Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry CANCELLED!

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[CodyRose]

Of course it's best left to the experts, my opinion only is looking for answer to why she said what she did. It doesn't take an expert to recognise this is a bit off, as if she does have a history of dissociation and she's wondering if maybe she did do something and she just can't remember it.

'I don’t believe that if I had done anything to William that I would have tried to cover it up, I would own up to it. I just can’t see it in me.

Sounds like she is not sure

 

[31550]

Well if AMS is to be 100% believed (I don't think she should be, there must be doubt around all the recollections when so much happened so quickly), then FM has it wrong in speaking to her before the bus stop run etc.

You've said yourself FM can't have done the bus stop run and a drive between 10:40 and 10:56.

Nobody has to be 100% believed. But you can still apply a common sense filter. Two interactions with Sharpley does not make sense. Why would Sharpley remain at home for 15-20 minutes and do nothing after a distraught mother has told her a 3YO boy is missing? And then after 30 minutes go and knock on Savages door? And why wouldn't Sharpley remember FM visiting her twice?
If FM had already been to the bus stop why wouldn't she have said so to Sharpley when Sharpley told her to go there?

There is no reason to assume two interactions when neither FM nor Sharpley have described it happening that way.

 

[CodyRose]

I would say she definitely has a some sort of psychological or cognitive issue.

I might be politically correct and say she doesn’t seem to be neurotypical.

The way she speaks, and the way she thinks, it’s not normal.

Her memory in particular, it’s really patchy and it’s like she is stepping outside of herself and looking at herself from a distance. I don’t understand what is going on there.

The FGM used to switch tenses when she spoke, might be a learned way of speaking

 

[CodyRose]

Because missing persons units in the police do proof of life checks and they’ve probably been checking for proof of life for William Tyrrell for just over 10 years and I’m guessing there is no proof of life.

But that is something for the Coroners Court to determine, I suppose?

Also no proof of death that us sleuths know of

 

[CodyRose]

Of course it's best left to the experts, my opinion only is looking for answer to why she said what she did. It doesn't take an expert to recognise this is a bit off, as if she does have a history of dissociation and she's wondering if maybe she did do something and she just can't remember it.

'I don’t believe that if I had done anything to William that I would have tried to cover it up, I would own up to it. I just can’t see it in me.

“The perfect me” IMO

 

[CodyRose]

Does anyone remember what the Section 14 Mental Health defence turned up about the FM? Did she get labelled with depression and PTSD at that point? Thanks

People with PTSD can have dissociative episodes

 

[Lady O]

Dissociative disorders - Symptoms and causes

www.mayoclinic.org

Some of these seem to fit in the way she speaks about her actions as if she is watching a movie about what happened.

 

[stormbird]

IMO, if there was no evidence found in the 2021 searches, police have proved to a required standard that:

• William did not fall from the verandah and lie injured or dead below
• his body was not carried in the FGM's car in a position which was suspicious e.g. in the boot or on the floor
• his body and clothes and shoes were not hidden at the Cobb & Co intersection or between there and Benaroon Drive along Batar Creek Rd
• his body and clothes and shoes were not carried along by creek water and deposited downstream
• his remains were not hidden under the garage floor or in the water/septic tanks at FGM's

And if there was no evidence found in the 2018 searches:

• William's body and clothes and shoes were not lost or hidden in the areas closest to Benaroon Drive and Ellendale Crescent

If all of that is correct, it leads to the conclusion that either major parts of the hypothesis about FM's drive need to be changed (e.g. cause or location of William's death; vehicle used; destination of drive) or something else happened instead. MOO.

 

[Earls Smother]

Nobody has to be 100% believed. But you can still apply a common sense filter. Two interactions with Sharpley does not make sense. Why would Sharpley remain at home for 15-20 minutes and do nothing after a distraught mother has told her a 3YO boy is missing? And then after 30 minutes go and knock on Savages door? And why wouldn't Sharpley remember FM visiting her twice?
If FM had already been to the bus stop why wouldn't she have said so to Sharpley when Sharpley told her to go there?

There is no reason to assume two interactions when neither FM nor Sharpley have described it happening that way.

Then how do you explain the drive being after 10:40?

That would have to mean that AMS, FF, Savage, FGM etc. were in a circle with their heads up each other's anuses. How can not one of them have seen her drive if AMS' version is accurate?

