Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry CANCELLED!

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[maggiethecat]

'He was here 5 minutes, here 5 minutes ago'
I find it strange the way FM and FF both repeat themselves in their speech, and repeat the same phrase.
It's like they are using earbuds and the sound is lagging. So weird.

Or trying to convince themselves that this is the truth?

 

[maggiethecat]

Passball , I can see you are totally passionate about William Tyrrells case and maybe even very excited to talk amongst like minded people but you see I don’t post much and I’ve been sitting back trying to read this forum for the last few days and I’m getting right into what I’m reading and then you start popping up with random thoughts which I’m finding very off putting and maybe because I’m pretty crook with shingles I’m finding it all very confusing to follow your trains of thought.

Maybe you could start writing down some of these thoughts instead of jumping online every time you have one because I’m trying to follow what you’re saying but I feel like I’m looking at one of those confusing crime maps with strings and pins everywhere.

 

[Lady O]

To use a medication for an alternative use other than what is registered for ie the official printed instruction printed on the label or pamphlet available from a pharmacy is illegal!

Medications or treatments when used in any way other than official advice can cause immediate major health issues that at times may include major physical and mental incapacities, organ failure at times permanent and non treatable or curable and at times DEATH!

Edited to add Footnote: https://raisingchildren.net.au/toddlers/sleep/sleep-problems/sleep-medicines

This link includes the following information:

The Therapeutic Goods Administration has not approved melatonin for use by typically developing children. But if your child is aged over 2 years, is autistic or has attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) or low vision or blindness, and also has persistent sleep problems or trouble falling asleep and waking up in the morning, your child’s doctor might prescribe melatonin.

If your child is taking melatonin, they need to be settled and ready for bed before having their nightly dose. This is because melatonin usually works within 30-60 minutes. You shouldn’t give melatonin to your child except under direct medical advice and supervision.

Sedative medicines​

Sedative medicines include Vallergan and Phenergan. Your child should take sedative medicines only under the supervision of your doctor.

These medicines aren’t recommended for children aged under 2 years. They can cause side effects like irritability, hyperactivity, challenging behaviour and daytime drowsiness in some children.

Sedative medicines are very unlikely to help with your child’s sleep problems unless your child uses them in combination with strategies focused on their bedtime routine.

Please do not limit you reading of advice provided in the above link to what I have posted.

Hmm, very interesting.

 

[passball]

Passball , I can see you are totally passionate about William Tyrrells case and maybe even very excited to talk amongst like minded people but you see I don’t post much and I’ve been sitting back trying to read this forum for the last few days and I’m getting right into what I’m reading and then you start popping up with random thoughts which I’m finding very off putting and maybe because I’m pretty crook with shingles I’m finding it all very confusing to follow your trains of thought.

Maybe you could start writing down some of these thoughts instead of jumping online every time you have one because I’m trying to follow what you’re saying but I feel like I’m looking at one of those confusing crime maps with strings and pins everywhere.

Yes, I can even see that myself.
I'm definitely going to tone it down.
I'll still read in here and I will wait to see how everything goes.

 

[Wallace52]

Phenergen was great for fussy kids, to help them sleep. I wonder how it interracted with ADHD meds?

William was not on ADHD meds.

 

[Wallace52]

I presume she gave the Coroner an edited selection of photos, not necessarily every single photo ever taken while she had William.
So, this is hardly evidence of anything in particular.
I wonder if the scrapbook contained any iconic foster Mum and foster son "meet cute" or similar moments? Or was FM always behind the camera?

I’m sure that there would be zero photos of foster mum in there. IMO.

 

[maggiethecat]

Yes, I can even see that myself.
I'm definitely going to tone it down.
I'll still read in here and I will wait to see how everything goes.

I actually enjoy people who think outside the box and are passionate about their beliefs but not sure it’s you or my illness but my head is like this at the moment trying to keep up with you!

