Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry CANCELLED!

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[Wallace52]

I think she could have done it in ten minutes.

A childhood in Papua New Guinea tends to make one resourceful. IMO

 

[stormbird]

I think she could have done it in ten minutes.

Apparently that's what the Strike Force thinks too. But I think it's too tight a timeframe: talking to AMS for a minute or two, running back up the hill to the house, getting the car keys (unless she already had them and had already hidden William's body in the car), driving, hiding William, driving, parking, appearing around the back of the house in time to yell across the No.51 backyard to ask FF whether to call the police, then dialing at 10:56.

 

[31550]

Looks to me that Craddock is throwing the police theory under a bus in his opening statement.

No mention of photographs or any forensic photo experts on the witness list?

 

[31550]

From the Sydney Morning Herald link:

"A truck driver who said he saw the foster mother driving the foster grandmother’s Mazda along the road where police suspect Tyrrell’s body was dumped the morning of his disappearance will give evidence.

The court will also hear from Professor Jon Olley and Senior Constable Jost Preis, who will discuss the search efforts; Dr Jennifer Menzies, who will provide evidence on the breakdown of human bones in bushland; and experts on the use of cadaver dogs deployed in the search.

A video of the foster mother’s evidence to the NSW Crime Commission about hitting a different foster child with a wooden spoon will also be presented.

A 2022 police interview recording with another child in the home will also be played in closed court, along with a video of the child showing police where she last saw Tyrrell. ...

Convicted sex offender Frank Abbott, who was investigated over Tyrrell’s disappearance and subsequently charged with unrelated child sex offences, was present via video link from Long Bay prison but will not give evidence.

Tyrrell’s foster and biological parents cannot be identified for legal reasons."

That's pretty specific. Saw the car, identified the car and driver.

 

[Kurve]

Apparently that's what the Strike Force thinks too. But I think it's too tight a timeframe: talking to AMS for a minute or two, running back up the hill to the house, getting the car keys (unless she already had them and had already hidden William's body in the car), driving, hiding William, driving, parking, appearing around the back of the house in time to yell across the No.51 backyard to ask FF whether to call the police, then dialing at 10:56.

Yet she did drive off the property and down Batar Creek Road.

 

[31550]

Craddock told the hearing on Monday that the foster mother had no recollection of the precise time she drove her mother's car fro

But an extraordinary recollection of the strange cars, facial features of their drivers and other minutiae.

 

[truecrimepath]

Daily Mail.

"They found no trace of William Tyrrell'.

Is this hearing today so they can shred the police theory and remove it once and for all. Dan Box thinks it's a ridiculous theory. I share his views..

That's why Craddock is hedging his statement, he does not believe it either.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Apparently that's what the Strike Force thinks too. But I think it's too tight a timeframe: talking to AMS for a minute or two, running back up the hill to the house, getting the car keys (unless she already had them and had already hidden William's body in the car), driving, hiding William, driving, parking, appearing around the back of the house in time to yell across the No.51 backyard to ask FF whether to call the police, then dialing at 10:56.

I recall there was at least one neighbour (can't remember who) who got home from groceries at 10.25 smack in the middle of that and had commented that she was unlucky it wasn't 10.30 because, had it been, she had thought back then she would have seen the abductor at that time being the time it was suggested it happened.

So perhaps SFR have done a critical comparison with witness statements to identify the after 10.33 time as the only window. Interesting

 

[31550]

Either way she's damned. If the drive was squeezed in between talking to AMS and dialling 000 then it must have been done at considerable speed, so not really "looking for William".

If it was done before talking to AMS it makes no sense. Why drive to riding school before checking neighbours. Only if William is already dead.

AMS sent FM down to the bus shelter - how long to walk 300 metres down and back, look for William, hear a scream? Then get keys etc. ?

 

[Awakening]

As someone who follows a lot of true crime, the ease and speed that someone can kill (accidentally or otherwise) and dispose of body and evidence is mind boggling to me (and most normal people).

Most actually dispose of body and evidence immediately because no one wants to be caught with a dead body or bloody knife or whatever.

Most people don’t kill and most people don’t cover up an accidental death.

So reacting coldly and quickly is foreign to most people, but not to those that do these things.

IMO she had plenty of time to dispose of the body and any evidence.

