Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry Current

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[passball]

Gymjam about the shoe I will listen to the FF walk through again.

It's in there.
He also says that he discovered the trail to the cemetery as if he didn't know about it but the others were waiting for him to come home to go on a WALK to the cemetery to place the cards/drawings the kid

 

[shorsky]

In that case it would be quite telling for the FF to use two different routes for the two trips. Excuse could be the roadworks? But that doesn't make a lot of sense.
Why leave this out of his narrative?

Uummm .. it’s been said by a couple of people that FF meeting finished at 9.30 am - do we know if that is fact ?

Because if so it leaves a big gap of time, enough possibly to meet someone & still pick up a script at 10.18 am, and still leave the obligatory ‘ home in 5 ‘ text.

 

[shorsky]

Have we ruled out the FM could not have taken two drives after 9.37? And does anybody know if the FGM Mazda 3 had GPS?

Personally I believe there was one drive, and it could have started as early as 9.50am.

I think it’s also possible that it may not have ended until close to 10.30am.

Does anyone know what time AMS arrived home from taking her youngest to playschool or whatever it was ?

 

[shorsky]

The FF left @ 08:55 ( just found this in my notes , stated by Detective Laura Beacroft @ the inquest ) .

Thanks for all this valuable info, however I think Detective Beacroft may be a little out on her time.

FF was clocked at 8.40 am Tennis Court CCTV time. It was originally said that clock was 9 mins slow, meaning it was actually 8.49 am when he went past the Tennis Courts.

Now at this latest tranche of the Inquest, we suddenly hear it said the clock was 14 mins slow ! On that basis it it becomes that he passed the Tennis Courts at 8.54 am.

I’m really intrigued as to the change in the clock times. There is a signed statement from Mr Donohue where he amended his times on the basis of Police advice that the clock was 9 minutes slow.

IMO, time is quite critical in this case, so discrepancies like this appear sloppy, unless clearly explained. e.g. did the battery get slower over time until it became 14 mins slow ? - that doesn’t mean it was 14 mins slow when the activities in question were occurring.

 

[shorsky]

FM said she saw the cars @07:30. Anne Maree walked some of her kids to the bus stop @ 08:10, saw no cars ( I suggest cars had left ) She drove another child to to pre-school @ 08:40. She reversed out & saw no cars at that time either.

Detective Beacroft made a point to say that Anne Maree was not outside to see the cars before 08:10.

I'm not undermining anyone, just point out the fact she had not been outside to see the alleged cars that the FM said she saw @ 07:30, hence the cars cannot 100% be ruled out as not being there!

If you think that's defending the FM than that's your assumption.

Was it stated at what stage that morning FM saw the cars - I heard something like she woke up & pulled back the curtains…. was she looking at a bird or something, and then she saw these 2 cars ?

 

[shorsky]

Opportunistic means that.
Sees an opportunity and acts on it. Not planned or seeked out.
Example turning onto Elendale st, sees child at end of slope so drives further up instead of turning into Elendale, asks William if he’s seen a puppy, William comes closer, put in car, car drives away.

Foster Parents were adamant that William wouldn’t wander away, always stayed close etc. . But for him to be abducted he had to wander (so their statement flies in the face of their belief imo )
He had to leave the house confines and go close to the road / boundary of the property.
(And let’s discount the fact that Police say there was no scent of him outside the boundary - for whatever reason, dogs may not have had a good enough scent to track etc. )

So - if William had been in a big lot of trouble and was locked outside, do we think he maybe got fed-up, got very brave, and decided to go find daddy.

 

[shorsky]

Mazda 3’s don’t have GPS. Oh rats, I am sort of wrong.



Two phone calls, one drive.

The FD would have noticed her driving if she went out twice IMO.

The fact that FD didn’t notice FM driving at all is very fortunate for the FM but two drives and she would have been pushing her luck.

I drive a 2014 Mazda 3 and it has factory fitted GPS

 

[InTheBleachers]

It was a relative who was there on Thursday. FGM was recovering from an illness. Others were helping to take care of her. I do not have a link as proof of who was there. I will have to go back through notes to see how I know that, when I have more time I will do that.

I found my reference. It was in Geoff Owen's testimony from the inquest. He said he rang the FGM's house on the Thursday and again on the Friday. When he rang on Thursday he said he spoke to FGM's daughter. Not FM as she wasn't there yet. Might have been a daughter-in-law?

FGM recovering from an illness was mentioned in an A Current Affair episode from 24th September 2014. This episode. I can't find the link to the episode on their website as it is so old. Maybe someone else can find it.