My theory , albeit only a theory was that William was put in time out on the high balcony and it all happened pretty quickly from there . I feel Foster grandmothers walk through is very telling in something happened on the outdoor are where William was last photographed to cause FM (mummy monster) to put him in time out . Only a theory but I honestly don’t feel he was removed alive from that property but feelings and theories are never going to solve the case , we need facts .
I hope you are doing ok , I really am not trying to pick on you because you are new , your posting style in quite unique

 

[31550]

I’m sure that there would be zero photos of foster mum in there. IMO.

That's what I was thinking.

 

[Lady O]

William was not on ADHD meds.

FGM apparently asked FM the morning WT went missing if she thought he had ADHD. I can only surmise he was displaying symptoms of "irritability, or challenging behaviour, or hyperactivity" which may have led her to ask this question. Apparently these can be symptoms of Phenergan medication. I'm pretty sure we have previously been told that WT had difficulty falling asleep and staying asleep? I'll do a search and see if my memory is correct. Here from Searching for Spiderman.

 

[31550]

View attachment 2171831

FGM apparently asked FM the morning WT went missing if she thought he had ADHD. I can only surmise he was displaying symptoms of "irritability, or challenging behaviour, or hyperactivity" which may have led her to ask this question. Apparently these can be symptoms of Phenergan medication. I'm pretty sure we have previously been told that WT had difficulty falling asleep and staying asleep? I'll do a search and see if my memory is correct. Here from Searching for Spiderman.

View attachment 2171846

Sounds like any other 3YO child to me.

 

[Wallace52]

Sounds like any other 3YO child to me.

I’m pretty sure most 3 year old boys present as hyperactive, which is probably why the paediatricians wait a little while longer before making their diagnosis!!

 

[Lady O]

Sounds like any other 3YO child to me.

And this, does it sound like any other 3yo?

 

[31550]

And this, does it sound like any other 3yo?

View attachment 2172041

No but not unexpected for a foster child.
I could tell a few stories more graphic than that. But it's irrelevant, none of this is the fault of the child.

Surely we are not trying to use William's developmental issues as some sort of mitigation or excuse to be used by those responsible for him going missing presumed dead? What's the connection?

Hey a 3YO kid in your care went missing! Yeah, but he was a biter and a bed-wetter!
Oh, ok that's all right then! Move on.

 

[CodyRose]

Was FD included in that?
Maybe her adoption had already been done.

If FD adoption had gone through would have it been so easy to remove her? IMO FD was still on the fostered till 18 situation.

 

[Lady O]

No but not unexpected for a foster child.
I could tell a few stories more graphic than that. But it's irrelevant, none of this is the fault of the child.

Surely we are not trying to use William's developmental issues as some sort of mitigation or excuse to be used by those responsible for him going missing presumed dead? What's the connection?

Hey a 3YO kid in your care went missing! Yeah, but he was a biter and a bed-wetter!
Oh, ok that's all right then! Move on.

Don't try and change this into something else.

What we were discussing was if he may have been given Phenergen, which is an antihistamine that has also been used to help children sleep. Latest view (just published recently) is that it is not recommended for children younger than 6 years.

"The PI and CMI documents have been updated to include the risks of psychiatric and central nervous system side effects in children under 6, including hyperactivity, aggression and hallucination. When high doses are given, these children may also experience difficulties in learning and understanding, including reversible cognitive deficit and intellectual disability."
I provided information from Ally Chumley's book Searching for Spiderman, which details some of the issues reported by the FPs.

I am not suggesting this could be "the fault of the child". What I am wondering, is could it be a reason for his behaviour. These side effects in small children have only just come to light.

 

[shorsky]

Sounds like any other 3YO child to me.

Agree ! It’s often not easy being a little person and navigating all the challenges of ‘growing up’.. . hence why good parenting comes with many challenges

I posed the question just a little way back exactly what FGM had asked, because I wasn’t sure she said ADHD . … maybe she said ADD or ODD . And I wondered what FGM would know about the topic as those diagnoses were not around in her child rearing days.

Little kids often get over-excited and even overwhelmed around that age as they are struggling between independence & still needing security. I wonder how much ‘calming’ there was before bed time, was there story reading etc.

