Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry CANCELLED!

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[js47]

Gymjam about the shoe I will listen to the FF walk through again.

 

[Poppy Penny]

Listen to what?
He didn't know who it was to know that he didn't want them to listen 'to that'

Good point

 

[Wallace52]

Listen to what?
He didn't know who it was to know that he didn't want them to listen 'to that'

Maybe it was a girlfriend or a female work colleague that he had a crush on.

 

[Wallace52]

I’ve been of the understanding that he set up for his meeting about 9.15am and it started at 9.30am, running (I thought) for 1/2 hour. … but happy to be corrected as I think the times are critical, quite likely down to the minute in some case.

So if FF meeting finished at 9.30 am, what did he do between 9.30 > 10.18 am ( guessing 10.18 is the pharmacy receipt time ) and guessing he had a 5 min wait for his script to be dispensed, a few minutes to cross the street ……. There’s 40 mins ‘free time’.

Maybe he mucked around on Facebook for a bit?

 

[shorsky]

WHAT! I find out so much important information in this site. Surely these people who are so wealthy portray themselves as intellectuals had to THINK about William’s falling over. I would have been on that phone to make sure bios, Gov, SA and any one in hearing distance was aware and surely his day care centre must have spoken to them about it. WHY wasn’t he seen by the appropriate people?
What I was confused about was the MFC wondering if he had not been there William may not have been able to get up after falling off the stool?

That really confused or even perhaps I should say, concerned me. Very strange thing to say imo.

Kids for the most part are extraordinarily resilient. I can recall many times holding my breath on hearing a Crack ah they stood up under a table, or fell over something … while they shook themselves off & carried on.

I wondered what made FF think the child was not capable of getting up ?

And what follow up was there to this concern ? Was he taken to paediatrician for a though check up ?

 

[shorsky]

That's what I'm thinking.

Maybe the work meeting was at Lake Cathie.

He forgets his script and messages the FM that he's coming home to get it. Is the message deleted?

She waits for him and passes the script through the window, no doors opened or closed.

He's in a hurry and probably pissed he had to go back out.

Then goes to Lakewood Khodarys.

Does it fit in the timeline?

FF meeting was online. The reason given for his drive at morning was because there was no suitable reception at Benaroon Drive.

It was said that he also needed to fill his prescription ( perhaps in the rush of leaving Sydney he forgot his meds, and some do have to be taken at pretty much the same time each day)

People here may know if Lakewood was the closest Pharmacy in 2014, and if it was it would make sense to me, to go there, have his meeting & fill his script.

 

[shorsky]

Any normal person would drive past the tennis club (IMO).

Hahaha now you throw in ‘normal’

 

[DropBearess]

One thing interests me about the FGM walk-through which may have been unnoticed.

Before she waffles on about the vague sleeping arrangements the previous night, she introduces her own room. "This is my room and I slept here alone" Why would anyone deem it necessary to say that? There are also personal items visible on both sides of her bed.

On SM-A356E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[js47]

Gymjam about the shoe I will listen to the FF walk through again.

Yes the FF SAID IN THE WALK THROUGH…’THERE IS A TRAIL UP TO THE CEMETERY AND I WENT UP THERE TO SEE IF HE DROPPED SOMETHING A SHOE ACHOO!’
He dropped the tissue. And I have to applaud him never once did he say um er r etc. but then again he was talking about how proficient he was at His bush abilities

 

[shorsky]

I know it is good to run through different scenarios, but all this what if William did this or that, Or what if FM lost her temper. It has all been discussed before.... No evidence. No proof. Not in statements. As far as we have been told everyone was happy that morning. Does not add to solving what happened.

How do you know there was a fight over toys etc. This is a narrative and is alleged by fosters.

With 10 years of discussions it’s a fair bet there’s going to be repeats. However imo they are good refreshers; also not everyone is long-term and it’s important to have fresh perspectives.

Above as BBM, pretty much everything is a narrative by the fosters. After all, there was no one else there so they pretty much command the floor !

The challenge for Investigators is to unravel all the versions provided, and to try to make some sense of important detail that may match to other important detail.

