Opinion Did Taranto and Hopper make a mistake leaving the Giants for Richmond?

[Footy_Fan2007]

Maybe not leaving the giants but a huge mistake going to Richmond

 

[Grrr]

He really wanted to emphasise the point about consistency and list profiles but conveniently forgot to mention the MOST consistent side of any team during that time LOL.

If Smith joins Geelong, he knows he's likely playing Finals if not next year then the year after.

Richmond were in the wilderness, came out for 4 years then went back to the wilderness.
At least they are consistently not good LOL

Hawks haven't made Finals since 2018, but at least they win a premiership once a decade.

That is consistency. If i was picking models of consistency in the AFL its Geelong and Sydney.
Basically guaranteed to play Finals every year if not one down year in a bunch of Finals playing years.

4 years you say. Made the finals in 2013, 14, 15, missed '16 then finals from 5 of the next 6 years. Add the 3 cups in that and you'd have to be happy with that. Sure no Geelong or Sydney re consistency, but I bet Sydney (and every other team) would trade places with Richmond in a heartbeat.

 

[Grrr]

That Dusty game and the Dreamtime match doing some heavy lifting in that average, because the crowds have certainly thinned out.

True, but hardly empty stadiums. Lose games every week equals loss of attendance, who would have thought.

 

[boncer34]

True, but hardly empty stadiums. Lose games every week equals loss of attendance, who would have thought.

Certainly not the Richmond posters who said the loyal Tiger ARMY would never wane.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

If they were looking for premiership success, probably, but you never know though. It's not unheard of in recent years to see teams hang out in the bottom four then shoot up to the top four the next year(s) out of the blue.

Yeah that's not happening at Richmond.

 

[Nicho50]

Sorry I should have said Geelong won in 9 and 11. When I said 15 years I was more thinking 2010 onwards but anyway.

Outside of Hawks going three peat and Tigers back to back from 2010 most premiers win one and can’t do it again so it’s extremely hard for any player whether it’s Bolton wanting to go to Freo or Smith to Geelong or Tarranto to Richmond whatever it is to pick and choose where they go thinking or expecting success.

On paper Hawks, Freo, Port seem great choices given the list profiles but that doesn’t guarantee success.

I mentioned Geelong and Collingwood being in a similar position to Richmond which is what West Coast went through also once these older premiership players start retiring or getting injured it can become extremely hard to compete with the top end.

Am I saying Geelong and Collingwood will fall to the bottom probably not but it’s just natural when you start losing these players which over the next few years will be Hawkins, Danger, Duncan, Pendles, Sidebottom Howe etc it changes the fabric of the team so people like Schultz or Smith for example may choose Pies or Cats thinking they will play in finals and successful sides but may not be the case when you start losing the experience and fabric of the side.

I think Selwood finishing at Geelong is a great example he was the hart and soul of the club, terrific player and you could not replace what he brought to that side on and off field and Geelong didn’t look the same the following year.

 

[My Tilly]

Little late to the party bro

Falcon, you are a lost soul I'm afraid.

 

[DanA]

Sorry I should have said Geelong won in 9 and 11. When I said 15 years I was more thinking 2010 onwards but anyway.

Outside of Hawks going three peat and Tigers back to back from 2010 most premiers win one and can’t do it again so it’s extremely hard for any player whether it’s Bolton wanting to go to Freo or Smith to Geelong or Tarranto to Richmond whatever it is to pick and choose where they go thinking or expecting success.

On paper Hawks, Freo, Port seem great choices given the list profiles but that doesn’t guarantee success.

I mentioned Geelong and Collingwood being in a similar position to Richmond which is what West Coast went through also once these older premiership players start retiring or getting injured it can become extremely hard to compete with the top end.

Am I saying Geelong and Collingwood will fall to the bottom probably not but it’s just natural when you start losing these players which over the next few years will be Hawkins, Danger, Duncan, Pendles, Sidebottom Howe etc it changes the fabric of the team so people like Schultz or Smith for example may choose Pies or Cats thinking they will play in finals and successful sides but may not be the case when you start losing the experience and fabric of the side.

I think Selwood finishing at Geelong is a great example he was the hart and soul of the club, terrific player and you could not replace what he brought to that side on and off field and Geelong didn’t look the same the following year.

I just think this is a bit too lazy an analysis. Every situation is different and you can't just use rule of thumbs, you need to assess the individual teams problems and profile.