If William was struggling with emotions , perhaps one cause may have been having to leave his bio-parents on access visits, and was just instructed to call them ‘bio’ etc, instead of being lovingly nurtured, I could understand him being extra restless, unrelaxed and resisting sleep.

 

[gymjam]

If FD adoption had gone through would have it been so easy to remove her? IMO FD was still on the fostered till 18 situation.

Once adoption is processed through the court thats it.

But the house and car would probably still have been bugged. So if the same behaviour existed that was the subject of the allegations in 2020 and FD had still spoken of her fear to return home to her teacher, then the teacher would still have had a legal obligation to report the matter as a probable domestic violence incident allegation. Police involved and DOC involved and would FD have been removed? Quite possibly imo maybe in the short term with counselling for all parties and maybe a graduated return process with close monitoring.

But that is all hypoyhetical.

 

[maggiethecat]

Lol

 

[gymjam]

Was FD included in that?
Maybe her adoption had already been done.

Yes for both children.

 

[gymjam]

 

[Awakening]

I can understand your anger and emotion about this, but IMO we can't let that prejudice our view of what may or may not have happened - we have to rely on the evidence.

The biggest problem I have right now is that there has not been a single acknowledgement of any responsibility or an "I'm sorry!" from the fosters. Sorry does not mean admission of liability, just an acknowledgement that YOU were responsible for keeping this child safe, and you failed in that duty. Fault or no fault, the fosters and FACS and the NSW Government have to own up that William disappeared on their watch. Just say sorry FFS. I can't get past this attitude and pretence that they are somehow victims in this.

That’s what gets me the most.

It’s quite the opposite. They hammer home that they are the victims in this. More than the bios, more than William.

Their PR company sucks.

 

[Wallace52]

Surely we are not trying to use William's developmental issues as some sort of mitigation or excuse to be used by those responsible for him going missing presumed dead?

No, you’re quite right.

But maybe he wasn’t the kind of child that the FM had ordered when she put in her request to FACS for a Pidgeon-Pair.

 

[Wallace52]

I can understand your anger and emotion about this, but IMO we can't let that prejudice our view of what may or may not have happened - we have to rely on the evidence.

The biggest problem I have right now is that there has not been a single acknowledgement of any responsibility or an "I'm sorry!" from the fosters. Sorry does not mean admission of liability, just an acknowledgement that YOU were responsible for keeping this child safe, and you failed in that duty. Fault or no fault, the fosters and FACS and the NSW Government have to own up that William disappeared on their watch. Just say sorry FFS. I can't get past this attitude and pretence that they are somehow victims in this.

They will never say sorry, because they’re not sorry. IMO.

Have they ever been remorseful? No.

 

[Wallace52]

If FD adoption had gone through would have it been so easy to remove her? IMO FD was still on the fostered till 18 situation.

No. It was already difficult as it was to remove her, and she was not adopted, still in care - and the fosters still went to court after she was taken away from them, trying to get her back.

I would have thought they would be grateful not to have to do her washing any more or to cook her dinner…..

 

[gymjam]

Don't try and change this into something else.

What we were discussing was if he may have been given Phenergen, which is an antihistamine that has also been used to help children sleep. Latest view (just published recently) is that it is not recommended for children younger than 6 years.

"The PI and CMI documents have been updated to include the risks of psychiatric and central nervous system side effects in children under 6, including hyperactivity, aggression and hallucination. When high doses are given, these children may also experience difficulties in learning and understanding, including reversible cognitive deficit and intellectual disability."
I provided information from Ally Chumley's book Searching for Spiderman, which details some of the issues reported by the FPs.

I am not suggesting this could be "the fault of the child". What I am wondering, is could it be a reason for his behaviour. These side effects in small children have only just come to light.

I believe the reasons for William and the other child's behaviour was the 'the care style' of both foster carers.

Wouldnt it have been great to put them individually through the same 'care style' that they forced these children of innocence through?