Analysis Derek Hine leaves the Pies

[loki04]

Blair played in toe 2010 GF - he wasn't rookied in 2010.

Yeah was listed i think in 2010 but was a rookie in a previous year, accidentally had him in wrong year.

Not that it matters to the point.

 

[loki04]

I think these thoughts stem from what people thought of the picks originally. We are all recruiters at heart but Hine is actually a real one. For Freeman and Scharenberg no one has any idea whether the talent ID was correct or not. They were both cut down by injury from the get go so no one knows how good they could have been.

Which makes them a bust imo. Especially given the limited games played and never really looking likely at AFL level.


Where as Sinkers was a slow burn but fi ally was looking the part off HBF as a runner. Then Concussion. Imo that's a hit as he was showing AFL capabilities but injury curtailed him.

 

[The Phantom]

Hine often had to draft with the handicap of not having early picks.
He made up with it with a skill using late picks that was remarkable. Exhibit A: Harry Obrien (as he was when drafted)
His effort was remarkable.

But……
Sam McClarty…..

 

[Daicosian silk]

Probably the reason no one seems to remember Hine drafting any talls is because the vast majority of them have been complete busts and therefore totally forgettable (think Sam McLarty and Liam McMahon). He did ok with Ben Reid, Nathan Brown and Chris Dawes at picks 8,10 and 28 in the 2006 draft. Ben Reid became an All Australian and all were key position players in our 2010 premiership team. However I remember watching the draft at the time thinking that we should have selected Jack Riewoldt who ended up at Richmond with pick 13. Was a perfect selection for our needs at the time imo and ended up being a star triple premiership key forward for the Tigers.

Dekka has had some very good hits over the 20 years and is forever a part of 2 premiership sides but l think it’s probably time to bring in some new people with fresh ideas

 

[loki04]

Always need to move forward.

You can analyse Hine’s picks over the years, however, structures and roles change and specific skill sets are required.

I’m sure there is a reason why Hine wasn’t offered a new contract. Without knowing exactly how the department had been operating, maybe the club felt there was a younger member of the recruiting team who better identified talent.

I do agree that recruiters tend to have a time in the sun and then get questionable as their type that they like doesnt suite the game of the time.

Judkins was a good example whom Hine took over from.
He built that great 00 Essendon team then came to us and we got the fat arsed wombat squad.

Hines first decade was a much better from a drafting perspective then his last decade. Maybe the club thinks a fresh approach is needed.

 

[loki04]

That's the draft side of it, some pretty big hits in terms of recruiting from other clubs also.

You'd have to think that Cameron and Crisp were recruiting department hits. Probably Hill. Some of the others we'll never really know where the impetus to chase them and the success in getting them came from.

Yup hard to know who identified traded in players due to coach often having a say in that as well.

 

[TradeDraft]

For all the talk of him being better at late picks - he actually smashed his top 5 picks out of the park, but only had a few opportunities - Thomas, Pendles and Degoey.

In many ways when it comes to recruiters - the real test would be known by the club, but not us chumps - how'd they rate the whole cohort, including blokes we didn't have access to. A lot of luck in terms of who falls to your pick. He said at the time he would have gone Dusty at pick 1 over Scully - just about hte only bloke in footy who would have.

As we Traded away those top picks so did not have much chance with High Draft Picks

 

[Gone Critical]

Part of recruiting is knowing and factoring in personality. That’s a fail on the Stevo pick. He was great 2018 because of our faster ball movement and playing him out of the goalsquare.

2019 onwards with Buckley was slow short kicking which ruined space in the forward line or anything out the back on a turnover. So he was moved up the ground and became completely useless and scared of contact.

Naughton was spoken about as someone we would pick. So that’s a miss taking Stevo over Naughton.

2019 was the year he played his best footy. He stepped up a bit from his very good 1st season. He was kicking more goals per game and getting more of the ball. the 10 game susp after self reporting some bets hurt how that season was peceived

I think the thing that really hurt his career was glandular at the start of 2020 and then the covid bubble where he was a fish out of water. I know his aunty, she described him early on to me as a "lovely little bogan". Said he was just happy getting back to his own suburb and being around family. That description came before 2020.

May have all been different for Stevo if covid didnt hit, different players have different abilities to cope with that sort of stuff.

 

[TradeDraft]

Part of recruiting is knowing and factoring in personality. That’s a fail on the Stevo pick. He was great 2018 because of our faster ball movement and playing him out of the goalsquare.

2019 onwards with Buckley was slow short kicking which ruined space in the forward line or anything out the back on a turnover. So he was moved up the ground and became completely useless and scared of contact.

Naughton was spoken about as someone we would pick. So that’s a miss taking Stevo over Naughton.

That was more Buckley then Hine

There be Many Picks looking back that we should of taken someone else

That be for All Teams

 

[Gone Critical]

Which makes them a bust imo. Especially given the limited games played and never really looking likely at AFL level.


Where as Sinkers was a slow burn but fi ally was looking the part off HBF as a runner. Then Concussion. Imo that's a hit as he was showing AFL capabilities but injury curtailed him.

You can call them a bust. To me they are grouped as unknown because they had seasons and seasons of early development taken away from them. To me this means no one can tell what talent and ability they had to make it if they had a clean run at it in their 1st few seasons. Development, particularly early is also vital and they lost theirs.

 

[TradeDraft]

It wasn't a strong draft. We didn't rate Cripps due to his fitness at the time. They didn't trust unfit guys to develop the necessary dedication and professionalism. The real shame was that Bont didn't get through to us.

2013 AFL National Draft - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

Thanks to Inside Footy saying we loved him

 

[TradeDraft]

Hine often had to draft with the handicap of not having early picks.
He made up with it with a skill using late picks that was remarkable. Exhibit A: Harry Obrien (as he was when drafted)
His effort was remarkable.

