Play Nice Derailed, (The Place to Continue Off-Topic Discussion)

[ipswichpies]

I mean, why would he? Assisting Bucks’ success, as you put it, was going to come at a direct cost to Malthouse. Anybody with any familiarity with Mick would know he wouldn’t lean that way

Then he should not have agreed to the plan then should he, and we could have got rid of him sooner because he was out the door if he did not
agree.

He had 10 yrs to gain his 1st success and if he had not been such a petulant prick he would he been able to go back to back, we peaked a month too soon that season and as most of us remember we had to win the pre season cup.

Malthouse was as big a reason we never won in 2011 as any other,need we mention Jolly or Reid or H shaw.

 

[No SPIN]

What incentive does Mick have to mentor his direct replacement?

Apart from his contractual obligations - I’d add Good will, integrity, honesty, loyalty to the club - just like Roos in similar circumstances.

 

[No SPIN]

Mick was a tad busy coaching a side at the pointy end of the ladder.
And would Bucks really have wanted Mick around after he took over, knowing full well the players still wanted Mick to coach? It would have been an untenable situation.

Big difference between poisoning the well and keeping it pristine.

 

[No SPIN]

You think that had nothing to do with Mick? That was my point.

Buckley was more than an average coach.

Correct - they don’t hand out “Coach of the Year” awards on street corners.

 

[sr36]

I think the handover issues are being exaggerated here. I was against it from the start, but it wasn't as bad as you guys are making out. When the handover was decided on many fans were running out of patience with Mick and wanted him gone. We weren't in the happy place we were after 2010.

To say that Buckley had no experience is really not true. At the very least he had two years experience at Collingwood. This was not uncommon for coaches at time, or even Sam Mitchell now. Remember that one reason this happened is that Bucks was about to be offered the North job.

The thing that killed the handover was Mick's inability to accept it. There's a very good chance we'd have gone back to back had Mick shelved his grievances for the benefit of the team and Buckley's start to his role would have been far smoother.

He had no experience when he was signed to take over as head coach - the two years came after that.

 

[Bianconeri]

Apart from his contractual obligations - I’d add Good will, integrity, honesty, loyalty to the club - just like Roos in similar circumstances.

And what incentive does he have to act will all those qualities? Most coaches are incentivised by another coaching contract but Collingwood took that off the table.

The Roos situation wasn’t in any way similar.

 

[Bianconeri]

You think that had nothing to do with Mick? That was my point.

Buckley was more than an average coach.

Yes, Bucks coached for ten years. There are plenty of years to asses him without the influence Mick had on the group in 2011 and during those years Bucks was an average coach.

During his coaching career the media our footy department and our president backed him to the hilt and gave him the players he wanted and got rid of the players he didn’t get on. He was given more then a fair go in the end but didn’t deliver.

I also don’t have any sympathy for Bucks for the environment he walked into in 2012 as that was what he chose. Loved him as a player but he really tarnished his name going along with the succession plan.

 

[No SPIN]

And what incentive does he have to act will all those qualities? Most coaches are incentivised by another coaching contract but Collingwood took that off the table.

The Roos situation wasn’t in any way similar.

Roos mentored, Longmire to then replace him.

 

[No SPIN]

Yes, Bucks coached for ten years. There are plenty of years to asses him without the influence Mick had on the group in 2011 and during those years Bucks was an average coach.

During his coaching career the media our footy department and our president backed him to the hilt and gave him the players he wanted and got rid of the players he didn’t get on. He was given more then a fair go in the end but didn’t deliver.

I also don’t have any sympathy for Bucks for the environment he walked into in 2012 as that was what he chose. Loved him as a player but he really tarnished his name going along with the succession plan.

When you said earlier in the year, that Buckley out of envy ( or words to that effect), would not want Fly to succeed.
I think you clearly indicated your lack of objectivity on issues regarding Buckley.

 

[Chameleon75]

The bucks Malthouse wars are so 2020

 

[Doc1763]

Roos mentored, Longmire to then replace him.

Longmire was assistant coach at Sydney from 2002 until 2010. He took over as senior coach in 2011 after 3 seasons of a succession plan under Roos. So, 9 seasons as an assistant, including 3 in a succession plan under a coach who wanted to finish up at the end on 2010 and actually anointed him as his successor.