Every team will face issues in a season. But where Richmond's list is/has been at, they will finish 10-18th depending on how well they overcome them. Where Geelong's list is/has been at we will finish 1-10th. In 2023 it all went wrong not just with Selwood, but also Guthrie, Danger and Stanley suffering injuries. In 2024 we've faced similar challenges but adapted better with De Koning and Stewart added to the midfield group. Our team is pretty settled outside the midfield and that midfield group is improving at a rate that with a few additions (like Smith) we should remain competitive moving forward.

 

[parsons nose]

It’s not so much that Taranto and Hopper make a mistake. The mistake was Richmond picking them up. Both belong on Christmas Island with all the other crabs.

 

[Nicho50]

I just think this is a bit too lazy an analysis. Every situation is different and you can't just use rule of thumbs, you need to assess the individual teams problems and profile.

Every team will face issues in a season. But where Richmond's list is/has been at, they will finish 10-18th depending on how well they overcome them. Where Geelong's list is/has been at we will finish 1-10th. In 2023 it all went wrong not just with Selwood, but also Guthrie, Danger and Stanley suffering injuries. In 2024 we've faced similar challenges but adapted better with De Koning and Stewart added to the midfield group. Our team is pretty settled outside the midfield and that midfield group is improving at a rate that with a few additions (like Smith) we should remain competitive moving forward.

You say everything went wrong ? Are you going to use that same logic for Richmond 24 which we have had the worst injury run of any club with games missed. Not saying we would have been in that 10th bracket etc but the facts are decimated by injury and did manage to beat Sydney early on before we lost a large chunk of players to injury.

I think you are forgetting Richmond come off 3 flags out of 4 years and the decline was going to be steep just like the Hawks because you aren't getting top picks and your young kids aren't going to get as much exposure because the team has been successful with not a lot of change to the line ups. That decline is always going to be steeper than a team that finishes 5-14 and can get games into kids and have the ability to bring in players from other clubs.

To your point of having an off year when Selwood went , well over the next couple of years Geelong will lose Stanley, Blicavs, Hawkins, Danger, Rohan, Duncan and maybe some others. That is a lot of experience to lose and even if they were to recruit a Bayley Smith their list could be a long way off the quality that Port or Hawks for example may have in that time with losing very little in the way of players to retirements.

 

[Footy Smarts]

You say everything went wrong ? Are you going to use that same logic for Richmond 24 which we have had the worst injury run of any club with games missed.

Geelong had a horrible injury run and went 10-12-1 with a percentage of 112. They only missed the 8 due to dropping close games.

Richmond had a horrible injury run and became one of the worst teams in league history going 2-20 and percentage of 63.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Falcon, you are a lost soul I'm afraid.

Yeah nah you’re really late. Your mates have gotten tired with that Schtick

 

[Nicho50]

Geelong had a horrible injury run and went 10-12-1 with a percentage of 112. They only missed the 8 due to dropping close games.

Richmond had a horrible injury run and became one of the worst teams in league history going 2-20 and percentage of 63.

You going to take into account the players the Tigers had retire and move on from the flag teams compared to Geelong which was virtually the same squad minus Selwood?

No doubt Geelong had a fair superior list so you would expect they could cope with injuries far better.

 

[gbatman]

I always felt at the time that their recruitment was about having them there when they were rebuilding. So they remained competitive and had some quality senior players so they weren't playing all kids and getting flogged each week. Never felt like it was about building a second premiership campaign. Smart when you think about it. Doubt it was ever in their discussions when they were being courted.

 

[Footy Smarts]

You going to take into account the players the Tigers had retire and move on from the flag teams compared to Geelong which was virtually the same squad minus Selwood?

No doubt Geelong had a fair superior list so you would expect they could cope with injuries far better.

Geelong has 10 players from the 2020 GF playing this week compared to Richmond's 12. The tigers have turned over less players than Geelong.

Richmond relied too much on early draftees and then ignored youth development when they were competing for flags. Once the guns finished up there was no quality to come in and it all fell apart even though half the team is still premiership players.

Geelong was always developing talent from later in the draft so despite Ablett, Selwood, Hawkins, Taylor, Guthrie, etc not being there we're still looking to finish top 4 and have a crack this year after winning the flag in 2022. It's much more difficult but much more rewarding than just being gifted gun players for being shit.

 

[KissKiss]

I always felt at the time that their recruitment was about having them there when they were rebuilding. So they remained competitive and had some quality senior players so they weren't playing all kids and getting flogged each week. Never felt like it was about building a second premiership campaign. Smart when you think about it. Doubt it was ever in their discussions when they were being courted.