 

[Kurve]

Dissociative disorders - Symptoms and causes

www.mayoclinic.org

Some of these seem to fit in the way she speaks about her actions as if she is watching a movie about what happened.

It might be an explanation for quite a bit around this case as it pertains to the FM.

 

[31550]

Then how do you explain the drive being after 10:40?

That would have to mean that AMS, FF, Savage, FGM etc. were in a circle with their heads up each other's anuses. How can not one of them have seen her drive if AMS' version is accurate?

The simplest explanation is that the drive was well before 10.30. Sharpley never saw the drive because she was still inside her house. No issue with AMS version.

 

[Wallace52]

It might be an explanation for quite a bit around this case as it pertains to the FM.

Absolutely. But what if she had a dissociative disorder and it started prior to 2014?

And that’s another consideration.

Also, she may be just completely neurotypical and might forget things, embellish and maybe lie sometimes. Like we all do, sometimes.

 

[Wallace52]

Also no proof of death that us sleuths know of

I would say if he were still alive the Where’s William campaign would be publishing the new image of William, of what he would look like now, but they’re not.

 

[31550]

I would say if he were still alive the Where’s William campaign would be publishing the new image of William, of what he would look like now, but they’re not.

IMO they have already crossed the line of decency and sensitivity. No need to keep running further past it.

 

[31550]

Absolutely. But what if she had a dissociative disorder and it started prior to 2014?

And that’s another consideration.

Also, she may be just completely neurotypical and might forget things, embellish and maybe lie sometimes. Like we all do, sometimes.

 

[Kurve]

IMO, if there was no evidence found in the 2021 searches, police have proved to a required standard that:

• William did not fall from the verandah and lie injured or dead below
• his body was not carried in the FGM's car in a position which was suspicious e.g. in the boot or on the floor
• his body and clothes and shoes were not hidden at the Cobb & Co intersection or between there and Benaroon Drive along Batar Creek Rd
• his body and clothes and shoes were not carried along by creek water and deposited downstream
• his remains were not hidden under the garage floor or in the water/septic tanks at FGM's

And if there was no evidence found in the 2018 searches:

• William's body and clothes and shoes were not lost or hidden in the areas closest to Benaroon Drive and Ellendale Crescent

If all of that is correct, it leads to the conclusion that either major parts of the hypothesis about FM's drive need to be changed (e.g. cause or location of William's death; vehicle used; destination of drive) or something else happened instead. MOO.

If there was no evidence of William found in either searches, all it means is that they found none. It isn't proof he was never there.

 

[Wallace52]

FM's recorded phone conversation with a friend:

'I don’t believe that if I had done anything to William that I would have tried to cover it up, I would own up to it. I just can’t see it in me.

'I mean how much time did I have, it’s just impossible, no evidence. Apparently there were smells of bodies in ditches and pathways.'

Evidence of her narcissism:

1. Self-Exoneration: FM asserts she would not have covered up anything and would have owned up to it. This displays a sense of moral superiority.
2. Lack of Self-Reflection: "I just can’t see it in me" suggests inability or unwillingness to consider that she might have flaws or could have done something wrong.
3. Defensiveness: The statement downplays the possibility of involvement by focusing on the lack of time and evidence, shifting attention away from self-scrutiny.

IMO

It's a weird way of looking at the world: "I don't believe I would have ...." instead of, "I didn't!"

I wonder if this conversation with a “friend” was actually a conversation with Clare Collins - the foster mothers “advocate.”

 

[Lady O]

Absolutely. But what if she had a dissociative disorder and it started prior to 2014?

And that’s another consideration.

Also, she may be just completely neurotypical and might forget things, embellish and maybe lie sometimes. Like we all do, sometimes.

I think she probably DID have mental health issues before 2014, as supposedly "SD was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and PTSD, and some of her mental ill-health relates to the “difficult relationship she had with her mother, so that would have occurred in childhood presumably. Then the current issues were related to "the loss of her mother in most recent years … in fairly difficult circumstances,” he said." We know nothing about any difficult circumstances involved with the loss of her Mother.

So, nothing to do with the loss of WT apparently.

 

[Earls Smother]

The simplest explanation is that the drive was well before 10.30. Sharpley never saw the drive because she was still inside her house. No issue with AMS version.

Ok, so then the order of FM's following recollections are wrong. She did all these things, but just not in the order given?