But……
Sam McClarty…..

All Recruiters have there Guns they Picked but also have some Duds

 

[King Tut]

So Hine was meant to have a crystal ball and forsee that Freeman, and Scharenberg would cop severe injuries…

Scharenberg was already injured when he was recruited from memory.

 

[Bianconeri]

I think these thoughts stem from what people thought of the picks originally. We are all recruiters at heart but Hine is actually a real one. For Freeman and Scharenberg no one has any idea whether the talent ID was correct or not. They were both cut down by injury from the get go so no one knows how good they could have been.

Hine was a real one, there’s no doubting that. Doesn’t change my thoughts on these picks though. Drafting isn’t an exact science and priorities always change from the top down so I don’t hold it doesn’t change my view that Hine was an excellent recruiter.

Schaz was never a pick that excites me at the time. I thought we picked a fairly vanilla third tall defender with a middling offensive game that and hadn’t played for year.

Freeman excited me a little more because of his pace but once you took that away his game wasn’t much top, a concern many draft watchers expressed at the time.

 

[TradeDraft]

Hine was a real one, there’s no doubting that. Doesn’t change my thoughts on these picks though. Drafting isn’t an exact science and priorities always change from the top down so I don’t hold it doesn’t change my view that Hine was an excellent recruiter.

Schaz was never a pick that excites me at the time. I thought we picked a fairly vanilla third tall defender with a middling offensive game that and hadn’t played for year.

Freeman excited me a little more because of his pace but once you took that away his game wasn’t much top, a concern many draft watchers expressed at the time.

I actually wanted us to Pick Aish instead of Schaz so was bit Dissapointed we went with Schaz at the Time

 

[Apex36]

Thanks to Inside Footy saying we loved him

I think you’re stretching it a bit there Dave. Dalrymple was their head recruiter at the time and he’s up there with the best. His selection was never going to be influenced by reports that we liked Bont. Missing out on him was on us for not trying to get ahead of them by doing a pick swap with the Saints.

 

[Apex36]

Scharenberg was already injured when he was recruited from memory.

Bergs injury was fixed within 6 months of arriving at the club. His knees were a completely separate issue that couldn’t have possibly been foreseen.

 

[Jelly Bean]

I actually wanted us to Pick Aish instead of Schaz so was bit Dissapointed we went with Schaz at the Time

Yeah, well imagine your luck when we able to bring in Aish as well anyway through trade for you to be disappointed with also.

 

[Gone Critical]

Hine was a real one, there’s no doubting that. Doesn’t change my thoughts on these picks though. Drafting isn’t an exact science and priorities always change from the top down so I don’t hold it doesn’t change my view that Hine was an excellent recruiter.

Schaz was never a pick that excites me at the time. I thought we picked a fairly vanilla third tall defender with a middling offensive game that and hadn’t played for year.

Freeman excited me a little more because of his pace but once you took that away his game wasn’t much top, a concern many draft watchers expressed at the time.

As I said I think peoples percetion of these picks come from what they thought of the picks at the time they were taken. Your view is valid but it never got tested. This is where retrospect also gets in the way. You think he hadn't played for a year.

Scharenberg starred in his U18 season, he was AA, dominated for SA in the championships, no 1 interceptor at the champs and rated elite for disposal. Reason he was a top 10 choice, and if anything fell a bit to no 6 after the foot problems arose at the end of the season, was because he was a star U18. There was no not playing for a year.

 

[Dtennent94]

As we Traded away those top picks so did not have much chance with High Draft Picks

It’s super hard to know, but maybe Hine had a say or at least offered an opinion on whether trading the early picks in certain years was a good idea or not.

List management would say ‘we’re looking to trade in Treloar, Beams, etc. do you think we could draft better guys with these picks or not?’

 

[Black_White]

Nick Maxwell.

 

[Anzacday]

Nick Maxwell.

2002 Rookie draft - pre Dekka

 

[76woodenspooners]

I’m guessing that the “by mutual agreement” bit means that we paid him a fairly generous payout.

Anybody have any idea what kind of payout a head of recruiting would get after 21 years of service? 6 months pay? 9 months pay? 12 months pay? More?

As a guide, Essendon offered a “6 figure sum” (> $100,000) to settle with Dodoro after 27 years and Dodoro said that wasn’t enough and took Essendon to FWC - where it was settled. Presumably for more than the original “6 figure sum”.

 

[sr36]

I’m guessing that the “by mutual agreemen” bit means that we paid him a fairly generous payout.

Anybody have any idea what kind of payout a head of recruiting would get after 21 years of service? 6 months pay? 9 months pay? 12 months pay? More?

As a guide, Essendon offered a “6 figure sum” (> $100,000) to settle with Dodoro after 27 years and Dodoro said that wasn’t enough and took Essendon to FWC - where it was settled. Presumably for more than the original “6 figure sum”.

Good question. I would have thought that footy department managers would be on contracts like players - their longevity isn't much greater. But the Dodoro example says differently - unless he was sacked mid contract or was a permanent employee.

 

[sr36]

Hine was a real one, there’s no doubting that. Doesn’t change my thoughts on these picks though. Drafting isn’t an exact science and priorities always change from the top down so I don’t hold it doesn’t change my view that Hine was an excellent recruiter.

Schaz was never a pick that excites me at the time. I thought we picked a fairly vanilla third tall defender with a middling offensive game that and hadn’t played for year.

Freeman excited me a little more because of his pace but once you took that away his game wasn’t much top, a concern many draft watchers expressed at the time.

Unlucky with Langdon's injury - he would have made up for those early misses in that draft.