Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry CANCELLED!

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[31550]

Maybe he did forget his script and drove back for it.

Got a bit twitchy for his meds maybe and forgot it, as Kurve alluded to.

I have wondered about the meds and script.
He needs the script on him to get the meds (usually).
If he didn't have the script then there would have been phone calls made at the chemist to confirm his script, and these would be part of his record and alibi. So he had the script. And no e-scripts in 2014 AFAIK.
I find it unusual that he would have his script on him, and no meds.
Understand in the hurry to leave he (or FM) may have forgotten to pack his meds. But remembered to take his script.
My inference is that he had already run out completely of his meds, possibly before the Thursday. Thats why he was "really keen" to get his script filled.
This might have influenced his behaviour on the trip up and that morning?

(Except that 'everyone was happy', of course.)

 

[gymjam]

Wait what? He mumbled on over 8 am? That is the same crap the FGM went on about. Do you have the detail?

Have sent message to our mod tried to send one to you too.

 

[31550]

Uummm .. it’s been said by a couple of people that FF meeting finished at 9.30 am - do we know if that is fact ?

Because if so it leaves a big gap of time, enough possibly to meet someone & still pick up a script at 10.18 am, and still leave the obligatory ‘ home in 5 ‘ text.

I believe the meeting ended closer to 9:56.
gymjam posted details a little while back, but it's also in the FF transcript.
He set the meeting up to commence at 9:30 (with the other party) , but started it early at 9:17 to make sure the tech was working.
According to his transcript the call lasted 39 minutes which takes us to 9:56.
Then he's got to go into the pharmacy and wait for his script to be filled.
If the EFT transaction is 10:18 that only gives 24 minutes to do stuff.

 

[31550]

Personally I believe there was one drive, and it could have started as early as 9.50am.

I think it’s also possible that it may not have ended until close to 10.30am.

Does anyone know what time AMS arrived home from taking her youngest to playschool or whatever it was ?

Much earlier than the two times above, but would have been inside her house probably most of the time until the FM went to see her, at which time I think it was reported she was in the carport drinking a coke or having a smoke.

 

[31550]

Hahaha now you throw in ‘normal’

I like to be accurate and precise.

Before she waffles on about the vague sleeping arrangements the previous night, she introduces her own room. "This is my room and I slept here alone" Why would anyone deem it necessary to say that? There are also personal items visible on both sides of her bed.

Personal items? Slept alone?
So 'everyone WAS happy'!

 

[LRitz]

Someone should tell the fosters that, considering they’re convicted of assault and stalking and intimidation of a little girl in their care.

Domestic violence comes in so many forms: Coercive control, physical abuse, verbal abuse, psychological abuse, sexual abuse, intimidation, destruction of property, theft of property, arson, hurting the persons animals/pets. And then there is neglect and withholding things like washing of the person’s clothes and not providing a child with the basic essentials such as underwear.

Obviously the fosters have only been convicted of assault and stalk/intimidate, not the whole list above.

And both of the fosters had Blue Cards.
The system is well and truly broken.

If we are going to have a register for CSA offenders we may as well look at the process for Blue Cards too.

Not providing a child with basic essentials; this could include not providing food.

William should have been under better protection from FACS. With recent significant bruise to his face, that had to be reported to FACS, and losing weight (at least suspected by bio mother , and mother's intuition should not be ignored), and fosters saying they were not coping.....but nothing done. And here we are 10 years later.
Photo comparison. i do not know date of photo below. i think IMO, Willian looks nearly like a different child, less well, thinner, and not happy in the roar photo .

 

[LRitz]

I’ve seen the cat boarding receipt from the eftpos machine.

I’ve seen the daycare sign out sheet and one of the rooms has the FF signature on it. He was there for pickup after the cat drop off.

iirc foster dad picked up the sister and foster mum picked up William.

She actually forgot to sign him out on the sign out sheet on the 11th and had to sign for him after he was already…. Well, you know….when they returned to Sydney.

Thanks. So the FF was seen at the day care. This is confirmed?

The receipt and signature are just paper. i have done childcare pick ups and usually a bit chaotic. Would the staff remember. Just want to check. Assume nothing.

 

[gymjam]

Uummm .. it’s been said by a couple of people that FF meeting finished at 9.30 am - do we know if that is fact ?

Because if so it leaves a big gap of time, enough possibly to meet someone & still pick up a script at 10.18 am, and still leave the obligatory ‘ home in 5 ‘ text.