We have no idea of what police may have as I doubt they’re about to make ‘evidence’ public.

At the same time, I certainly hope all the very public innuendo re FM involvement is not just ‘scare tactics’ as that is not fair & I could see a huge law suit looming.

 

[js47]

FF meeting was online. The reason given for his drive at morning was because there was no suitable reception at Benaroon Drive.

It was said that he also needed to fill his prescription ( perhaps in the rush of leaving Sydney he forgot his meds, and some do have to be taken at pretty much the same time each day)

People here may know if Lakewood was the closest Pharmacy in 2014, and if it was it would make sense to me, to go there, have his meeting & fill his script.

Yes Lakewood is the closest Lake Cathie is a long drive there would not have been time he would have to go into Laurieton and up through Bonny Hills or up the highway and in through the ghost road just to far.

 

[shorsky]

If it was the FM then what accounts for the momentary stopping they heard? If she placed a dead W in the car what caused hesitation? Was it pausing at the driveway exit perhaps?

If Crabbes know the sound of vehicles coming and going can they also distinguish between residents coming and going from driveway and a car on the street?

I think it possible a vehicle reversed out of FGM’s driveway. Perhaps it rolled down the driveway so FGM didn’t hear a vehicle start.

If you think what that would entail, reverse down, maybe start car at bottom of driveway, then swing out / back on the road, change gear, and go forward, very quickly

 

[shorsky]

Were there texts deleted from the FMs phone on the day?
Would they be able to tell if the landline called FF that morning?

Yes to both

 

[passball]

Gymjam about the shoe I will listen to the FF walk through again.

It's in there.
He also says that he discovered the trail to the cemetery as if he didn't know about it but the others were waiting for him to come home to go on a WALK to the cemetery to place the cards/drawings the kid

 

[shorsky]

In that case it would be quite telling for the FF to use two different routes for the two trips. Excuse could be the roadworks? But that doesn't make a lot of sense.
Why leave this out of his narrative?

Uummm .. it’s been said by a couple of people that FF meeting finished at 9.30 am - do we know if that is fact ?

Because if so it leaves a big gap of time, enough possibly to meet someone & still pick up a script at 10.18 am, and still leave the obligatory ‘ home in 5 ‘ text.

 

[shorsky]

Have we ruled out the FM could not have taken two drives after 9.37? And does anybody know if the FGM Mazda 3 had GPS?

Personally I believe there was one drive, and it could have started as early as 9.50am.

I think it’s also possible that it may not have ended until close to 10.30am.

Does anyone know what time AMS arrived home from taking her youngest to playschool or whatever it was ?

 

[shorsky]

The FF left @ 08:55 ( just found this in my notes , stated by Detective Laura Beacroft @ the inquest ) .

Thanks for all this valuable info, however I think Detective Beacroft may be a little out on her time.

FF was clocked at 8.40 am Tennis Court CCTV time. It was originally said that clock was 9 mins slow, meaning it was actually 8.49 am when he went past the Tennis Courts.

Now at this latest tranche of the Inquest, we suddenly hear it said the clock was 14 mins slow ! On that basis it it becomes that he passed the Tennis Courts at 8.54 am.

I’m really intrigued as to the change in the clock times. There is a signed statement from Mr Donohue where he amended his times on the basis of Police advice that the clock was 9 minutes slow.

IMO, time is quite critical in this case, so discrepancies like this appear sloppy, unless clearly explained. e.g. did the battery get slower over time until it became 14 mins slow ? - that doesn’t mean it was 14 mins slow when the activities in question were occurring.

 

[shorsky]

FM said she saw the cars @07:30. Anne Maree walked some of her kids to the bus stop @ 08:10, saw no cars ( I suggest cars had left ) She drove another child to to pre-school @ 08:40. She reversed out & saw no cars at that time either.

Detective Beacroft made a point to say that Anne Maree was not outside to see the cars before 08:10.

I'm not undermining anyone, just point out the fact she had not been outside to see the alleged cars that the FM said she saw @ 07:30, hence the cars cannot 100% be ruled out as not being there!

If you think that's defending the FM than that's your assumption.

