Analysis Derek Hine leaves the Pies

[sr36]

Guesswork if he would have / wouldn’t have made it
Just my opinion SR36, I didn’t think he was much chop

Fair enough. To be honest, I think the same about Shaz.

 

[ipswichpies]

Stevenson won a rising star in his first year on the list, and played a key role in a grand final team. I think Hine would mark that selection down as a win.

He cannot be blamed for Stephenson that is all on Stevo,who ever thought that Sharenberg would do 3 knees in his time here that is something you cannot planned for and the same goes to a lesser extent re Freeman.

So Hine was meant to have a crystal ball and forsee that Freeman, and Scharenberg would cop severe injuries…

I would call it B------ too myself.

 

[SchuPie]

Fair enough. To be honest, I think the same about Shaz.

I tried to tell myself that he had great potential

 

[swoop42]

Bartel, Enright, Taylor etc. His list goes on and on while ours stops after Jordan De Goey.

Pendlebury and Sidebottom. Number 1 and 2 for games played in the entire storied history of our club.. Jack Crisp closing in on the consecutive games record. Not a bad decision by Hine to included him as the steak knife in the Beams trade now was it?

As for your second assertion.

Maynard, Cox, Howe, Hoskin-Elliott, Murphy, Mihocek, Quaynor, Noble, Cameron, Henry (Geel), McCreery, Ginnivan, Lipinski, Hill, Frampton, Mitchell, Markov. There are a few others alongside Henry still on AFL lists.

I know you wouldn't want me to include the F/S selections but it's important to remember a couple of things.

1. No other club recruiter rated Josh enough to make a bid before the pick 57 Hine selected him with. While it would seem crazy now to think Hine could have ever overlooked him at that time, unlike his brother Nick he wasn't the star junior talent and Hine has bypassed on other F/S prospects. In the end he got it right and all the other recruiters with the 50 odd selections previously got it badly wrong.

2. Sure, we were never going to not match a bid on Nick but do people really think we do that trade for our F1 at the 2020 draft if we didn't know what was coming (same as the 2nd Beams trade and Quaynor)? No Nick, no trade and Hine has pick 2 in the 2021 draft. He never missed on a top 5 selection.

At the end of the day 18 of the Premiership 23 in 23 were added to the Collingwood list after we took De Goey (19 if you include him) in the 2014 AFL draft.

 

[manicpie]

Fair enough. To be honest, I think the same about Shaz.

I reckon shaz had the most underwhelming highlights reel I've seen. I still can't see what all the fuss was about

 

[TradeDraft]

I reckon shaz had the most underwhelming highlights reel I've seen. I still can't see what all the fuss was about

I thought he had some good games at AFL Level but could not stay fit/healthy

 

[domus]

I thought he had some good games at AFL Level but could not stay fit/healthy

A good ordinary player at best. Too small for a key defender and too slow for a back flank.

 

[regpies]

I am glad Leppa stayed.

Leppa and Fly are a good combo - both are driven to win.

Hine had a plumb job for a long time. If we split his tenure in half.

Was his first half or second half of his tenure better?

We won a flag in each of those eras as well as many finals and prelims. I think it was only Geelong who made more prelims than us during his time.

Last couple years have had more misses than hits. Overall he’s done a great job.

 

[regpies]

I reckon shaz had the most underwhelming highlights reel I've seen. I still can't see what all the fuss was about

He never really had a chance with a couple knees before he was played out of position as a tall defender. He was known as an elite kick, seemed too scared at AFL level to use that and take on dangerous kicks through the middle.

He did an alright job, took some good interceptions marks but Shaz and Langdon were too similar to play in the same team all the time.

 

[loki04]

Bartel, Enright, Taylor etc. His list goes on and on while ours stops after Jordan De Goey.

Hines hits some are borderline but scrape in.
*Hine took over towards end of 04.

2004: T.Cloke (fs), H.O'Brien(r).*
2005: Thomas, Pendles, Toovey(r), .
2006: Reid, Brown, Dawes, Goldsack(r).
2007: Wellingham (r)
2008: Sidebottom, Beams.
2009: Sinclair (Retired 62 games), Thomas.
2010: Fasolo, Blair(r), Keeffe(r).
2011: J.Witts (NSW Schol), M.Williams (r).
2012: B.Grundy
2013: T.Langdon.
2014: Degoey, Moore (fs), Maynard, M.Cox (r)
2015: T.Phillips.
2016: J.Daicos.
2017: J.Stephenson (Imo Debatable a hit), N.Murphy, B.Mihocek (r).
2018: Quaynor.
2019: Nil Main draft. MSD J.Noble.
2020: Henry, Macrea, Mcinness, Poulter, McCreery, J.Ginnivan (r) (All still in system but could change). TBD.
2021: N.Daicos, Harrison, C.Dean (r) Johnson (MSD). TBD.
2022: Allan, Ryan, Richards, Markov (r). TBD.
2023: Demattia, Jiath. Markov (SSP). TBD.
2024: Cochran, West, Hayes. TBD.