 

[31550]

Surely the truck will be on the tennis Centre CCTV? What time did it pass?

 

[stormbird]

ABC News, 04 Nov 2024

William Tyrrell inquest resumes with new details of police theory about involvement of former foster mother

Any evidence police have gathered against William Tyrrell's foster mother will finally be presented to a coroner as the inquest into the toddler's disappearance resumes this week.

www.abc.net.au

 

[js47]

FM HAD NO RECOLLECTION OF THE TIME SHE DROVE HER MOTHERS CAR.
BAD LUCK SHE DOESN’T HAVE CONTROL OF THE NARRATIVE NOW IF THEY FOUND THE TRUCK DRIVE BECAUSE OF HIS PHONE.
THAT WOULD BE FACT.
HOPE HE HAS A CRYSTAL CKEAR RECOGNITION
WHY DIDNT HE COME FORWARD?
NO EXCUSE THIS CASE IS TOOOOO PUBLIC.

 

[stormbird]

I recall there was at least one neighbour (can't remember who) who got home from groceries at 10.25 smack in the middle of that and had commented that she was unlucky it wasn't 10.30 because, had it been, she had thought back then she would have seen the abductor at that time being the time it was suggested it happened.

So perhaps SFR have done a critical comparison with witness statements to identify the after 10.33 time as the only window. Interesting

Lydene at No.9 got home about 10:30.

 

[31550]

I recall there was at least one neighbour (can't remember who) who got home from groceries at 10.25 smack in the middle of that and had commented that she was unlucky it wasn't 10.30 because, had it been, she had thought back then she would have seen the abductor at that time being the time it was suggested it happened.

So perhaps SFR have done a critical comparison with witness statements to identify the after 10.33 time as the only window. Interesting

It's not between 10.33 and ~10.45. FF confirmed retuned home at 10.35. THEN she talks to AMS while FF goes next door. AMS sends her to the bus stop and back. AMS hears FF calling William. AMS knocks on Paul Savages door around 10:50. So the neighbours are in the street. None of the neighbours saw the drive? Then she's there to call 000 at 10.54, and still in the street when police arrived. How does she make the drive between 10.45 and 10.55 without neighbours seeing?

 

[31550]

Lydene at No.9 got home about 10:30.

And was unpacking groceries so would have noticed traffic.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

p

Either way she's damned. If the drive was squeezed in between talking to AMS and dialling 000 then it must have been done at considerable speed, so not really "looking for William".

If it was done before talking to AMS it makes no sense. Why drive to riding school before checking neighbours. Only if William is already dead.

AMS sent FM down to the bus shelter - how long to walk 300 metres down and back, look for William, hear a scream? Then get keys etc. ?

Rowley turned up when she was down the street so after her call she took off down street to then be met with Rowley who asked if she was the mum then headed back to house at 11.05. Means her trip by foot down the street happened just after 000 call imo.

Box is pushing an agenda. They the media want the story and the only way they get that story is if they push her cause.....so they have. Don't believe a word coming from him.

As for being ridiculous......no. Tight certainly. Improbable possibly but not ridiculous. Too much support for both FPs involvement and cross corroboration for it to be ridiculous.

If there is NO sign of W nor Cadaver then either we have all misread her COG behaviours OR it is an abduction. I prefer it being earlier which means the photos are wrong time

Lydene at No.9 got home about 10:30.

So her comment must have been I must have just missed him because id gone inside to unpack..something like that..I know she has regrets her routine was out a few minutes and missed catching the guy around 10.30 mark

 

[31550]

Daily Mail.

"They found no trace of William Tyrrell'.

Is this hearing today so they can shred the police theory and remove it once and for all. Dan Box thinks it's a ridiculous theory. I share his views..

That's why Craddock is hedging his statement, he does not believe it either.

The main issue with the police theory is the blind assumption that William died accidentally in the first place. No evidence of this. However, it's entirely possible, and more likely in the circumstances that he was killed or at least did not die by accident. Human intervention. Otherwise why cover up?

 

[31550]

p

Rowley turned up when she was down the street so after her call she took off down street to then be met with Rowley who asked if she was the mum then headed back to house at 11.05. Means her trip by foot down the street happened just after 000 call imo.