Was it stated at what stage that morning FM saw the cars - I heard something like she woke up & pulled back the curtains…. was she looking at a bird or something, and then she saw these 2 cars ?

 

[shorsky]

Opportunistic means that.
Sees an opportunity and acts on it. Not planned or seeked out.
Example turning onto Elendale st, sees child at end of slope so drives further up instead of turning into Elendale, asks William if he’s seen a puppy, William comes closer, put in car, car drives away.

Foster Parents were adamant that William wouldn’t wander away, always stayed close etc. . But for him to be abducted he had to wander (so their statement flies in the face of their belief imo )
He had to leave the house confines and go close to the road / boundary of the property.
(And let’s discount the fact that Police say there was no scent of him outside the boundary - for whatever reason, dogs may not have had a good enough scent to track etc. )

So - if William had been in a big lot of trouble and was locked outside, do we think he maybe got fed-up, got very brave, and decided to go find daddy.

 

[shorsky]

Mazda 3’s don’t have GPS. Oh rats, I am sort of wrong.



Two phone calls, one drive.

The FD would have noticed her driving if she went out twice IMO.

The fact that FD didn’t notice FM driving at all is very fortunate for the FM but two drives and she would have been pushing her luck.

I drive a 2014 Mazda 3 and it has factory fitted GPS

 

[InTheBleachers]

It was a relative who was there on Thursday. FGM was recovering from an illness. Others were helping to take care of her. I do not have a link as proof of who was there. I will have to go back through notes to see how I know that, when I have more time I will do that.

I found my reference. It was in Geoff Owen's testimony from the inquest. He said he rang the FGM's house on the Thursday and again on the Friday. When he rang on Thursday he said he spoke to FGM's daughter. Not FM as she wasn't there yet. Might have been a daughter-in-law?

FGM recovering from an illness was mentioned in an A Current Affair episode from 24th September 2014. This episode. I can't find the link to the episode on their website as it is so old. Maybe someone else can find it.

 

[gymjam]

Thats a little incorrect, because I have the development applications for the original dwelling construction and they are dated 1990.

I think you will find that I had referred to the initial build of the 48 Benaroon property which WAS 1980s.

The docs you posted have the date 1990 so there may have been a bit of extra work design proposed and applications lodged after the prepared and authorized plan doc attached to FM march 2015 statement that was used by for her to mark places and articles of interest on that attached plan.

I didnt appreciate your writing the tone of your reply the way you did which included the word bullxxxx. A bit of courtesy would have been appreciated thankyou.

I did appreciate seeing the documents you attached. Thankyou.

 

[gymjam]

I found my reference. It was in Geoff Owen's testimony from the inquest. He said he rang the FGM's house on the Thursday and again on the Friday. When he rang on Thursday he said he spoke to FGM's daughter. Not FM as she wasn't there yet. Might have been a daughter-in-law?

FGM recovering from an illness was mentioned in an A Current Affair episode from 24th September 2014. This episode. I can't find the link to the episode on their website as it is so old. Maybe someone else can find it.

View attachment 2168894

I believe he referred to 'the other daughter' which would be FM sister. Apparently it came out she had been at Kendall ex Sydney during that leadup week.

I always considered she may have paid a visit to Kendall to put her name on some of her deceased father's artefacts after hearing her sister was going to Kendall to help their mother sort through household things ready for the family divide up after the issuing of property sale contracts which were due to be signed the week commencing the 8 Sept according to what FM stated in March 2015.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I drive a 2014 Mazda 3 and it has factory fitted GPS

That's interesting. Thank you..I had thought the thread covered that in part 1 and concluded no for some reason.

If FGM had car they should have been able to determine where it went. GPS location.

 

[31550]

That's interesting. Thank you..I had thought the thread covered that in part 1 and concluded no for some reason.

If FGM had car they should have been able to determine where it went. GPS location.

I believe FGM car was older than 2014 - possibly 2009?
Even if GPS was available it was an optional extra, certainly not fitted to all models.
And even if it was, the type of GPS fitted to consumer vehicles typically kept very limited geolocation history if any.

So, no I don't reckon they could see where the car had been driven from its GPS. Not in 2014, and certainly not in 2021.