Last 4 years yet to play out really. 2004 - 2008 purple period and peak Hine.

 

[sr36]

I reckon shaz had the most underwhelming highlights reel I've seen. I still can't see what all the fuss was about

I thought from all the hype that we had another James Clement - and then I saw him play - I was really shocked.

 

[sr36]

Hines hits some are borderline but scrape in.
*Hine took over towards end of 04.

2004: T.Cloke (fs), H.O'Brien(r).*
2005: Thomas, Pendles, Toovey(r), .
2006: Reid, Brown, Dawes, Goldsack(r).
2007: Wellingham (r)
2008: Sidebottom, Beams.
2009: Sinclair (Retired 62 games), Thomas.
2010: Fasolo, Blair(r), Keeffe(r).
2011: J.Witts (NSW Schol), M.Williams (r).
2012: B.Grundy
2013: T.Langdon.
2014: Degoey, Moore (fs), Maynard, M.Cox (r)
2015: T.Phillips.
2016: J.Daicos.
2017: J.Stephenson (Imo Debatable a hit), N.Murphy, B.Mihocek (r).
2018: Quaynor.
2019: Nil Main draft. MSD J.Noble.
2020: Henry, Macrea, Mcinness, Poulter, McCreery, J.Ginnivan (r) (All still in system but could change). TBD.
2021: N.Daicos, Harrison, C.Dean (r) Johnson (MSD). TBD.
2022: Allan, Ryan, Richards, Markov (r). TBD.
2023: Demattia, Jiath. Markov (SSP). TBD.
2024: Cochran, West, Hayes. TBD.

Last 4 years yet to play out really. 2004 - 2008 purple period and peak Hine.

That's the draft side of it, some pretty big hits in terms of recruiting from other clubs also.

You'd have to think that Cameron and Crisp were recruiting department hits. Probably Hill. Some of the others we'll never really know where the impetus to chase them and the success in getting them came from.

 

[sr36]

Stephenson being a Bust was not Hine's Fault. He Picked him and had Amazing Season and a Half then he F**ked it all up

I would not count Freeman and Scharanberg as they where mostly Injured

He barley had Top 20 Picks since 2014 so had not much Practise

For all the talk of him being better at late picks - he actually smashed his top 5 picks out of the park, but only had a few opportunities - Thomas, Pendles and Degoey.

In many ways when it comes to recruiters - the real test would be known by the club, but not us chumps - how'd they rate the whole cohort, including blokes we didn't have access to. A lot of luck in terms of who falls to your pick. He said at the time he would have gone Dusty at pick 1 over Scully - just about hte only bloke in footy who would have.

 

[regpies]

Stephenson being a Bust was not Hine's Fault. He Picked him and had Amazing Season and a Half then he F**ked it all up

I would not count Freeman and Scharanberg as they where mostly Injured

He barley had Top 20 Picks since 2014 so had not much Practise

Part of recruiting is knowing and factoring in personality. That’s a fail on the Stevo pick. He was great 2018 because of our faster ball movement and playing him out of the goalsquare.

2019 onwards with Buckley was slow short kicking which ruined space in the forward line or anything out the back on a turnover. So he was moved up the ground and became completely useless and scared of contact.

Naughton was spoken about as someone we would pick. So that’s a miss taking Stevo over Naughton.

 

[OEP MKII]

I have to admit I haven't been the biggest fan of Hine's recruiting the last few years, but I can't deny his body of work overall, which has been first class. Did we need a change, in my opinion we did much like when Eddie left the club (and both left the club in a better state than when they first took their roles). It's a breath of fresh air and a chance for new and differing opinions.
I will always view Hine as a Collingwood great who helped turn our great club into one that gives me hope and joy every season, and I wish him all the best for his future.

 

[Go Woods]

I thought from all the hype that we had another James Clement - and then I saw him play - I was really shocked.

Terrible selection unfortunately, to have two top 10 picks that year that produced Patrick Cripps after our picks was very unfortunate.

 

[Jelly Bean]

Hines hits some are borderline but scrape in.
*Hine took over towards end of 04.