All the details I posted are FACT. Cant post copy of original transcript due to restrictions.

 

[31550]

Not providing a child with basic essentials; this could include not providing food.

William should have been under better protection from FACS. With recent significant bruise to his face, that had to be reported to FACS, and losing weight (at least suspected by bio mother , and mother's intuition should not be ignored), and fosters saying they were not coping.....but nothing done. And here we are 10 years later.
Photo comparison. i do not know date of photo below. i think IMO, Willian looks nearly like a different child, less well, thinner, and not happy in the roar photoView attachment 2168930 .

Looking at those photos rips my heart out. Can only imagine what his real parents went through and are going through every day. Should be such a special and wonderful time for little boys that age. Brings back really strong memories for me. Poor little kid never had a chance did he? I am still gutted and I never knew or met William or his family. And it's been 10 years. And no answers. Nobody held accountable. Not even a 'sorry'. FMD.

 

[gymjam]

Uummm .. it’s been said by a couple of people that FF meeting finished at 9.30 am - do we know if that is fact ?

Because if so it leaves a big gap of time, enough possibly to meet someone & still pick up a script at 10.18 am, and still leave the obligatory ‘ home in 5 ‘ text.

He was captured by independant cctv source not known but possibly Woolworths or the shopping complex he was parked there until he departed Lakewood. Khodary Pharmacy was in view of where he had parked in Woolies carpark so he did not need to drive elsewhere in Lakewood. In statement. The interviewing detectives clarified where he had parked with him on 14th. It was noted during this ERISP interview at 48 that his vehicle was not present at 48. FF stated he didnt know where his wife was at the time and he assumed she had taken the vehicle.

Details are FACT.

 

[Awakening]

I found my reference. It was in Geoff Owen's testimony from the inquest. He said he rang the FGM's house on the Thursday and again on the Friday. When he rang on Thursday he said he spoke to FGM's daughter. Not FM as she wasn't there yet. Might have been a daughter-in-law?

FGM recovering from an illness was mentioned in an A Current Affair episode from 24th September 2014. This episode. I can't find the link to the episode on their website as it is so old. Maybe someone else can find it.

View attachment 2168894

This is really interesting. Perhaps this daughter stayed the night or was there again first thing Friday morning.

 

[Kurve]

As the transcript of the FF interview can't be posted in here, we need to move on and work on information that is publicly available.

 

[31550]

As the transcript of the FF interview can't be posted in here, we need to move on and work on information that is publicly available.

Can we quote sections of what we 'believe' might be in the FF transcript?

 

[31550]

This is really interesting. Perhaps this daughter stayed the night or was there again first thing Friday morning.

All details pertaining to this daughter are very likely subject to a NPO. So it's going to be difficult to determine her involvement if any in this case.

 

[gymjam]

This is really interesting. Perhaps this daughter stayed the night or was there again first thing Friday morning.

And the 2 vehicles PS stated he recalled seeing on the Thursday during the day ... time anyone? ....parked with white vehicle connected to sister's visit? One was a dark grey 4wd described in similar terms to the vehicle FF drove and they had traveled to kendall using on 11th arriving at Kendall around 9pm. The white one may have been FM sisters?

I keep wondering who had attended to the garden under the high balcony as it had fresh mulch covering the ground in walkthru videos. And a pile was next to police scene vans parked in lower driveway on 12th.

Sister worked for Wesley org in aged care connected area just prior to FM AND FF commencing their journey through their fostering process with Wesley Dalmar. Source open view linkedin.

 

[Kurve]

Can we quote sections of what we 'believe' might be in the FF transcript?

They can't be authenticated. We saw what happened through the Claremont murders when 'leaked' material was being passed around.

For years information in the documents was promoted by posters as having insider knowledge that the public wasn't privvy to. While some of the information in the documents was correct there were a couple of major errors, likely deliberately inserted as a trap.

 

[31550]

And the 2 vehicles PS stated he recalled seeing on the Thursday during the day ... time anyone? ....parked with white vehicle connected to sister's visit? One was a dark grey 4wd described in similar terms to the vehicle FF drove and they had traveled to kendall using on 11th arriving at Kendall around 9pm. The white one may have been FM sisters?

I keep wondering who had attended to the garden under the high balcony as it had fresh mulch covering the ground in walkthru videos. And a pile was next to police scene vans parked in lower driveway on 12th.