Didnt it just delay the rebuild by a few more years? Instead of having the first years with the actual premiership stars, they are coming in from now

 

[JackFlash]

Hopper and Taranto didn't think things through well enough and were certainly sold a "pup"...They were both diddled.

 

[gbatman]

Didnt it just delay the rebuild by a few more years? Instead of having the first years with the actual premiership stars, they are coming in from now

I don't think it did. I think they will be thinking that it will assist their rebuild. Probably thinking along the lines of Geelong who people have said they are about to go into a rebuild but never really crash and never say no to trading in mature players. I think they have been rebuilding for a while, it's just that the effects aren't really obvious. Tiger would like to think they are already a number of years into their rebuild.

 

[DanA]

You say everything went wrong ? Are you going to use that same logic for Richmond 24 which we have had the worst injury run of any club with games missed. Not saying we would have been in that 10th bracket etc but the facts are decimated by injury and did manage to beat Sydney early on before we lost a large chunk of players to injury.

I think you are forgetting Richmond come off 3 flags out of 4 years and the decline was going to be steep just like the Hawks because you aren't getting top picks and your young kids aren't going to get as much exposure because the team has been successful with not a lot of change to the line ups. That decline is always going to be steeper than a team that finishes 5-14 and can get games into kids and have the ability to bring in players from other clubs.

To your point of having an off year when Selwood went , well over the next couple of years Geelong will lose Stanley, Blicavs, Hawkins, Danger, Rohan, Duncan and maybe some others. That is a lot of experience to lose and even if they were to recruit a Bayley Smith their list could be a long way off the quality that Port or Hawks for example may have in that time with losing very little in the way of players to retirements.

Sorry, just to clarify, I was saying Richmond was a 10th to 18th team in 2024 and faced a lot of adversity they weren’t able to overcome that meant they finish bottom of their likely finish range.

My point was that it was more than Selwood. And yes, all those players will leave as well but we’ve just this season alone we’ve gotten it done with all of them missing substantial time (except Blicavs and Duncan). For the most part we’ve got succession plans in place. I still expect us to be capable of finishing top 4 if things go right the next couple of seasons.

 

[Briar Gold]

It’s not so much that Taranto and Hopper make a mistake. The mistake was Richmond picking them up. Both belong on Christmas Island with all the other crabs.

View attachment 2088459

What does it mean to be a crab? I have a sense of it but would genuinely appreciate a definition

 

[Cleansweep17]

Geelong has 10 players from the 2020 GF playing this week compared to Richmond's 12. The tigers have turned over less players than Geelong.

Richmond relied too much on early draftees and then ignored youth development when they were competing for flags. Once the guns finished up there was no quality to come in and it all fell apart even though half the team is still premiership players.

Geelong was always developing talent from later in the draft so despite Ablett, Selwood, Hawkins, Taylor, Guthrie, etc not being there we're still looking to finish top 4 and have a crack this year after winning the flag in 2022. It's much more difficult but much more rewarding than just being gifted gun players for being shit.

Grimes
Dusty
Pickett
Baker
Bolton
Graham
Rioli (maybe)
Macintosh (maybe)

All going this year. We’ve also turned over our coach. Did you want to try the turned over less players thing again?

And this is only from the 2020 flag not 2017.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Grimes
Dusty
Pickett
Baker
Bolton
Graham
Rioli (maybe)
Macintosh (maybe)

All going this year. We’ve also turned over our coach. Did you want to try the turned over less players thing again?

And this is only from the 2020 flag not 2017.

You don't understand the difference between present and past tense do you.

Richmond have 12 players from the 2020 GF named for this weekend. Geelong have 10.

 

[Cleansweep17]

You don't understand the difference between present and past tense do you.

Richmond have 12 players from the 2020 GF named for this weekend. Geelong have 10.

And what about 2017?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Grimes
Dusty
Pickett
Baker
Bolton
Graham
Rioli (maybe)
Macintosh (maybe)

All going this year. We’ve also turned over our coach. Did you want to try the turned over less players thing again?

And this is only from the 2020 flag not 2017.

And you only managed 2 wins this year. Next year is going to be special.

 

[Cleansweep17]

And you only managed 2 wins this year. Next year is going to be special.

100% we’ll most likely get the rising star. Gotta get the picks in before Tassie comes. Clock is ticking but you go ahead and keep trying to compete