2004: T.Cloke (fs), H.O'Brien(r).*
2005: Thomas, Pendles, Toovey(r), .
2006: Reid, Brown, Dawes, Goldsack(r).
2007: Wellingham (r)
2008: Sidebottom, Beams.
2009: Sinclair (Retired 62 games), Thomas.
2010: Fasolo, Blair(r), Keeffe(r).
2011: J.Witts (NSW Schol), M.Williams (r).
2012: B.Grundy
2013: T.Langdon.
2014: Degoey, Moore (fs), Maynard, M.Cox (r)
2015: T.Phillips.
2016: J.Daicos.
2017: J.Stephenson (Imo Debatable a hit), N.Murphy, B.Mihocek (r).
2018: Quaynor.
2019: Nil Main draft. MSD J.Noble.
2020: Henry, Macrea, Mcinness, Poulter, McCreery, J.Ginnivan (r) (All still in system but could change). TBD.
2021: N.Daicos, Harrison, C.Dean (r) Johnson (MSD). TBD.
2022: Allan, Ryan, Richards, Markov (r). TBD.
2023: Demattia, Jiath. Markov (SSP). TBD.
2024: Cochran, West, Hayes. TBD.

Last 4 years yet to play out really. 2004 - 2008 purple period and peak Hine.

Blair played in toe 2010 GF - he wasn't rookied in 2010.

 

[Jelly Bean]

He never really had a chance with a couple knees before he was played out of position as a tall defender. He was known as an elite kick, seemed too scared at AFL level to use that and take on dangerous kicks through the middle.

He did an alright job, took some good interceptions marks but Shaz and Langdon were too similar to play in the same team all the time.

This 100%. He was a great field kick in the juniors, but when he came into the seniors all he did if he ever got a mark (intercept or otherwise) was stop, go back, and kick it 15m sideways. I know that was due in part to Buckley's gameplan.

As an aside, I can't believe where Buckley took us at the end. For the first time in my life I stopped enjoying watching Collingwood due entirely to our style of play. I wish Bucks had have had the offensive flair he had as a player. McRae was an absolute god-send with how he transformed us back into an exciting football unit.

 

[sr36]

Terrible selection unfortunately, to have two top 10 picks that year that produced Patrick Cripps after our picks was very unfortunate.

It wasn't a strong draft. We didn't rate Cripps due to his fitness at the time. They didn't trust unfit guys to develop the necessary dedication and professionalism. The real shame was that Bont didn't get through to us.

2013 AFL National Draft - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

 

[regpies]

This 100%. He was a great field kick in the juniors, but when he came into the seniors all he did if he ever got a mark (intercept or otherwise) was stop, go back, and kick it 15m sideways. I know that was due in part to Buckley's gameplan.

As an aside, I can't believe where Buckley took us at the end. For the first time in my life I stopped enjoying watching Collingwood due entirely to our style of play. I wish Bucks had have had the offensive flair he had as a player. McRae was an absolute god-send with how he transformed us back into an exciting football unit.

We had that flair in 2018, it’s what got us to the GF. Then because West Coast won with a short kick style we copy that for some reason.

 

[sr36]

We had that flair in 2018, it’s what got us to the GF. Then because West Coast won with a short kick style we copy that for some reason.

My take is the coaching group tried really hard to be data driven, but didn't know what they were doing. All the stats talk at the time was about turnovers in the back half - so we eliminated them by being ridiculously safe with the ball from the back half. A similar thing happened a few years before when the stats talk was about teams scoring the same percentage from inside 50 entries. Soultion - maximise forward 50 entries. What we got was a 4 man forward line that couldn't score, Cloke wrestling against 3 and two extra mids to maximise forward 50 entries and Bucks reading out that we won inside 50 stats after every loss.

 

[VinnieB]

Always need to move forward.

You can analyse Hine’s picks over the years, however, structures and roles change and specific skill sets are required.

I’m sure there is a reason why Hine wasn’t offered a new contract. Without knowing exactly how the department had been operating, maybe the club felt there was a younger member of the recruiting team who better identified talent.

 

[jathanas]

This 100%. He was a great field kick in the juniors, but when he came into the seniors all he did if he ever got a mark (intercept or otherwise) was stop, go back, and kick it 15m sideways. I know that was due in part to Buckley's gameplan.

As an aside, I can't believe where Buckley took us at the end. For the first time in my life I stopped enjoying watching Collingwood due entirely to our style of play. I wish Bucks had have had the offensive flair he had as a player. McRae was an absolute god-send with how he transformed us back into an exciting football unit.

The 2018 Buckley side was amazing to watch.

The mojo was then lost. Sad that he'll be remembered more for those awful final years.

 

[sr36]

Blair played in toe 2010 GF - he wasn't rookied in 2010.

He was promoted onto the senior list in 2010.

 

[Gone Critical]

Even without their injuries they were poor talent ID.

I think these thoughts stem from what people thought of the picks originally. We are all recruiters at heart but Hine is actually a real one. For Freeman and Scharenberg no one has any idea whether the talent ID was correct or not. They were both cut down by injury from the get go so no one knows how good they could have been.