 

[gymjam]

Thats a little incorrect, because I have the development applications for the original dwelling construction and they are dated 1990.

I think you will find that I had referred to the initial build of the 48 Benaroon property which WAS 1980s.

The docs you posted have the date 1990 so there may have been a bit of extra work design proposed and applications lodged after the prepared and authorized plan doc attached to FM march 2015 statement that was used by for her to mark places and articles of interest on that attached plan.

I didnt appreciate your writing the tone of your reply the way you did which included the word bullxxxx. A bit of courtesy would have been appreciated thankyou.

I did appreciate seeing the documents you attached. Thankyou.

 

[gymjam]

I found my reference. It was in Geoff Owen's testimony from the inquest. He said he rang the FGM's house on the Thursday and again on the Friday. When he rang on Thursday he said he spoke to FGM's daughter. Not FM as she wasn't there yet. Might have been a daughter-in-law?

FGM recovering from an illness was mentioned in an A Current Affair episode from 24th September 2014. This episode. I can't find the link to the episode on their website as it is so old. Maybe someone else can find it.

View attachment 2168894

I believe he referred to 'the other daughter' which would be FM sister. Apparently it came out she had been at Kendall ex Sydney during that leadup week.

I always considered she may have paid a visit to Kendall to put her name on some of her deceased father's artefacts after hearing her sister was going to Kendall to help their mother sort through household things ready for the family divide up after the issuing of property sale contracts which were due to be signed the week commencing the 8 Sept according to what FM stated in March 2015.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I drive a 2014 Mazda 3 and it has factory fitted GPS

That's interesting. Thank you..I had thought the thread covered that in part 1 and concluded no for some reason.

If FGM had car they should have been able to determine where it went. GPS location.

 

[31550]

That's interesting. Thank you..I had thought the thread covered that in part 1 and concluded no for some reason.

If FGM had car they should have been able to determine where it went. GPS location.

I believe FGM car was older than 2014 - possibly 2009?
Even if GPS was available it was an optional extra, certainly not fitted to all models.
And even if it was, the type of GPS fitted to consumer vehicles typically kept very limited geolocation history if any.

So, no I don't reckon they could see where the car had been driven from its GPS. Not in 2014, and certainly not in 2021.

 

[31550]

Maybe he did forget his script and drove back for it.

Got a bit twitchy for his meds maybe and forgot it, as Kurve alluded to.

I have wondered about the meds and script.
He needs the script on him to get the meds (usually).
If he didn't have the script then there would have been phone calls made at the chemist to confirm his script, and these would be part of his record and alibi. So he had the script. And no e-scripts in 2014 AFAIK.
I find it unusual that he would have his script on him, and no meds.
Understand in the hurry to leave he (or FM) may have forgotten to pack his meds. But remembered to take his script.
My inference is that he had already run out completely of his meds, possibly before the Thursday. Thats why he was "really keen" to get his script filled.
This might have influenced his behaviour on the trip up and that morning?

(Except that 'everyone was happy', of course.)

 

[gymjam]

Wait what? He mumbled on over 8 am? That is the same crap the FGM went on about. Do you have the detail?

Have sent message to our mod tried to send one to you too.

 

[31550]

Uummm .. it’s been said by a couple of people that FF meeting finished at 9.30 am - do we know if that is fact ?

Because if so it leaves a big gap of time, enough possibly to meet someone & still pick up a script at 10.18 am, and still leave the obligatory ‘ home in 5 ‘ text.

I believe the meeting ended closer to 9:56.
gymjam posted details a little while back, but it's also in the FF transcript.
He set the meeting up to commence at 9:30 (with the other party) , but started it early at 9:17 to make sure the tech was working.
According to his transcript the call lasted 39 minutes which takes us to 9:56.
Then he's got to go into the pharmacy and wait for his script to be filled.
If the EFT transaction is 10:18 that only gives 24 minutes to do stuff.

 

[31550]

Personally I believe there was one drive, and it could have started as early as 9.50am.

I think it’s also possible that it may not have ended until close to 10.30am.

Does anyone know what time AMS arrived home from taking her youngest to playschool or whatever it was ?

Much earlier than the two times above, but would have been inside her house probably most of the time until the FM went to see her, at which time I think it was reported she was in the carport drinking a coke or having a smoke.

 

[31550]

Hahaha now you throw in ‘normal’

I like to be accurate and precise.

Before she waffles on about the vague sleeping arrangements the previous night, she introduces her own room. "This is my room and I slept here alone" Why would anyone deem it necessary to say that? There are also personal items visible on both sides of her bed.