Sister worked for Wesley org in aged care connected area just prior to FM AND FF commencing their journey through their fostering process with Wesley Dalmar. Source open view linkedin.

Is the sister a short overweight blonde woman?
Does she own or drive a jet black Camry, or a Burgundy BMW or a grey ute? Does she own a ladder?
Rhetorical questions, never mind.

 

[Kurve]

Michelle White took a few pictures of the FGMs house after William disappeared, have we seen all of them and does anybody know if she included pictures that illustrate the big drop at the high end of the balcony?

 

[31550]

It's a bit quiet in here. Haven't seen the 'cavalry' for a while. Do Insight have a regular Tuesday morning meeting, or is it just that we aren't touching any particular nerves right now?

 

[Tommyz]

What's interesting is that the police were listening in when both their home and car were bugged with recording devices for more than a year, day and night 24 hours, and they apparently heard all this so called intimidation and assaults on a child, but did nothing. Wouldn't you think that if a child was seriously being harmed, they would smash down the door and rescue the child. Clearly, they didn't think it was bad enough to do this. There is not one parent out there that hasn't threatened their child if they didn't stop what they were doing. Even saying "if you don't stop that, I will smack your bum" is by legal terms threats and intimidation. Every parent would be jail if this was the case. And these same people are the ones who criticise parents for not doing anything about their child when the child is being disruptive in a public place like a restaurant.

 

[31550]

for more than a year, day and night 24 hours, and they apparently heard all this so called intimidation and assaults on a child, but did nothing.

We don't know that the surveillance was actively monitored 24/7.
We don't know that they didn't report abuse or suspected abuse to FACS.
We don't know whether FACS investigated the situation or not.
But I agree it's a concern that a child was left in this situation for so long, and the whole set of circumstances should be reviewed independently at an appropriate time.

 

[Kurve]

What's interesting is that the police were listening in when both their home and car were bugged with recording devices for more than a year, day and night 24 hours, and they apparently heard all this so called intimidation and assaults on a child, but did nothing. Wouldn't you think that if a child was seriously being harmed, they would smash down the door and rescue the child. Clearly, they didn't think it was bad enough to do this. There is not one parent out there that hasn't threatened their child if they didn't stop what they were doing. Even saying "if you don't stop that, I will smack your bum" is by legal terms threats and intimidation. Every parent would be jail if this was the case. And these same people are the ones who criticise parents for not doing anything about their child when the child is being disruptive in a public place like a restaurant.

They can't SEE what was happening, they only had audio and they did rescue the child. The FD and another child in their care were removed permanently.

The kids weren't removed because "If you don't stop that I'll smack your bum."

 

[Tommyz]

Oh I have kept that question in my head for soooooo! Long.
In his walk through he BRAGS how he knows all the fire trails but it is questionable if he has his bike. He also says he went down a trail (which one) looking in case William lost a shoe . I am wondering if FF took William on his shoulders for a little walk for a little talk about upsetting FGM because of fights over toys (I bet he had one) long day school days long trip early start. Seems possible to me.
Fm accounts for her FD William’s FGM activities. Didn’t FF say when they were challenged over the FD ‘I am sick of this s**t? A Leopard does not change its spots.

As much as I can understand that some people have all sorts of legitimate questions and valid theories, a little bit of common sense also goes a long way. The police have already verified he was where he said he was. It would have been one of the first things they did. If he wasnt where he said he was, he too would have been a primary suspect. And that's not the case.

 

[Tommyz]

We don't know that the surveillance was actively monitored 24/7.
We don't know that they didn't report abuse or suspected abuse to FACS.
We don't know whether FACS investigated the situation or not.
But I agree it's a concern that a child was left in this situation for so long, and the whole set of circumstances should be reviewed independently at an appropriate time.

Actually we do know, it was raised in court and it was reported. It should also be noted that the child who was then removed, didn't want to go, was distressed and crying. That too was recorded.

 

[Kurve]

Actually we do know, it was raised in court and it was reported. It should also be noted that the child who was then removed, didn't want to go, was distressed and crying. That too was recorded.

Are you referring to the child that initially reported being assaulted and afraid to go home to the school?

Why should it be particularly noted that the child was distressed and crying and didn't want to go, presumably with strangers or the police?

I think it can be demonstrated that she wasn't comfortable with the police, she waited until the police left her alone with a support worker to say that the FF had put his hands around her neck.