FFC ran to AMS’s house, asked if saw little boy in spiderman suit? , AMS said no, suggested bus stop on Crn Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd, FFC ran to bus stop , heard the “scream” , ran back to # 48 Benaroon Drive, got in FGM car & drove looking for WT, drove down Batar Ck Rd, thought he could not have gotten that far, went back to FGM house, ran inside & got her mobile phone, saw message from MFC, she ran out to driveway , just as MFC drove in & asked him “ Have you got William?” “ No , why would I have William?” . I can’t find him the FFC said. MFC took off frantically looking for William.

If she drove at 10:25ish, returning at 10:33ish it makes more sense.
Hurried drive, 8ish minutes to BCR and back.
Returns to just beat FF home and grabs her phone.
Then AMS interaction at 10:40
Then bus stop run.
Rings 000 at 10:56

So the police theory of bundle in boot, speak to neighbour's, then drive and dispose of body, is a pile of shit.

 

[31550]

Ok, so then the order of FM's following recollections are wrong. She did all these things, but just not in the order given?

FFC ran to AMS’s house, asked if saw little boy in spiderman suit? , AMS said no, suggested bus stop on Crn Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd, FFC ran to bus stop , heard the “scream” , ran back to # 48 Benaroon Drive, got in FGM car & drove looking for WT, drove down Batar Ck Rd, thought he could not have gotten that far, went back to FGM house, ran inside & got her mobile phone, saw message from MFC, she ran out to driveway , just as MFC drove in & asked him “ Have you got William?” “ No , why would I have William?” . I can’t find him the FFC said. MFC took off frantically looking for William.

If she drove at 10:25ish, returning at 10:33ish it makes more sense.
Hurried drive, 8ish minutes to BCR and back.
Returns to just beat FF home and grabs her phone.
Then AMS interaction at 10:40
Then bus stop run.
Rings 000 at 10:56

So the police theory of bundle in boot, speak to neighbour's, then drive and dispose of body, is a pile of shit.

Not understanding why you keep ignoring Sharpley's testimony.
She said she could hear a male voice calling for William in the FGM backyard when she met FM and was talking to her in her carport.
This indicates it all happened after 10:35. Except the drive. The drive must have been earlier.

 

[Kurve]

So the police theory of bundle in boot, speak to neighbour's, then drive and dispose of body, is a pile of shit.

Do we think the police would pull together a pile of shit, bundle it all up and send it to the ODPP with a recommendation for charges?

If that's what they did, it's another very, very big blunder.

 

[31550]

Do we think the police would pull together a pile of shit, bundle it all up and send it to the ODPP with a recommendation for charges?

Did the police recommend charges, or did they refer to the DPP to see whether the DPP recommended charges?
In any case the police asked the DPP to 'pause' their review of the proposed charges - and I think this was quite a few months ago (April?) when the coroner was getting ready to reopen the inquest (directions hearings being scheduled). Perhaps the police or the DPP smelled a bit of a turd in the brief, or perhaps someone realised they hadn't quite got their 'shit' together?

 

[shorsky]

So this is probably ridiculous but I’m brainstorming places the FM could have driven to (and back) between 10:35 and 10:57am on 12//9/14.

River Oaks Drive - 3 minutes.
The Old Coach Road - 8 minutes.
Cedar Loggers Lane - 7 minutes.

Are they ‘round trip’ times Wallace ?

What about if she went in the other direction ? I’m remembering her saying she turned Left, and was reminded that Batar Creek Rd was a Right turn.

‘Oh I can’t remember, I don’t know why I said that ‘

The article about the memorial said the area of bushland they were searching was 1 kilometre away from FGMs

 

[Earls Smother]

Not understanding why you keep ignoring Sharpley's testimony.
She said she could hear a male voice calling for William in the FGM backyard when she met FM and was talking to her in her carport.
This indicates it all happened after 10:35. Except the drive. The drive must have been earlier.

Is there something wrong with you?

That's literally what I said in what you replied to.

 

[CodyRose]

I think she probably DID have mental health issues before 2014, as supposedly "SD was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and PTSD, and some of her mental ill-health relates to the “difficult relationship she had with her mother, so that would have occurred in childhood presumably. Then the current issues were related to "the loss of her mother in most recent years … in fairly difficult circumstances,” he said." We know nothing about any difficult circumstances involved with the loss of her Mother.

So, nothing to do with the loss of WT apparently.

Cops should ask the sister about FM issues