Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry CANCELLED!

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[shorsky]

I think she did drive when she said she did, it is the police and/or the reporting of it that has confused things.

There simply had to be 2 interactions with AMS. The first brief one, where she then ran to the bus stop, must have been about 10:20-10:25.

Then after the drive (returning at 10:35), she went back into the street and saw AMS having the smoke. Went and spoke to her again, with the FF yelling in the background. Now AMS might not have stated this is exactly what happened, but it is fraught to just believe one neighbour's recollections as 100% accurate, when almost all the memories simply don't align with each other closely enough to paint an accurate picture.

It is simply not possible for her to have driven after a 10:40 interaction with AMS, given a) the other things she did, and b) the fact that not a single person saw her do it, despite being on high alert looking for a child.

It’s a fair bet that any and all interaction that morning between FM and AMS was drilled into by Police, as AMS was the first person ( outside of FM & FGM) to become aware that William was missing.

Even when FM was not a POI, I believe that AMS would’ve been encouraged to remember every little detail of the morning.

AMS testified at the first tranche of the Inquest. I don’t recall any mention of an earlier communication with FM……the first meeting was around 10.40am imo

 

[Earls Smother]

Do we think the police would pull together a pile of shit, bundle it all up and send it to the ODPP with a recommendation for charges?

If that's what they did, it's another very big blunder.

FM timeline of events is almost certainly not accurate. You have explained a potential reason for that with the PTSD, dissociation, amnesia etc.

The AMS and FM versions don't align. If the police believe AMS as totally reliable, then the FM has "lied" about when she drove. i.e. she drove before speaking to AMS, not after.

I just hope the police haven't based their perjury suspicion on that "lie". Obviously if it was a lie, there would be a nefarious reason for the lie, which would be what they base moving the corpse on.

I think they've totally ballsed it up.

 

[shorsky]

Then how do you explain the drive being after 10:40?

That would have to mean that AMS, FF, Savage, FGM etc. were in a circle with their heads up each other's anuses. How can not one of them have seen her drive if AMS' version is accurate?

The drive was Before 10.30

imo

 

[Wallace52]

I think she probably DID have mental health issues before 2014, as supposedly "SD was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and PTSD, and some of her mental ill-health relates to the “difficult relationship she had with her mother, so that would have occurred in childhood presumably. Then the current issues were related to "the loss of her mother in most recent years … in fairly difficult circumstances,” he said." We know nothing about any difficult circumstances involved with the loss of her Mother.

So, nothing to do with the loss of WT apparently.

Yeah no, I doubt WT would have factored into that equation.

 

[Wallace52]

Do we think the police would pull together a pile of shit, bundle it all up and send it to the ODPP with a recommendation for charges?

If that's what they did, it's another very, very big blunder.

Kurve! It’s not hard to brush your hair before you leave the house lol

 

[stormbird]

If there was no evidence of William found in either searches, all it means is that they found none. It isn't proof he was never there.

I think forensic testing techniques might actually be now good enough to find any trace if he had ever been lying injured or dead below the verandah, or ever under the garage floor, or ever in the boot or on the floor of FGM's car, or ever in the bushland that was searched by cadaver dogs. I don't know whether any trace could remain in the tanks - maybe not? And it's possible he might have been removed by wild dogs or other feral animals, which I suppose would not be detectable?

 

[Underarrest_]

Absolutely. But what if she had a dissociative disorder and it started prior to 2014?

And that’s another consideration.

Also, she may be just completely neurotypical and might forget things, embellish and maybe lie sometimes. Like we all do, sometimes.

We don’t really know if FM experienced trauma as a child and we know there was domestic violence within FM/FF’s home which cause dissociation.
In saying that, perpetrators of abuse can also have dissociation.

 

[shorsky]

It might be an explanation for quite a bit around this case as it pertains to the FM.

This is just a generalist mention in regards to people who have been responsible for the death of someone, either deliberately or accidentally.

While most public awareness would be of he challenges often faced by members of defence forces who attended war zones, much study has been done into the impact on others across the full range of ‘situations’

PTSD rears up as people struggle mentally with ‘traumatic events’. There many symptoms & no ‘one size fits all. ….dissociative disorder can come in there.

Also to consider is a sub-branch known as PITS (perpetration-induced traumatic stress) which is a form of PTSD where the person is involved (or believes they are involved) in creating the traumatic situation.

 

[31550]

Is there something wrong with you?