Nothing like our train wreck at all.

 

[No SPIN]

Longmire was assistant coach at Sydney from 2002 until 2010. He took over as senior coach in 2011 after 3 seasons of a succession plan under Roos. So, 9 seasons as an assistant, including 3 in a succession plan under a coach who wanted to finish up at the end on 2010 and actually anointed him as his successor.

Nothing like our train wreck at all.

Correct - for all the reasons I listed above regarding MM.

 

[Doc1763]

Correct - for all the reasons I listed above regarding MM.

MM was the least of the problems with our version.

 

[No SPIN]

MM was the least of the problems with our version.

If only!!!

 

[Roverjg]

You think that had nothing to do with Mick? That was my point.

Buckley was more than an average coach.

No he wasn't. As in his playing day. He was intolerant of players that were cut from the same cloth. His coaching panel with the exception of Longmire and Buddha were his clones

On SM-N975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Bianconeri]

Roos mentored, Longmire to then replace him.

This happened after the swans premiership window not during it.

 

[sr36]

Roos mentored, Longmire to then replace him.

Longmire wasn't being mentored due to being the best kick of a drop punt the game has seen. He was succeeding Roos because he was the team's highly respected 2ic coach.

 

[3rdMan]

He had no experience when he was signed to take over as head coach - the two years came after that.

Yes true, that's not the only experience though. He was already well known to the club as a person, there are some skills and attributes that can be assessed without the direct experience.

I was against the handover at the time not because of Buckley but because I thought Mick was doing the job and shouldn't have been under the pressure he was.

In the end I believe it happened for two reasons. Hadn't had the success we wanted under Mick and were under pressure to move him on. The Roos were about to sign Buckley. We didn't want to be in a position where we needed to sack Mick an a year or two and to have just lost Buckley to North. Probably too much sentiment in that, but to be honest I'm kind of ok with that and in hindsight happy to have had Bucks as coach.

 

[sr36]

Yes true, that's not the only experience though. He was already well known to the club as a person, there are some skills and attributes that can be assessed without the direct experience.

I was against the handover at the time not because of Buckley but because I thought Mick was doing the job and shouldn't have been under the pressure he was.

In the end I believe it happened for two reasons. Hadn't had the success we wanted under Mick and were under pressure to move him on. The Roos were about to sign Buckley. We didn't want to be in a position where we needed to sack Mick an a year or two and to have just lost Buckley to North. Probably too much sentiment in that, but to be honest I'm kind of ok with that and in hindsight happy to have had Bucks as coach.

I can see that point of view; however I hope we never again hire a Head Coach based on him being a great footballer, rather than having demonstrated coaching expertise and I'm not glad he was our coach. He took over an excellent group of players challenging for flags and left when we had an excellent group of players who started challenging for flags again straight after he left. And the only times we challenged for flags under Bucks was straight after a review of the football department where he was told to back off, stop over-pressuring the players and give the assistants some control - advice which appeared to wear off quickly, despite its effectiveness.

 

[No SPIN]

This happened after the swans premiership window not during it.

Nothing to do with the discussion- we are talking about Roos being a great mentor while MM was just paranoid.

 

[Bianconeri]

Nothing to do with the discussion- we are talking about Roos being a great mentor while MM was a paranoid flog.

It has everything to do with the discussion. Roos isn’t relevant here. Btw the paranoid flog delivered a premiership whilst your golden boy didn’t.

 

[No SPIN]

It has everything to do with the discussion. Roos isn’t relevant here. Btw the paranoid flog delivered a premiership whilst your golden boy didn’t.

I think I've already pointed your rabid lack of objectivity with respect to Buckley.

 

[gouki88]

I think I've already pointed your rabid lack of objectivity with respect to Buckley.

This is quite a funny post 2 posts after calling Mick a “paranoid flog”

 

[Bianconeri]

I think I've already pointed your rabid lack of objectivity with respect to Buckley.

One delivered a flag whilst the other didn’t. I don’t think there are any more objective measures than that…

 

[Kirby]

One delivered a flag whilst the other didn’t. I don’t think there are any more objective measures than that…

Nothing beats the "I reckon" measure in my experience.