Box is pushing an agenda. They the media want the story and the only way they get that story is if they push her cause.....so they have. Don't believe a word coming from him.

As for being ridiculous......no. Tight certainly. Improbable possibly but not ridiculous. Too much support for both FPs involvement and cross corroboration for it to be ridiculous.

If there is NO sign of W nor Cadaver then either we have all misread her COG behaviours OR it is an abduction. I prefer it being earlier which means the photos are wrong time

So her comment must have been I must have just missed him because id gone inside to unpack..something like that..I know she has regrets her routine was out a few minutes and missed catching the guy around 10.30 mark

Lydene lives on the corner and would be very familiar with all the people coming and going. Also with young children who would often play outside. If she was outside she would have spotted anything out of the ordinary right away.

 

[Kurve]

The main issue with the police theory is the blind assumption that William died accidentally in the first place. No evidence of this. However, it's entirely possible, and more likely in the circumstances that he was killed or at least did not die by accident. Human intervention. Otherwise why cover up?

Going over the balcony is so obvious but with that proposed scenario, the cops were more likely to get a confession out of her and she's dodged a murder/manslaughter charge.

 

[31550]

Means her trip by foot down the street happened just after 000 call imo.

No that has to be a second trip down the street on foot because AMS directed her to the bus shelter at their initial meeting - 10.40 to 10.45

 

[stormbird]

https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/latest-police-theory-on-william-tyrrell-to-be-probed-at-inquest/news-story/ac979d8793006e331d0edcded394a532

Police have still gathered no forensic evidence explaining how William Tyrrell went missing 10 years ago, the long-running inquest into the toddler’s disappearance was told as it resumed.

Gerard Craddock SC, the Counsel Assisting the Coroner, said a statement from the lead investigator on the case Detective Chief Inspector David Laidlaw had been heavily redacted as it was “in the form of one person’s opinions about what evidence shows”.

From the News.com.au link:

"Mr Craddock provided an overview of what the inquest has heard since it began in 2019, and revealed Strike Force Rosann detectives had not recovered any physical evidence during an extensive search of bushland in Kendall three years ago.

“It’s beyond any argument now that William Tyrrell has not been found,” he said.

“It’s beyond argument that no forensic evidence has been located at 48 Benaroon Drive or anywhere else that provides a clue for the reason for his disappearance.”

Mr Craddock also said it was beyond doubt no eye witness has provided any evidence about how William left the boundaries of the Benaroon Drive home, and William “has not been seen by any identifiable person since”. ...

Mr Craddock told the inquest on Monday there were two other people – the Crabbes – on Benaroon Dr who also told police of hearing a car on the street that morning.

It was determined the car was heard by the Crabbes about 10.08am to 10.13am, which was around the time William was meant to have disappeared.

“People in Benaroon Drive sometimes hear cars entering their territory by reason of their infrequency,” Mr Craddock said.

“And although some have said no cars were heard on the morning of 12 September … Mrs Crabbe has given compelling evidence there was at least one car heard on Benaroon Drive.”

 

[Kurve]

“And although some have said no cars were heard on the morning of 12 September … Mrs Crabbe has given compelling evidence there was at least one car heard on Benaroon Drive.”

Could it have been the FGM car?

 

[Kurve]

Could have been, given the bonnet was warm more likely than not. I have to say the whole police theory never made sense.

The police should be castigated for this whole sorry affair. I bet you they have not even looked at the photos properly.

If there was only one car heard around the time William disappeared, it had to be her in the FGMs car because we know she went out in it.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

Could have been, given the bonnet was warm more likely than not. I have to say the whole police theory never made sense.

The police should be castigated for this whole sorry affair. I bet you they have not even looked at the photos properly.

There was a coronial order made way back in Sep 2019 that the photos be examined by a forensic expert.

Do you really think that NSWPF would not follow a coronial order?

Coroner orders urgent forensic examination of last known photograph of William Tyrrell​

An IT expert has been ordered to undertake an urgent forensic examination of the last known photograph of William Tyrrell over doubts as to when the picture - a vital clue - was actually taken.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/coroner-orders-urgent-forensic-examination-of-last-known-photograph-of-william-tyrrell/news-story/fa7d1448b9505cc2c62e2cd1554bb443?amp