That's literally what I said in what you replied to.

No you literally said, "if she drove at 10.25".

Why include this as a possibility at all?

 

[31550]

This is just a generalist mention in regards to people who have been responsible for the death of someone, either deliberately or accidentally.

While most public awareness would be of he challenges often faced by members of defence forces who attended war zones, much study has been done into the impact on others across the full range of ‘situations’

PTSD rears up as people struggle mentally with ‘traumatic events’. There many symptoms & no ‘one size fits all. ….dissociative disorder can come in there.

Also to consider is a sub-branch known as PITS (perpetration-induced traumatic stress) which is a form of PTSD where the person is involved (or believes they are involved) in creating the traumatic situation.

Don't forget that FM may have suffered or have been suffering PTSD from a previous traumatic event in her life. Say 5 years earlier?

 

[Kurve]

FM timeline of events is almost certainly not accurate. You have explained a potential reason for that with the PTSD, dissociation, amnesia etc.

The AMS and FM versions don't align. If the police believe AMS as totally reliable, then the FM has "lied" about when she drove. i.e. she drove before speaking to AMS, not after.

I just hope the police haven't based their perjury suspicion on that "lie". Obviously if it was a lie, there would be a nefarious reason for the lie, which would be what they base moving the corpse on.

I think they've totally ballsed it up.

Is she lying if she'd dissociated?

 

[Wallace52]

Is she lying if she'd dissociated?

It would depend on her applying for a section 14 defence if she was charged.

As it was she was charged with lying to the NSWCC and her defence didn’t apply a section 14 to that did they?

 

[Kurve]

It would depend on her applying for a section 14 defence if she was charged.

As it was she was charged with lying to the NSWCC and her defence didn’t apply a section 14 to that did they?

Her defence was that she wasn't deliberately lying, in that situation she didn't need a mental health defence and she was acquitted.

 

[Wallace52]

Her defence was that she wasn't deliberately lying, in that situation she didn't need a mental health defence and she was acquitted.

That’s right. So your question is complex and would depend on which defence a persons lawyer would recommend they pursue.

IMO

 

[Underarrest_]

Don't forget that FM may have suffered or have been suffering PTSD from a previous traumatic event in her life. Say 5 years earlier?

Yes it could also be a result of having a child in her care abducted.

 

[Kurve]

I think she probably DID have mental health issues before 2014, as supposedly "SD was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and PTSD, and some of her mental ill-health relates to the “difficult relationship she had with her mother, so that would have occurred in childhood presumably. Then the current issues were related to "the loss of her mother in most recent years … in fairly difficult circumstances,” he said." We know nothing about any difficult circumstances involved with the loss of her Mother.

So, nothing to do with the loss of WT apparently.

Complex PTSD is a possibility as well, which means the beginnings may be way back.

 

[Wallace52]

Complex PTSD is a possibility as well, which means the beginnings may be way back.

I can’t imagine growing up in Papua New Guinea would have been super easy for a little Australian girl.

IMO

 

[Kurve]

That’s right. So your question is complex and would depend on which defence a persons lawyer would recommend they pursue.

IMO

Her mental health defence for assaults etc imo was in preparation for pleading guilty, she had no intentions of pleading guilty to lying to the NSWCC.

Had she been convicted of lying there, we might have seen mental health raised to mitigate the penalty.

 

[Underarrest_]

I can’t imagine growing up in Papua New Guinea would have been super easy for a little Australian girl.

IMO

I thought FM was a toddler when she came to Australia or was she older?
Regardless, anything could have happened in those years in Papua New Guinea or in later years.

 

[31550]

Yes it could also be a result of having a child in her care abducted.

I was talking about her actions leading up to William going 'missing'. Her previous trauma from a previous incident may have influenced her behaviour that morning.

We don't know that William was abducted. Police don't seem to think so, and there is no direct evidence that he was.

But we do know that FM suffered a traumatic experience earlier in her life. Not sure if we are permitted to discuss details here.

 

[js47]

She alerted Sharpley after the FF came home.

That’s what we are missing.

So William was still at the house somewhere?

 

[Wallace52]

So William was still at the house somewhere?

If I knew that I might be $1Mil richer, but I’ve no idea.

 

[Wallace52]

But we do know that FM suffered a traumatic experience earlier in her life. Not sure if we are permitted to discuss details here.

We are not.

 

[31550]

So William was still at the house somewhere?

No he had already been driven away. IMO

 

[31550]

We are not.