Personal items? Slept alone?
So 'everyone WAS happy'!

 

[LRitz]

Someone should tell the fosters that, considering they’re convicted of assault and stalking and intimidation of a little girl in their care.

Domestic violence comes in so many forms: Coercive control, physical abuse, verbal abuse, psychological abuse, sexual abuse, intimidation, destruction of property, theft of property, arson, hurting the persons animals/pets. And then there is neglect and withholding things like washing of the person’s clothes and not providing a child with the basic essentials such as underwear.

Obviously the fosters have only been convicted of assault and stalk/intimidate, not the whole list above.

And both of the fosters had Blue Cards.
The system is well and truly broken.

If we are going to have a register for CSA offenders we may as well look at the process for Blue Cards too.

Not providing a child with basic essentials; this could include not providing food.

William should have been under better protection from FACS. With recent significant bruise to his face, that had to be reported to FACS, and losing weight (at least suspected by bio mother , and mother's intuition should not be ignored), and fosters saying they were not coping.....but nothing done. And here we are 10 years later.
Photo comparison. i do not know date of photo below. i think IMO, Willian looks nearly like a different child, less well, thinner, and not happy in the roar photo .

 

[LRitz]

I’ve seen the cat boarding receipt from the eftpos machine.

I’ve seen the daycare sign out sheet and one of the rooms has the FF signature on it. He was there for pickup after the cat drop off.

iirc foster dad picked up the sister and foster mum picked up William.

She actually forgot to sign him out on the sign out sheet on the 11th and had to sign for him after he was already…. Well, you know….when they returned to Sydney.

Thanks. So the FF was seen at the day care. This is confirmed?

The receipt and signature are just paper. i have done childcare pick ups and usually a bit chaotic. Would the staff remember. Just want to check. Assume nothing.

 

[gymjam]

Uummm .. it’s been said by a couple of people that FF meeting finished at 9.30 am - do we know if that is fact ?

Because if so it leaves a big gap of time, enough possibly to meet someone & still pick up a script at 10.18 am, and still leave the obligatory ‘ home in 5 ‘ text.

All the details I posted are FACT. Cant post copy of original transcript due to restrictions.

 

[31550]

Not providing a child with basic essentials; this could include not providing food.

William should have been under better protection from FACS. With recent significant bruise to his face, that had to be reported to FACS, and losing weight (at least suspected by bio mother , and mother's intuition should not be ignored), and fosters saying they were not coping.....but nothing done. And here we are 10 years later.
Photo comparison. i do not know date of photo below. i think IMO, Willian looks nearly like a different child, less well, thinner, and not happy in the roar photoView attachment 2168930 .

Looking at those photos rips my heart out. Can only imagine what his real parents went through and are going through every day. Should be such a special and wonderful time for little boys that age. Brings back really strong memories for me. Poor little kid never had a chance did he? I am still gutted and I never knew or met William or his family. And it's been 10 years. And no answers. Nobody held accountable. Not even a 'sorry'. FMD.

 

[gymjam]

Uummm .. it’s been said by a couple of people that FF meeting finished at 9.30 am - do we know if that is fact ?

Because if so it leaves a big gap of time, enough possibly to meet someone & still pick up a script at 10.18 am, and still leave the obligatory ‘ home in 5 ‘ text.

He was captured by independant cctv source not known but possibly Woolworths or the shopping complex he was parked there until he departed Lakewood. Khodary Pharmacy was in view of where he had parked in Woolies carpark so he did not need to drive elsewhere in Lakewood. In statement. The interviewing detectives clarified where he had parked with him on 14th. It was noted during this ERISP interview at 48 that his vehicle was not present at 48. FF stated he didnt know where his wife was at the time and he assumed she had taken the vehicle.

Details are FACT.

 

[Awakening]

I found my reference. It was in Geoff Owen's testimony from the inquest. He said he rang the FGM's house on the Thursday and again on the Friday. When he rang on Thursday he said he spoke to FGM's daughter. Not FM as she wasn't there yet. Might have been a daughter-in-law?

FGM recovering from an illness was mentioned in an A Current Affair episode from 24th September 2014. This episode. I can't find the link to the episode on their website as it is so old. Maybe someone else can find it.

View attachment 2168894

This is really interesting. Perhaps this daughter stayed the night or was there again first thing Friday morning.

 

[Kurve]

As the transcript of the FF interview can't be posted in here, we need to move on and work on information that is publicly available.

 

[31550]

As the transcript of the FF interview can't be posted in here, we need to move on and work on information that is publicly available.

Can we quote sections of what we 'believe' might be in the FF transcript?