "best team ever"? Look no further.

As for Matthews, he took an extremely average Collingwood team to a flag. Deserves kudos for that alone.

 

[Jimthegreat]

The guy can really coach but his man mangement skills have been poor since he has been at Carlton. Hence he has lost the players twice in 3 years. That come from a player's flatmate. He unmercifully sprays some to the point they are scared of making a mistake while others he doesn't speak to at all. He shows no faith at all and retreats to flooding at the first sign of things going wrong. Some weeks the players simply don't have a go. Even a wizzer wok you don't win unless you can play footy so something was wrong. Maybe he struggles to cope that aren't travelling as well as he would like and places too much expectation on them.

It's not often the worst side actually finishes on the bottom but the least committed side. Some get a new coach and rocket up the ladder with a similar list. The bulldogs are an example of that. As respected as he was by the time Laidley came to the Roos some Roos players were quoted as saying they we happy with the release of the pressure valve. Just recently he changed some his ways a little, allowed the players more freedom in their game rather than flooding all the time, which helps the players develop their own skills. He has also allowed others to take training and speak at the 1/4 and 3/4 time breaks. Some results, until yesterday, had started to come (may have been playing for draft picks yesterday). Hopefully it continues into next year although I like someone like assistant coach and Nothern Bullants (Carlton feeder team) coach Barry Mitchell to do the job as his coaching skills are excellent and he has the entire Northern Bullants team really playing for him.

Interesting season, a wizzer wok, a possble VFL premiership and a wooden spoon. Don't want to give the spoon up now as it puts us in a position to get the first pick and first "dibs" on any top uncontracted player available in the pre-season draft withouit having to trade. we've worked hard for that spoon, don't want to blow it now by actually winning!!!!

 

[Rod Stroker]

A premiership compared to a day series Premiership HARDLY!.

That's not the point. You said he wouldn't deliver Carlton a premiership. That is not true. He has already taken them to a pre-season premiership. Which is 1 more premiership than what the Bombers have won in the last 4 years.

 

[Dont think Do]

I guess he's to blame for losing the draft picks for salary cap breaches before he got there too?????

 

[Bombers 2003]

That's not the point. You said he wouldn't deliver Carlton a premiership. That is not true. He has already taken them to a pre-season premiership. Which is 1 more premiership than what the Bombers have won in the last 4 years.

But it's a Wizard Cup for god's sake.If that really means anything at all.

 

[ECHUCABOY]

Leigh Matthews doesn't deserve to be in this group. Have never rated him any better than ordainary. I would include Pagan, great coach, unfortunately carlton just don't have the talent.

Your an absolute joke mate.............an absolute joke. 4 premierships not enough for ya?

 

[Outoftheblue]

Re: Denis Pagan = Most Overrated coach in history?

The list was in such poor shape it is difficult to judge Pagan's performance. It's not just the draft penalties, it was the high picks traded away in previous years and the disappointing return from players who were drafted high. He inherited not only the worst-managed list in the competition (with the best players ageing or locked into expensive long-term contracts), but little chance to do anything about the top end of the list for two years.

The difference with the Carlton Pagan inherited and various other struggling teams who have made rapid rises is that they tended to have young talent on their list - not necessarily ready, but at least in the pipeline.

Getting the 2004 list to 10 wins was perhaps one of Pagan's best coaching performances, but if anything that only hurt the rebuilding of the list.

His inability to make a poor list perform substantially better for an extended period show that there is a limit to what even a good coach can achieve. Bearing in mind the club's finances, we probably would have been better off over the past few years with a younger, cheaper coach. Mind you, given our results, the pressure on an unproven coach would have been just about unbearable.